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+--- Thread: Free will infringement questions (/showthread.php?tid=13064)
Free will infringement questions - anon_guy24526 - 07-13-2016
So hey there everyone, first post but i was thinking about this for a long time.
What do you guys think, was there any implication in the Ra Material what actually happens if someone keeps going against, for example my free will ?
I think i remember something about 4th and 5th density beings simply respecting free will, not even trying to infringe if there is no opportunity available, but i know unfortunately from experience that a few people do it as a hobby here.
Do you guys have any thoughts on this topic?
RE: Free will infringement questions - Minyatur - 07-13-2016
What do you have in mind when you say that some people do it as a hobby here? I think free will infringement is a highly abstract concept.
RE: Free will infringement questions - anon_guy24526 - 07-13-2016
Sorry for answering late i was thinking how to put it.
My experience is, without telling anything specific, is that if this person wants something to happen to me, the method is to make me feel uncomfortable unless i give in and accept what this person wants as my own. A very unpleasant presence, to say the least.
For example, if i planned a weekend with a friend, this person might show up, and announce that there is an event which i must take part in at that exact weekend.
Or, if i wanted to be a football player, this person would arrange every single match to be as painful and awkward as possible. But the point is, he would never go direct and prohibit, he would just cause situations that make one feel quite powerless and weak. Not sure if it is understandable.
Sorry if i made mistakes i am not a native english speaker.
Edit: this works in positive directions as well tho, so if he had in mind to make me care about engineering or politics, he would feed back very positively whatever i did in these directions
RE: Free will infringement questions - ada - 07-13-2016
One could enslave your entire family and it still wouldn't infringe upon your free will.
RE: Free will infringement questions - Minyatur - 07-13-2016
I think the use of free will infringement within the Ra material relates more to somewhat ruining another's veiled experience, like higher density infringement upon lower experiences of the Creator of Itself. On a more personal note, I don't think there is such a thing as free will infringement outside the illusion of feeling you are infringing or being infringed, which is personal to each and very abstract. What I think is that every other-self you encounter is instead an actor of your fate that you attract to yourself because you provide one another a two-way service that is sought either consciously or unconsciously by each.
In the context of your experience, the person you speak of seems to have controlling traits which are qualities of the STS path. So there is free will infringement in that this person is consciously trying to manipulate you, which makes it a polarizing catalyst for both of you. As above, so bellow.
RE: Free will infringement questions - anon_guy24526 - 07-16-2016
(07-13-2016, 08:00 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I think the use of free will infringement within the Ra material relates more to somewhat ruining another's veiled experience, like higher density infringement upon lower experiences of the Creator of Itself. On a more personal note, I don't think there is such a thing as free will infringement outside the illusion of feeling you are infringing or being infringed, which is personal to each and very abstract. What I think is that every other-self you encounter is instead an actor of your fate that you attract to yourself because you provide one another a two-way service that is sought either consciously or unconsciously by each.
In the context of your experience, the person you speak of seems to have controlling traits which are qualities of the STS path. So there is free will infringement in that this person is consciously trying to manipulate you, which makes it a polarizing catalyst for both of you. As above, so bellow.
But what if i told you, this entity actually does abuse incarnational patterns on a grand scale ? That is actually quite close to ruining someone's incarnational experience.
Let's say this entity is extremely self-absorbed, goal oriented and fairly persistent ( if it comes to his well being at least )
Trained in history, he is aware of several incarnational patterns, and what he does basically is looking for parallels between people of some talent/power from the past, and manipulate them into the Orion Group ( this name is so lame, let's call it Empire, since that is the recurring name for this organisation here ) thereby gathering power, directing the will of even positively oriented people towards enslavement and destruction. Failing to do this the methods of "convincing" is terror, threats and in the case of weaker resistance, temptation.
Say, this entity finds a fairly talented musician, and the present life pattern beautifully resembles that of an almost legendary musician from the 18th century. This video clip is tho only imaginary, the principles are shown : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjR4_CbPpQ
Can this be actually called infringement ? I think it is, even if through some lawyer logic you might say it isn't neccessarily, but if one becomes aware of the attempt, then it definetely is infringement.
Edit: the video is part of the Interstellar 555, very interesting to watch the whole movie, i recommend it to every reader on the forum
RE: Free will infringement questions - Minyatur - 07-16-2016
Well I personally don't think this there is infringement and instead the asking of why you manifest certain other-selves within your reality, what you have to learn from them and what you have to teach to them.
RE: Free will infringement questions - APeacefulWarrior - 07-16-2016
Yeah, I'm also with Minyatur. None of this is true free will infringement. That's incredibly difficult to truly accomplish in our veiled 3D reality. About the only methods I can think of offhand which might qualify would be intense torture and\or use of forced psychotropic drugs with the specific intention of breaking down someone's sense of self utterly for the sake of rebuilding a new personality later. But such things happen far more often in movies than in real life.
