(12-02-2015, 12:16 AM)anagogy Wrote:

(12-01-2015, 11:26 PM)Aion Wrote: Hmm, I dunno, I see the octave structure itself as being a generation of the Logos, so I imagine that the Logos is focused in the entire octave at once. In fact, I might even suggest that we are the Logos focusing on the 'lower' densities and hence the whole sub-Logoi thing. However, to the view of the Logos, I think it is 8D.

I agree that we are the Logos focusing on the lower densities.  I see everything as consciousness.  The Logos, to me, is just a specific focusing of consciousness.

(12-01-2015, 11:26 PM)Aion Wrote: I think we perhaps have a different way of viewing it. For me what you describe as 8D is the attributes I put with 1D. I think 1D is actually the most undifferentiated density. The whole octave structure is, to me, a differentiation of the intelligent energy which moves through the octave, forming in to entities which generate thought-forms and then which unify again but at 8D they are united and differentiated whereas in 1D they are united and undifferentiated. I thus see these as the infinite pathways through which that which is potential becomes kinetic. The whole octave structure from 'top to bottom' is like a battery and machine, generating entities through kinetic activity of intelligent energy.

My conceptualization of 8D is completely formless.  It could also be looked at as the "container" for the rest of the densities.  All form exists within the formless.  Sort of like the concept of an archetypal apple.  The archetypal apple is a compilation of all apples.  A specific apple, with specific characteristics unique unto itself, is simply a cross section through the archetypal "form".  So I see 8D as the archetypal container for all conceivable specific forms.    

My understanding of 1D is that it already innately possesses a degree of differentiation -- that being the elements of earth, fire, wind, and water.  Or alternatively, we can call them by their scientifically designated names: solids, plasmas, gases, and liquids.  The four states of matter.

One thing I can say, as a similarity to your point of view (maybe) is that I see 1D as "very close" to 8D.  Both 1D and 7D are extremely close to 8D but on opposite sides of it so to speak.  Another characteristic that I ascribe to is that the densities are constructed in the order from higher density down to the lower density firstly in time/space (greater to lesser), but then appear to go from 1D to 7D in space/time (lesser to greater).

(12-01-2015, 11:26 PM)Aion Wrote: I believe, however, that the universe moves from the finest and most sophisticated, to the least and then back again. So I think the Logos is the complete 8D unified octave, whole and One, both differentiated and undifferentiated. At the undifferentiated end lies intelligent infinity. At the differentiated end lies the Logos which is experiencing all of the potentials within the Creator.

In my view of the cosmology, the 8th density is neither sophisticated nor its opposite.  In a lot of ways, my perspective is polar opposite to yours because I view 1D as the most specific and differentiated level of expression, and the greatest expression of "separation", which is cosmic reflection of the idea of "unconsciousness", and 7D is the greatest expression of "awakeness" and the 8th density is like neither because it does not possess levels.  Or another way to look at it in my view: 7D and 1D represent two different "poles" of a magnet and 8D is like the magnet itself -- the unifier of the poles.  

(12-01-2015, 11:26 PM)Aion Wrote: Thus, I see the evolution of entities through the octave ad being the way in which our Logos experiences the Creator and so I believe the Logoi are actually moving through the 'next' octave.

I see Logoi as transitioning to the next octave as well.  Allow me to explain.  An octave, in my view, is a system of seven.  At least, that is how Ra defined it.  On the 8th note, the next system of 7 occurs.

Having said that, I see the 7th density Logos not completely dissolving across the boundary of the octave.  It retains those distortions considered valuable additions to itself, and the rest are dissolved across the boundary of the octave (these are the so called "refinements on the One Original Thought").  I see the 8th density as both the fundamental base state of consciousness, as well as a window of infinite possibility that the conscious Logos passes through to transform itself.  So to put it in plain speak: the Logos merely transforms into a new set of seven after passing through the octave.

A good analogy would be: us, with our conscious minds, dipping into the wellspring of our unconscious minds and its vast potential, and coming back out with greater resources as a result of tapping that infinite potential.  The octave density, thus, in my view is similar to the conscious Logos' unconscious mind, though I really don't like the word "unconscious mind" because it gives all sorts of incorrect connotations (i.e. it is not actually unconscious in the traditional sense of the word).

(12-02-2015, 08:26 PM)Aion Wrote: If we could strip away the concept of 'ordering' when it comes to the densities and the way they are 'numbered' I think we would find we have almost an identical conception and would attribute the same concepts the same description.

