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RE: 4D Body Evolution - native - 03-30-2011
There's a question where Don asks why 4D entities look different than 3D/5D entities, which look similar. I thought that was interesting..Ra seemingly not wanting to infringe on free will by identifying any attributes.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Confused - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 02:39 AM)Derek ~ Wrote: There's a question where Don asks why 4D entities look different than 3D/5D entities, which look similar. I thought that was interesting..Ra seemingly not wanting to infringe on free will by identifying any attributes.
Thanks for bringing it up. One of the many ciphers in the LOO that guide my current deeply held non-gradualist thought. The clues to a particular question are all spread through out the LOO, like an ancient mystic puzzle.
Quote:90.5 Questioner: You stated previously that fifth-density entities bear a resemblance to those of us in third density on planet Earth but fourth density does not. Could you describe the fourth-density entities and tell me why they do not resemble us?
Ra: I am Ra. The description must be bated under the Law of Confusion. The cause for a variety of so-called physical vehicles is the remaining variety of heritages from second-density physical vehicular forms. The process of what you call physical evolution continues to hold sway into fourth density. Only when the ways of wisdom have begun to refine the power of what you may loosely call thought is the form of the physical complex manifestation more nearly under the direction of the consciousness.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
Quote:Quote:
43.16 Questioner: The physical vehicle that is used in fourth-density space/time is, I am assuming, quite similar to the one that is now used in third density. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The chemical elements used are not the same. However, the appearance is similar.
Ra's answer to 90.5 is a description of the complexities that make a direct answer to the question nearly impossible.
As an example of the answer:
We have seven billion* 3D bodies here now. If I ask 'WHY 6 billion don't resemble me" , Ra's answer would apply. " The cause for a variety of so-called physical vehicles is the remaining variety of heritages from second-density physical vehicular forms. The process of what you call physical evolution continues to hold sway".
I would say it was a poorly asked question with a logical answer.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - zenmaster - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 02:39 AM)Derek ~ Wrote: There's a question where Don asks why 4D entities look different than 3D/5D entities, which look similar.
My understanding is that those from Sirius, for example, would continue to evolve from 'trees' in 4th. Then, at 5th, have the ability to choose a form. I know that's not an answer, but obviously if at 5th one can choose a body-complex manifestation and at 3D and 4D one can not - then what is the actual question?
RE: 4D Body Evolution - unity100 - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 12:22 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Interestingly, the dual-activated types probably got harvested on a net negative planet or maybe less likely, but possible a planet that could not support 4D life at all. So you think 3D life here is 'negative'... I'd would imagine they'd be telling stories of war, subjugation, etc.
i remember that positive harvest in a net negative planet is not possible. there are negative, positive, or mixed ones. if the planet is net negative, it ends up being a negative planet. and the pull in a negative society on entities goes to near absolute, ra says. in negative environments its not possible to polarize positively.
so it wouldnt be possible for any 3-4d positive entities incarnating here, harvested on a net negative planet.
(03-30-2011, 09:17 AM)zenmaster Wrote:(03-30-2011, 02:39 AM)Derek ~ Wrote: There's a question where Don asks why 4D entities look different than 3D/5D entities, which look similar.
My understanding is that those from Sirius, for example, would continue to evolve from 'trees' in 4th. Then, at 5th, have the ability to choose a form. I know that's not an answer, but obviously if at 5th one can choose a body-complex manifestation and at 3D and 4D one can not - then what is the actual question?
they are not choosing a form. 5d entities are able to mold their body into form. not one time either.
===========================
however, what is worthy of note are the concepts of gradual generation of 4d bodies and the 4d sphere becoming solid and habitable.