Otherwise, those of the negative path will often go to great lengths to try to convince someone to "sign up" with their philosophy or worldview, but free will still stands in the way. One who truly does not wish to embrace the path that negative entities offer cannot be forced to walk it.
And I feel I should caution you: If the positive path is what you seek, then look to avoid and dispel feelings of fear and persecution. Those are tools of the negative. More or less, should this entity successfully convince you that it holds power over you, then you will have given it that power. And the more time you choose to spend contemplating its supposed power, the more power you end up giving it.
On the other hand, should you recognize yourself as a bright beacon of radiance which cannot be dimmed by Earthly coercion, then you will have placed yourself utterly beyond its reach.
RE: Free will infringement questions - spero - 07-16-2016
though the higher negative densities may respect free will in order to advance, the lower densities seem to advocate the abridging of free will. My theory on why this is acceptable on a karmic/cosmic level is the negative entities are in turn abridged and subjugated to 4d and 5d sts entities.
e.g. 4d sts
Quote:The attempts of the so-called Crusaders to interfere with free will are acceptable upon the dimension of their understanding. However, the mind/body/spirit complexes of this dimension you call third form a dimension of free will which is not able to, shall we say, recognize in full, the distortions towards manipulation. Thus, in order to balance the dimensional variances in vibration, a quarantine was set up, this being a balancing situation whereby the free will of the Orion group is not stopped but given a challenge. Meanwhile, the third-density group is not hindered from free choice
3d sts
Quote:Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.
its also quite easy to infringe on free will within 3d and i offer the below excerpt as a sample/guide
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2009/2009_0314.aspx
Quote:Among your peoples, free will is a prime mover; on a spiritual level, absolutely. On the level of the physical, mental and emotional, there is no absolute, for you are each other’s neighbors and friends. You do have the right to offer your opinion to each other when asked. You have the right to influence each other when you are using your power in ways that are appropriate, within the bounds of your relationships and that which has been requested of you. You do not have to be as concerned as we in the normal run of your life and in your interactions with those in your environment. It is acceptable and within the bounds of free will to express your opinion when asked, and even to discuss that opinion again when it is asked of you.
There are many ways in which free will needs to be abridged within your third-density environment. When you have a child, that child must have his free will abridged many times. He must follow the rules of the family and learn the limitations of his power. It is not an infringement upon free will, in the sense of there being any karmic damage, to keep a child from harming himself on a hot stove, walking off the side of a porch, or otherwise hurting himself.
As parents and teachers train their charges and show them and explain to them how to be good people, these seeming infringements upon free will are appropriate and needed. When one is asked to be a mentor or teacher, it is not only acceptable but also desirable for you to express yourself to the very best of your ability, for guidance has been requested.
And when you are asked questions, whether of a physical, emotional or spiritual nature, it is entirely appropriate to offer your opinion, again using your own sense of rightness and goodness to shape your replies.
However, it is indeed possible within third density for people to infringe upon each others’ free will in ways that do involve karma. Take for instance the institution that you call marriage. A marriage of equal partners may involve many spirited discussions, but if one of the mates reserves the right to give orders to the other, there has been an infringement upon the free will of that individual whose liberties have been limited without his or her consent.
In a work situation it is entirely acceptable for the leader to give orders to the employee as long as they do not shame him or abase him or disrespect him as a human being. When one entity uses a weapon to coerce or force another to do his bidding, whether it is in criminal acts or acts of war, this, too, goes beyond the bounds of acceptable usage and constitutes an infringement upon the free will of the one who is limited.
There is no question but that in all of those three circumstances and more there is much infringement upon free will among your people. To those who feel that there is a question as to whether they are acting appropriately or whether they are moving beyond the bounds of acceptable influence and infringing upon another’s free will, we might suggest that, in your mind, you turn the tables and see the situation as happening the opposite way, not from you to another but from another to you. If, in that turnaround, you see the goodness of your actions, you are most likely behaving appropriately and maintaining unity between yourself and the other self. If, when you turn the tables, you realize you would resent such a thing were it to happen to you, then you know that you have infringed upon the rights, the peace, and the liberty of another.
All this said, knowing that its all too easy for other's to infringe on your free will, how then should you engage with the situation. my interpretation is those on the positive path arnt any safer than your run of the mill individual from experiencing infringement or dealing with difficult individuals and catalyst. what they do have is the ability to perceive the catalyst offered as a challenge or opportunity to refine their choice to serve and keep their heart open.
Quote:95.24 ...
The seeker which has purely chosen the service-to-others path shall certainly not have a variant apparent incarnational experience. There is no outward shelter in your illusion from the gusts, flurries, and blizzards of quick and cruel catalyst.
However, to the pure, all that is encountered speaks of the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator. The cruelest blow is seen with an ambiance of challenges offered and opportunities to come. Thusly, the great pitch of light is held high above such an one so that all interpretation may be seen to be protected by light.