The image I see is the same, we just use the terminology differently I think.

I actually believe in a 'zero state' which would be like 0D and that would be the 'magnet' as you describe. I view the octave kind of like a mobius strip. There is no actual 'break' between this octave and the next, that's just an illusion. That's why I believe the Logos never dissolves and is actually an eternal, permanent sense of self which the Creator itself is. I believe the Logos is the only sense of self which exists within the Creator. Thus, when one dissolves in to the Creator they become a pure Logos.

I do not believe this to be differentiation though. It's the unified sense of self. Thus, I think only entities dissolve in to the Creator but the Creator never dissolves.

28.15 Wrote:Questioner: Now, as the major galaxy is created, and I am assuming all of its densities— I am assuming all— there are eight densities created when this major galaxy is created. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities.

Quote:37.6 Questioner: In that case, we’ll go ahead with the questions we have here continuing the last session. You said that each third-density entity has an higher self in the sixth density which is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex of the entity as needed. Does this higher self also evolve in growth through the densities beginning with the first density, and does each higher self have a corresponding higher self advanced in densities beyond it?
Ra: I am Ra. To simplify this concept is our intent. The higher self is a manifestation given to the late sixth-density mind/body/spirit complex as a gift from its future selfness. The mid-seventh density’s last action before turning towards the allness of the Creator and gaining spiritual mass is to give this resource to the sixth-density self, moving as you measure time in the stream of time.

This self, the mind/body/spirit complex of late sixth density, has then the honor/duty of using both the experiences of its total living bank or memory of experienced thoughts and actions, and using the resource of the mind/body/spirit complex totality left behind as a type of infinitely complex thought-form.

In this way you may see your self, your higher self or Oversoul, and your mind/body/spirit complex totality as three points in a circle. The only distinction is that of your time/space continuum. All are the same being.

(12-02-2015, 08:34 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(12-02-2015, 08:26 PM)Aion Wrote: If we could strip away the concept of 'ordering' when it comes to the densities and the way they are 'numbered' I think we would find we have almost an identical conception and would attribute the same concepts the same description.

The image I see is the same, we just use the terminology differently I think.

I actually believe in a 'zero state' which would be like 0D and that would be the 'magnet' as you describe. I view the octave kind of like a mobius strip. There is no actual 'break' between this octave and the next, that's just an illusion. That's why I believe the Logos never dissolves and is actually an eternal, permanent sense of self which the Creator itself is. I believe the Logos is the only sense of self which exists within the Creator. Thus, when one dissolves in to the Creator they become a pure Logos.

I do not believe this to be differentiation though. It's the unified sense of self. Thus, I think only entities dissolve in to the Creator but the Creator never dissolves.

Let me ask you a question, Aion, do you see each higher density as being the "container" for each lower density?  Like as in: 1 inside of 2 inside of 3 inside of 4 and so on, and 8th being the container for all?  Sort of like a matryoshka doll?  Because that is how I see it.

I think that all the densities, or rays, always exist within the oneness of creation.  Each vibratory level is an eternal aspect.  But just as you can't see the individual red, or individual green in white light because it all mixed together, in the white light that is the octave density, you can't see the violet layer that is the Logos.  Don't get me wrong, it is there, but there is no differentiation.  

So I see the octave density as just pure beingness.  It contains all potentiality.  All infinity is there.  But there is no differentiation.  Just white light of everythingness.  Awareness of awareness, but no awareness of self.  Self or "Logos" is in there, somewhere, it just doesn't "come out to play" till it, somehow, desires differentiation again.

(12-02-2015, 08:52 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I personally think there are infinite Octaves that are also in themselves like a matryoshka dolls, with their own infinite-manyness and experience of some separation among it. The Source being the central sun to each, and infinitely much more.

28.15 Wrote:Questioner: Now, as the major galaxy is created, and I am assuming all of its densities— I am assuming all— there are eight densities created when this major galaxy is created. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities.

The Source being what is in-between any beginning or ending at all present moment.

(12-02-2015, 08:57 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: We often talk about the mid-6D higher self. But what about the mid-7D self?

(12-02-2015, 09:08 PM)Aion Wrote: Basically I would correlate the core with the One Creator and the Logos. The Logos to me is the focusing of the Creator but it's first focus is itself in its infinite state and this is the octave density as you describe it. However, I believe this IS the Logos. The octave is an extension of the Logos, its body of experience.