4d sphere is not solid now. its not habitable. but it will be habitable soon. alright.
but, the bodies that are to inhabit this sphere will be created by gradual reproduction. then, at one point these entities will start inhabiting the 4d sphere.
if this is a physical sphere, at what point the increasingly 4d entities will start inhabiting it. how will this habitation happen. how will the switch to this physical plane happen. wont there be difficulty for entities that are on bodies on the threshold yet.
if, that is not in a sense of a physical sphere, then wont there be a lot of difficulties for increasingly 4d entities living in this still negative societal construct, while increasingly inhabiting the 4d sphere.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
Wouldn't a 40-/30+/30unharvestable split constitute a "net negative"? I don't know.
Anyway. This planet is apparently allotted for positive. Its such a mixture, and the harvest is small.
After harvest, the forced final harvest coming soon, the entire game will be different for the evolutionary bodies and the society they will experience.
I've always pictured Earth's percentages to be something like 70unharvestable/15-/15+
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Bring4th_Austin - 03-30-2011
Thank you all for participating in this thread, it feels nice to shed some light on a highly discussed issue. Nothing is definite, and there are no absolutes. This discussion has been about the evolution of 4D bodies. I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe a gradualist belief. I am simply dissecting Ra's words, and trying to connect the pieces, even point out inconsistencies (within the material or within my own mind).
(03-29-2011, 11:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I'm officially convinced now. I believe it's gradual. I'm beside myself at how fluidly this thread moved.
I'm a new man again. Broke through a new wall I built. Nothing left to do but enjoy the ride. Funny, my joy is found in the family need you just described as something propable to go away. I'm going to go live for them in any way I'm asked. There is no rush anymore.
One last question. Are my kids going to have a full chance to polarize? They don't really seem to be the 4D variety.
When first getting into the Ra material and all the metaphysical/New Age material, I held firm to an "instant ascension" belief because I wanted so bad for it to be true. My own guides (through my unique channeling experiences) managed to dissolve this belief and open my mind to the beauty of life as it is now.
I was simply speculating about the family issue...I have no clue if that's how a 4D society will think. I assume that, through nature of social synchronicity, only the appropriate number of entities will desire to have children (appropriate for sustainability on this planet). The desire to have a family will still exist, very strongly for some, but not for as many as we have now.
Ra states, during the transition, the chance for polarization will be great. Your children will find their way, and have plenty of chance to serve if they choose. And no doubt they will see some amazing things in their lifetime that will leave humanity awe-struck.
(03-30-2011, 01:55 AM)Confused Wrote: That nevertheless, I still hold to the non-gradualist thought, but non-dogmatically. If information, knowledge and evidence proves otherwise, I would immediately change my position. Moreover, what other option is there before truth? Truth does not care for what positions I hold personally. It is as it is.
Like I said, I'm really not trying to convince anyone of the gradualist vs. instant debate. I was just trying to discuss Ra's words about the evolution of 4D bodies.
Out of simple curiosity, taking into account a gradual 4D body evolution, how do you picture the rest of ascension happening? Our bodies are only a single part of this. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - hogey11 - 03-30-2011
Just a thought:
What if the difference between 3D and 4D is brain function?
Ra has differentiated between 3D/4D as 3D bodies being chemical in nature and the 4D body being "more electrical" in nature (not necessarily exclusively).
In our current 3D world, we know a few things about our brains. First, they are governed by chemicals that control our moods, thoughts, emotions, and other functions. Second, these chemicals can be controlled and manipulated by ourselves at times and we do so freely (and possibly not) more than ever before. We also know that perception is very powerful, and that in some ways, perception is reality (this is true more than ever as we delve into quantam physics).
What if 4D is a change in the brain? We evolve our control over our brains to the point that the chemical compounds can be controlled at will. The analogy I have used in a previous thread is that we will control our brains as we do our fingers here in 3D. The brain will no longer serve as a "medium" for the mind/body/spirit, as the veil is dissipated from the entity entering 4D. Our bodies currently use electricity through the nervous system/brain to control our very precise movements. I'm thinking the 4D "electrical body" refers to the expansion of such mastery to our brain like we have of our bodies. We will not be slave to the "reigns" of 3D, if you will. Our nervous system will upgrade to a whole new level.
This would also explain why 3D and 4D are not possible together. As Ra says, once in full 4D activation, 3D is impossible because an entity would not be able to imagine the world through the 3D illusion. This kinda explains parts of 4D that Ra says are characteristics of the new 4D sphere; If we were able to control our thoughts and feelings to such a great degree, why would you ever allow another thing to control you like our emotions/confusion do here in 3D? You'd have to either be a wanderer, or a settled 4D negative entity in their proper place in 4D neg society. The analogy to 3D would be taping your hands into paws with duct tape for no reason at all, and then trying to live life normally. Confusion will be just as non-logical in 4D, due to the clarity and control we will gain.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
Studying the "veil" today, I came across this. No time for me to contemplate if it applies to thread topic. Here it is
Quote:82.12....
A very great deal of creation was manifested without the use of the concepts involved in consciousness, as you know it. The creation itself is a form of consciousness which is unified, the Logos being the one great heart of creation. The process of evolution through this period, which may be seen to be timeless, is most valuable to take into consideration, for it is against the background of this essential unity of the fabric of creation that we find the ultimate development of the Logoi which chose to use that portion of the harvested consciousness of the Creator to move forward with the process of knowledge of self. As it had been found to be efficient to use the various densities, which are fixed in each octave, in order to create conditions in which self-conscious sub-Logoi could exist, this was carried out throughout the growing flower-strewn field, as your simile suggests, of the one infinite creation.
The first beings of mind, body, and spirit were not complex. The experience of mind/body/spirits at the beginning of this octave of experience was singular. There was no third-density forgetting. There was no veil. The lessons of third density are predestined by the very nature of the vibratory rates experienced during this particular density and by the nature of the quantum jump to the vibratory experiences of fourth density.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - native - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 11:56 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: When first getting into the Ra material and all the metaphysical/New Age material, I held firm to an "instant ascension" belief because I wanted so bad for it to be true. My own guides (through my unique channeling experiences) managed to dissolve this belief and open my mind to the beauty of life as it is now.
Yeah, it is a let down in a way. Don't forget time/space though. That will be instant in a sense, before or after a life review..whichever comes first. I'm sure it is a joyous event in time/space too..especially with the veil being lifted regardless.
(03-30-2011, 09:17 AM)zenmaster Wrote: My understanding is that those from Sirius, for example, would continue to evolve from 'trees' in 4th. Then, at 5th, have the ability to choose a form. I know that's not an answer, but obviously if at 5th one can choose a body-complex manifestation and at 3D and 4D one can not - then what is the actual question?
That's what I was thinking, but Ra doesn't really answer what he is essentially asking. I always took the answer to be in relation to Earth which was the confusing part, but the more I read it it sounds to be encompassing all other planets.
Perhaps it's in relation to the idea that in this general area of our galaxy (or was it the galaxy at large), the bipedal form is typically used with the possibility of evolving from other forms. So when these other forms reach 5th, they must end up choosing the standard humanoid form recognizing it to be ideal.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Bring4th_Austin - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 12:04 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Studying the "veil" today, I came across this. No time for me to contemplate if it applies to thread topic. Here it is
Quote:82.12....
A very great deal of creation was manifested without the use of the concepts involved in consciousness, as you know it. The creation itself is a form of consciousness which is unified, the Logos being the one great heart of creation. The process of evolution through this period, which may be seen to be timeless, is most valuable to take into consideration, for it is against the background of this essential unity of the fabric of creation that we find the ultimate development of the Logoi which chose to use that portion of the harvested consciousness of the Creator to move forward with the process of knowledge of self. As it had been found to be efficient to use the various densities, which are fixed in each octave, in order to create conditions in which self-conscious sub-Logoi could exist, this was carried out throughout the growing flower-strewn field, as your simile suggests, of the one infinite creation.