The octave is the prism which differentiated light but the Logos created the Light through its focus (Love) upon the potentials within Intelligent Infinity, thereby making them kinetic as 'experience', giving 'knowledge' which means that new potentials emerge back to the One Infinite which then continued the cycle.

(12-02-2015, 09:40 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(12-02-2015, 08:52 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I personally think there are infinite Octaves that are also in themselves like a matryoshka dolls, with their own infinite-manyness and experience of some separation among it. The Source being the central sun to each, and infinitely much more.

28.15 Wrote:Questioner: Now, as the major galaxy is created, and I am assuming all of its densities— I am assuming all— there are eight densities created when this major galaxy is created. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities.

The Source being what is in-between any beginning or ending at all present moment.

To some extent I agree with you Elros, but with one caveat:

"28.16 Questioner: Are you saying then there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?

Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery."

So yes, I agree that there are infinite octaves, however, Ra says they are "cyclical" in nature.  I see the seven rays as simply "divisions" of infinity. Or rather, different types or categories of experiences in infinity.  So with every octave you are cutting up infinity into a bunch of pie slices.  You could theoretically cut it up into more than seven.  To what end, I do not know.  But no matter the slices, it is infinity each time being divided up.  Though, I tend to be of a the belief that there is seven in each octave, and that is what Ra has stated.

(12-02-2015, 09:43 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(12-02-2015, 09:08 PM)Aion Wrote: Basically I would correlate the core with the One Creator and the Logos. The Logos to me is the focusing of the Creator but it's first focus is itself in its infinite state and this is the octave density as you describe it. However, I believe this IS the Logos. The octave is an extension of the Logos, its body of experience.

The octave is the prism which differentiated light but the Logos created the Light through its focus (Love) upon the potentials within Intelligent Infinity, thereby making them kinetic as 'experience', giving 'knowledge' which means that new potentials emerge back to the One Infinite which then continued the cycle.

I guess the only thing I will say (just to clarify how I see it without necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with your thoughts) is that one of the basic reasons I see the "Logos" as one of the layers, rather than Beingness itself (or the "base material"), is that the Logos, or Self, has a relationship to the creation (that is to say, it is the "conscious and deliberate creator" of the created).  The octave density, which again, to me is analogous to the white light that contains all the other colors has no relationships within it, because there is no differentiation.  To me, relationship by its very necessity is a kind of relativity, which would be a kind of "branching off" of the absolute.  The white light is absolute and not relative.

I would call that intelligent infinity.  And I would call the Logos the violet ray focusing of that intelligent infinity, similar to how I would call us the yellow ray focusing of that infinity, or physical matter being the red ray focus of that infinity.  All colored focused layers have different roles in this cosmic play we call life.

When we are done 'focusing', we withdraw focus back into the white light of the absolute, or octave, and eventually (or instantaneously if you prefer, since there is no time) engage in perceptual differentiation again and this is the "next octave".

(12-02-2015, 01:21 PM)anagogy Wrote: I'm all for metaphysical speculation, but I guess I'm not seeing much "logic" to justify the reasoning behind it, which makes it hard for me to understand.  So it isn't a matter of whether one sounds more "odd" than another, rather, I feel like the speculation being offered is adding more densities but with no real "why" to it.  

That's my issue: complexity without any legitimate seeming reason.  But perhaps that is due to the way I "conceptualize" densities.  I simply see densities, or rays, as "different types" of experiences in infinity.  So adding more densities from that frame of reference is like taking a pie, which was cut into 7 pieces, and just arbitrarily cutting it up into more pieces.  Sure, you can do it.  But why?

You could argue that 7 was an arbitrary amount of pieces to cut it up into, originally, but I feel Ra explained the function of those 7 slices quite well, so I have little issue with them.  Also, they line up nicely with the colors of the electromagnetic spectrum/rainbow, so I guess I like that.

So more densities is fine, but what is the function of those additional densities?  What purpose do they serve?

(12-03-2015, 12:49 PM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: I'd rather you tell me why both ways can't be plausible or possible honestly.  You realize my view and yer view can exist simultaneously?

(12-03-2015, 12:49 PM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: Though you seem to think I'm 'adding'. I'm not doing anything of the sort.  I'm attaching labels to see how it works.