The first beings of mind, body, and spirit were not complex. The experience of mind/body/spirits at the beginning of this octave of experience was singular. There was no third-density forgetting. There was no veil. The lessons of third density are predestined by the very nature of the vibratory rates experienced during this particular density and by the nature of the quantum jump to the vibratory experiences of fourth density.
Not sure if it really does apply. I think Ra is describing the evolution of creation itself, and when he says it was timeless, it means outside of time itself. By this point, time did not exist. I can't even pretend to wrap my head around the idea of a "timeless" process. Trapped in very singular time as a physical personality, it's hard to stretch my imagination to expand my perception of something that I cannot experience, and cannot be described to me.
(03-30-2011, 12:24 PM)Derek ~ Wrote: Perhaps it's in relation to the idea that in this general area of our galaxy (or was it the galaxy at large), the bipedal form is typically used with the possibility of evolving from other forms. So when these other forms reach 5th, they must end up choosing the standard humanoid form recognizing it to be ideal.
When Ra was referring to 5th density looking similar to humans, this was simply the 5th density entities interacting with humans. They changed their appearance to match our's. I'm not too sure the bipedal ape form is ideal at all...it was part of the experiment for our local Logos, and several others formed around the same time.
Ra speculates that our Logos chose it to force us to develop speech instead of telepathy, and learn to use our hands (with tools) instead of our mind to manipulate material around us. It was to further veil our perception of existence. Not exactly ideal for much except this experiment we live in
Sometimes I imagine reaching 6D and then becoming a "far Wanderer" in another galaxy. I think it would be awesome to experience existence vastly different from our's. It apparently isn't easy to handle, but the experience I feel would be awesome.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
Hogey, your views are insightful and expansive, the best we can manage with our 3D brains ;-).
I think your ideas probably only touch the surface.
Even 4D's don't understand. Understanding is 5D.
Huh? Are we trying to skip green by this very desire to know?
Remember, to ascend, we must accept that we absolutely do NOT understand.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Bring4th_Austin - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:05 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Huh? Are we trying to skip green by this very desire to know?
Remember, to ascend, we must accept that we absolutely do NOT understand.
Despite this, curiosity persists. I'll never pretend to understand, but I can't help but try.
Last night while I was meditating, I received the constant thought that I was concentrating too hard to the technical aspects of something that might not even matter to me. I'll continue my search for understanding, even knowing it won't come, but balancing this is something I also must learn.
I always figured the best path to polarizing for 4D would be to learn the Laws of Love anyways, the Law of One seems to be a few graduate courses ahead of that
RE: 4D Body Evolution - native - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 10:47 AM)unity100 Wrote: if this is a physical sphere, at what point the increasingly 4d entities will start inhabiting it. how will this habitation happen. how will the switch to this physical plane happen. wont there be difficulty for entities that are on bodies on the threshold yet.
if, that is not in a sense of a physical sphere, then wont there be a lot of difficulties for increasingly 4d entities living in this still negative societal construct, while increasingly inhabiting the 4d sphere.
Well, we know that those with double bodies have an extreme amount of compassion/service/love. It could be said that in this example they are in many ways not bound by the current 3d complex. I imagine that as this progresses, the difficulties would actually alleviate as the yellow ray wanes, having less and less of an influence as their main instreamings become 4d.
As far as inhabiting the sphere, I think it may occur simultaneously as the bodies evolve. It is simply a matter of perception, what with this shielding business.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Bring4th_Austin - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:12 PM)Derek ~ Wrote:(03-30-2011, 10:47 AM)unity100 Wrote: if this is a physical sphere, at what point the increasingly 4d entities will start inhabiting it. how will this habitation happen. how will the switch to this physical plane happen. wont there be difficulty for entities that are on bodies on the threshold yet.
if, that is not in a sense of a physical sphere, then wont there be a lot of difficulties for increasingly 4d entities living in this still negative societal construct, while increasingly inhabiting the 4d sphere.
Well, we know that those with double bodies have an extreme amount of compassion/service/love. It could be said that in this example they are in many ways not bound by the current 3d complex. I imagine that as this progresses, the difficulties would actually alleviate as the yellow ray wanes, having less and less of an influence as their main instreamings become 4d.
As far as inhabiting the sphere, I think it may occur simultaneously as the bodies evolve. It is simply a matter of perception, what with this shielding business.
This seems to be most likely. Sort of like I suggested in another thread about the veil thinning in line with our 4D body evolution, perhaps the melting of the 3D environment and manifestation of the 4D environment happen gradually with this evolution as well.
That way, by the time the 4D sphere is completely manifested, we are left with only 4D bodies, or at least dual-activated bodies almost identical to 4D bodies.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:11 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:(03-30-2011, 01:05 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Huh? Are we trying to skip green by this very desire to know?
Remember, to ascend, we must accept that we absolutely do NOT understand.
Despite this, curiosity persists. I'll never pretend to understand, but I can't help but try.
Last night while I was meditating, I received the constant thought that I was concentrating too hard to the technical aspects of something that might not even matter to me. I'll continue my search for understanding, even knowing it won't come, but balancing this is something I also must learn.
I always figured the best path to polarizing for 4D would be to learn the Laws of Love anyways, the Law of One seems to be a few graduate courses ahead of that
"Try? There is no try. Do or do not"
Reaching. Reaching is what we do. No? Reaching pulls us closer. No?
You're right. Reach for Love. Reeeaaach
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Ankh - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 10:47 AM)unity100 Wrote:(03-30-2011, 12:22 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Interestingly, the dual-activated types probably got harvested on a net negative planet or maybe less likely, but possible a planet that could not support 4D life at all. So you think 3D life here is 'negative'... I'd would imagine they'd be telling stories of war, subjugation, etc.
in negative environments its not possible to polarize positively.
so it wouldnt be possible for any 3-4d positive entities incarnating here, harvested on a net negative planet.
That's too bad. When I have time I will look it up in LOO as you might remember it wrong.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - native - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 12:56 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: I'm not too sure the bipedal ape form is ideal at all...it was part of the experiment for our local Logos, and several others formed around the same time.
Ra speculates that our Logos chose it to force us to develop speech instead of telepathy, and learn to use our hands (with tools) instead of our mind to manipulate material around us. It was to further veil our perception of existence. Not exactly ideal for much except this experiment we live in
Are you sure? I remember the ape speculation, but I also seem to remember the bipedal form being mentioned as commonly used for 3d.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Confused - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 11:56 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: Out of simple curiosity, taking into account a gradual 4D body evolution, how do you picture the rest of ascension happening? Our bodies are only a single part of this. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Can I private message to you some time in the future, with my thoughts on why I think it is likely to be a non-gradual shift?
My thoughts are extremely subjective picked from multiple references from within the LOO. I could have got it all upside down in terms of understanding. Incidentally, my native tongue is not English. So in case my personal thoughts on non-gradual shift is filled with loopholes, I can spare myself a lot of blushes by not posting it in full view.
If I pm to you, only you can laugh, if my assumptions and beliefs are ridiculous
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Bring4th_Austin - 03-30-2011
Perhaps you are right, Derek....I found this Q&A while investigating your claim.
Quote:16.44 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a short description of the conditions in the fourth density?The context Ra uses this in confuses me...are all 4D entities bipedal? This means that evolution happens BEFORE 5D, and is not a conscious choice of that entity.
Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are not words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited until we become without words.
That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.
Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thought of other-selves; it is a plane wherein one is aware of vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.
This quote also offers some insight into the original purpose of this thread. My imagination of 4D is being stretched more and more...
================================================
(03-30-2011, 01:38 PM)Confused Wrote:(03-30-2011, 11:56 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: Out of simple curiosity, taking into account a gradual 4D body evolution, how do you picture the rest of ascension happening? Our bodies are only a single part of this. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Can I private message to you some time in the future, with my thoughts on why I think it is likely to be a non-gradual shift?
My thoughts are extremely subjective picked from multiple references from within the LOO. I could have got it all upside down in terms of understanding. Incidentally, my native tongue is not English. So in case my personal thoughts on non-gradual shift is filled with loopholes, I can spare myself a lot of blushes by not posting it in full view.
If I pm to you, only you can laugh, if my assumptions and beliefs are ridiculous
Absolutely! I will not laugh...I do not consider my own understanding of the LOO and Ra material to be superior to anyone's. I have my beliefs and interpretations, and I thoroughly enjoy discussing them with people despite whether they hold similar or contradictory beliefs.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - hogey11 - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 10:47 AM)unity100 Wrote: if, that is not in a sense of a physical sphere, then wont there be a lot of difficulties for increasingly 4d entities living in this still negative societal construct, while increasingly inhabiting the 4d sphere.
Didn't Q'uo correct Ra on the negative societal structure? I remember Q'uo saying that the 3 billion people who have been born in the last 30 years have been exceedingly bright and a great number of wanderers, and that we have already flipped our polarity into a positive majority. This is why the worldwide cataclysm that Ra predicted will not come to pass.
Also, @3DMonkey
Quote:One last question. Are my kids going to have a full chance to polarize? They don't really seem to be the 4D variety.
I have thought much about this, and I would say never doubt our ability to come to realization. As Ra says, "Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible."
Translation: Do not count anybody out! We may see a lot of situations arise in response to harvest that will truly test who we really are. Those who partake in the "quiet horror" are many, and when they are all awakened, there is nothing to say they won't bring another rush in their wake.
We don't know exactly how harvest will be judged. Its much like the Christian elements of judgment after death; easy to fear, hard to truly understand. All we know is that fear will not be a part of it, and that our greatest wishes shall be granted. Like you have said, maybe the whole point is for them to not be ready, to allow you to continue your journeys as a 3Dmonkey.... but I wouldn't doubt if they're more on the same page as you than you realize.[/quote]
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Confused - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:11 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: I always figured the best path to polarizing for 4D would be to learn the Laws of Love anyways, the Law of One seems to be a few graduate courses ahead of that Tongue
Thanks, dear friend. I share the feeling with you.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
(silly comment) & Wilcock says a very high percentage of ET's look exactly like us, and that they will be making themselves known publicly very soon. What part do they have in evolution? Oh wait, it is us!
& <- that's me rolling my eyes out of Love for all--of course, in light of this superb thread, if the veil slowly begins thinning out soon, we will we begin to see and "disclose" our ET origins publicly and amongst ourselves. & Is there a way I could profit from 'i told you so'? Silly&
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Bring4th_Austin - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:41 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: (silly comment) & Wilcock says a very high percentage of ET's look exactly like us, and that they will be making themselves known publicly very soon. What part do they have in evolution? Oh wait, it is us!
When I heard Wilcock claim this, and also claim to be a follower of the LOO material, I had these quotes in mind, which made me question his comments.
Quote:90.8 Questioner: I see. Very roughly, if you were to move a third-density entity from some other planet to this planet, what percentage of all of those within the knowledge of Ra would look enough like entities of Earth so that they would go unnoticed in a crowd?
Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps five percent.
90.10 Questioner: Within Ra’s knowledge of the third-density physical forms, what percentage would be similar enough to this planet’s physical forms that we would assume the entities to be human even though they were a bit different? This would have to be very rough because of my definition’s being very rough.
Ra: I am Ra. This percentage is still small; perhaps thirteen to fifteen percent due to the capabilities of various second-density life forms to carry out each necessary function for third-density work. Thusly to be observed would be behavior indicating self-consciousness and purposeful interaction with a sentient ambiance about the entity rather than those characteristics which familiarly connote to your peoples the humanity of your third-density form.
The answer to the second question is deeper than I first realized, and I will spend some time trying to understand it.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:38 PM)Confused Wrote:(03-30-2011, 11:56 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: Out of simple curiosity, taking into account a gradual 4D body evolution, how do you picture the rest of ascension happening? Our bodies are only a single part of this. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Can I private message to you some time in the future, with my thoughts on why I think it is likely to be a non-gradual shift?
My thoughts are extremely subjective picked from multiple references from within the LOO. I could have got it all upside down in terms of understanding. Incidentally, my native tongue is not English. So in case my personal thoughts on non-gradual shift is filled with loopholes, I can spare myself a lot of blushes by not posting it in full view.
If I pm to you, only you can laugh, if my assumptions and beliefs are ridiculous
That is awesomely humble. I'm going to use this as my own disclaimer for every post I write.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - Confused - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:53 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: That is awesomely humble. I'm going to use this as my own disclaimer for every post I write. Smile
It is usually said that there are two kinds of humility. One is 'true humility', which is of course sincere.
And the other being 'false humility', which is an emotion masquerading as humility; but aimed at gaining compliments or special recognition through show of piety. I sometimes feel I am motivated more by 'false humility'.
Will strive to be more true as I spiritually mature, I promise
RE: 4D Body Evolution - native - 03-30-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:38 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: The context Ra uses this in confuses me...are all 4D entities bipedal? This means that evolution happens BEFORE 5D, and is not a conscious choice of that entity.
This quote also offers some insight into the original purpose of this thread. My imagination of 4D is being stretched more and more...
Session 90 answers some of this. 13-15% would be recognized as human-looking. Our Logos and neighboring Logoi prefer the biped form. This is in reference to 3d.
As far as 4d goes, no idea!
RE: 4D Body Evolution - 3DMonkey - 03-30-2011
Well, I'd bet that last one was true humility
Sorry I keep veering off topic! Love. Love is the culprit, Man.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - zenmaster - 03-30-2011
(03-29-2011, 10:44 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:(03-29-2011, 09:22 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Interestingly, we know that the 4D DNA from the dual-activated (DA) types here now were not passed from the (non-DA) mother. So were did that genetic material come from? Presumably, the 4D DNA is in 4D space/time (connected to 4D time/space mind) - so 3D instruments can't detect it.
Since the 4D body itself isn't necessarily manifested (or is it?), does the 4D body need DNA?
Quote:65.19 Questioner: Thank you. The forgetting process was puzzling me because you said that the fourth-density activated people who were here who had been harvested did not have the same forgetting problem. Could you tell me why the Wanderer loses his memory?
Ra: I am Ra. The reason is twofold. First, the genetic properties of the connection between the mind/body/spirit complex and the cellular structure of the body is different for third-density than for third/fourth-density.
The 4D body apparently has genetic properties. My understanding is that genetic implies chemical-body encoding. Since the elements are different, not Deoxyribonucleic acid, but presumably some form of 4D chemical encoding.
(03-30-2011, 01:30 PM)Ankh Wrote:Unless I remember wrongly, Ra was referring to 4th and 5th densities with respect to negative environments - not 3rd density. In the same manner that this planetary influence becomes positive, and 4D negatives find another home, some planets have the bulk of 4D negative and the positive graduates find another home.(03-30-2011, 10:47 AM)unity100 Wrote:(03-30-2011, 12:22 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Interestingly, the dual-activated types probably got harvested on a net negative planet or maybe less likely, but possible a planet that could not support 4D life at all. So you think 3D life here is 'negative'... I'd would imagine they'd be telling stories of war, subjugation, etc.
in negative environments its not possible to polarize positively.
so it wouldnt be possible for any 3-4d positive entities incarnating here, harvested on a net negative planet.
That's too bad. When I have time I will look it up in LOO as you might remember it wrong.
(03-30-2011, 01:58 PM)Confused Wrote:Humility in 3D is relative. It's like the appreciation 'love', where people tend to 'know it when they see it' - whatever their awareness can accept at that point, or whatever allows them to identify with it. It refers to a condition of being 'grounded', as far as one is able to notice and usually contrasted with conditions or situations which are or promote being less sincere or less grounded.(03-30-2011, 01:53 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: That is awesomely humble. I'm going to use this as my own disclaimer for every post I write. Smile
It is usually said that there are two kinds of humility. One is 'true humility', which is of course sincere.
And the other being 'false humility', which is an emotion masquerading as humility; but aimed at gaining compliments or special recognition through show of piety. I sometimes feel I am motivated more by 'false humility'.
Will strive to be more true as I spiritually mature, I promise
(03-30-2011, 10:47 AM)unity100 Wrote:(03-30-2011, 12:22 AM)zenmaster Wrote: My understanding is that those from Sirius, for example, would continue to evolve from 'trees' in 4th. Then, at 5th, have the ability to choose a form. I know that's not an answer, but obviously if at 5th one can choose a body-complex manifestation and at 3D and 4D one can not - then what is the actual question?
they are not choosing a form. 5d entities are able to mold their body into form. not one time either.
This may be another 'language thing', but when they mold their body into form, are they not choosing? They don't use their will to manifest a form? Not sure what you're implying. To me, that is choosing a form. Not sure what you are adding.
RE: 4D Body Evolution - unity100 - 03-31-2011
(03-30-2011, 01:40 PM)hogey11 Wrote:(03-30-2011, 10:47 AM)unity100 Wrote: if, that is not in a sense of a physical sphere, then wont there be a lot of difficulties for increasingly 4d entities living in this still negative societal construct, while increasingly inhabiting the 4d sphere.
Didn't Q'uo correct Ra on the negative societal structure? I remember Q'uo saying that the 3 billion people who have been born in the last 30 years have been exceedingly bright and a great number of wanderers, and that we have already flipped our polarity into a positive majority. This is why the worldwide cataclysm that Ra predicted will not come to pass.
the quote you replied to was not relevant to the positive/negative percentage situation on this planet.
(03-30-2011, 11:57 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Unless I remember wrongly, Ra was referring to 4th and 5th densities with respect to negative environments - not 3rd density. In the same manner that this planetary influence becomes positive, and 4D negatives find another home, some planets have the bulk of 4D negative and the positive graduates find another home.
leaving aside the fact that no majority negative harvest was described in Ra material - it is rather implied :
can the pull on entities in 4d, 5d be absolute, but that feature of negative path may not reflect in also 3d aspects of the path ? in an environment where majority is set to enslave, can minority be free ?
one may say that isolation may work in these cases. however remember that the effects of money/barter system and the ensuing enslavement of entities created an environment in which all entities on the planet had their lifespans shortened. and that, a nuclear fission blast somewhere, requires entire planet and everybody to heal.
this means, it is still possible for a planet in 3d to get affected en masse in time/space by any kind of noticeable situation, and therefore carry over the effect to all the inhabiting entities.
for 4d harvestees in 2nd cycle 'isolation was possible at this time period' was said. so, its of importance.
if we boil it down practically, it would be impossible to polarize positively if any negatively oriented source is able to reach you in 3d.
which rather also is parallel with the happenings on this planet, with raving hordes, rampant enslavement and everyone having to adopt rather negative patterns to even be able to survive and have a choice.
Quote:This may be another 'language thing', but when they mold their body into form, are they not choosing? They don't use their will to manifest a form? Not sure what you're implying. To me, that is choosing a form. Not sure what you are adding.
when you say choose, and use the word once, it also can denote a situation in which entities are able to choose a form/manifestation once, like at the outset of the incarnation. when you use choose in a context of more than one choice during incarnation, it can also mean entities are able to choose among various body types that they can manifest as, as a set, with limited choices.
therefore words mold and choose are a lot different - mold means, entity can make its outer appearance as it wishes, according to its own will and desire. choose implies restriction.