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6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Pablísimo - 08-03-2010
Moderator Note: This thread was split from Olio > Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research
(08-03-2010, 09:48 AM)unity100 Wrote: there is also the consideration of wisdom. an outside source may be positive, but, it may contain less pure understandings of existence, and thus while giving a positive 4d understanding, it may distort other ray understandings.
....
it is actually quite simple. there may be a valid, positive channel praising 4d service to the extent of martyrdom. this may be acceptable and valid for 4d understanding, but, it would be folly when looked from the perspective of early 5d and higher. 4d understanding is more distorted than 5d, and 5d is more distorted than 6d, and so it goes.
If I may add something here, respectfully,
This is your own, VERY unique perspective. It is based on YOUR premise that Wanderers do not need to polarize STO and work on 3D lessons while incarnated here. This is not supported by the Ra material or a view widely shared on the forum, and so is probably the source of the confusion.
Every time you say something like "It's a question of Wisdom", one has to translate that into "No need to think about green ray work, you're wasting your time being loving, Wanderers are here to work on 6D+ lessons, and forget that whole radiating love, polarizing positive, being a beacon for other-Selves business."
Despite the fact that I personally disagree with this view, you have every right to your own opinion.
My take is that either L/L sources or outside sources with POSITIVE messages, even if they are only green ray, and perhaps ESPECIALLY if they are, are very beneficial for 3D humans struggling to polarize and graduate for the first time as well for as higher-D Wanderers who are RE-learning/RE-experiencing the 3D Choice and lessons of Love. The difficulty lies in determining what material is truly positive. Just like much of our traditional spiritual material, channeled sources often tends to be mixed polarity. Luckily, Ra gave us some great guidelines on determining which is which to combine with our own inner discernment.
Besides, I don't think that any of us is truly in a position to discern for others what is "wisdom" and what is "folly". The moment we proclaim our own wisdom is the same one in which we truly admit our ignorance.
and Vice versa, if you know what I mean.
(08-03-2010, 04:23 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Which for many positive sources is of course not a problem. However in the cases where material is not clearly positive the impossible burden of determining even before discussion whether the material is acceptable or not will land squarely on the shoulders of the moderators. And no matter how good they are, asking them to be clairvoyant might be pushing things.
I think you hit the nail on the head here, Ali, that is precisely the crux of the problem as I see it. I too enjoyed the Bashar discussion while it was still up, but I think it really does violate the forum rules and to make an exception for one source opens the door wide open to others. I suspect it will inevitably lead to the moderators having to make a judgement call on the infinite number of sources available to discuss. I suggest PMs are the appropriate vehicle for such side discussions --- I had a great conversation with Namaste about Bashar well over a month ago.
Just my 2 cents.
Love to all
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - unity100 - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 11:10 AM)Pablísimo Wrote: If I may add something here, respectfully,
This is your own, VERY unique perspective. It is based on YOUR premise that Wanderers do not need to polarize STO and work on 3D lessons while incarnated here. This is not supported by the Ra material or a view widely shared on the forum, and so is probably the source of the confusion.
Every time you say something like "It's a question of Wisdom", one has to translate that into "No need to think about green ray work, you're wasting your time being loving, Wanderers are here to work on 6D+ lessons, and forget that whole radiating love, polarizing positive, being a beacon for other-Selves business."
Despite the fact that I personally disagree with this view, you have every right to your own opinion.
My take is that either L/L sources or outside sources with POSITIVE messages, even if they are only green ray, and perhaps ESPECIALLY if they are, are very beneficial for 3D humans struggling to polarize and graduate for the first time as well for as higher-D Wanderers who are RE-learning/RE-experiencing the 3D Choice and lessons of Love. The difficulty lies in determining what material is truly positive. Just like much of our traditional spiritual material, channeled sources often tends to be mixed polarity. Luckily, Ra gave us some great guidelines on determining which is which to combine with our own inner discernment.
Besides, I don't think that any of us is truly in a position to discern for others what is "wisdom" and what is "folly". The moment we proclaim our own wisdom is the same one in which we truly admit our ignorance.
and Vice versa, if you know what I mean.
these are not my opinion. these are the details from the material Ra delivered.
in numerous places, they state that due to their 'naivete' due to imbalanced compassion, they have made various mistakes. one of them, they state as manifesting as 6d entities' forms in egypt. another mistake of extreme compassion and resulting complications is original yahweh's story, the way they have shown imbalanced and extreme compassion for the entities they are guarding, and made very noticeable mistakes after those entities came to this world, resulting in the annunaki issue and all its corollaries, including the exploitation of that mistake by orion confederacy, to the extent that their message was usurped by orion entities.
in descriptions and harvests of 3, 4 and 5d, in Ra material, we learn that the harvest of 3d is the only one requiring polarization. 4d harvest, is one of wisdom, in which entities who are ready to learn the ways of blue ray are harvested. it doesnt matter how much you are polarized. that means that, entities manifest in the understanding of green ray in 4d, and the activity of understanding becomes one of learning the dance of existence in 5d. and in 6d, as Ra tells us, polarity becomes a thing of the past.
at this moment one needs to remind that majority of wanderers here, are from 6d.
that means, they all need to render their unique service, whatever that is, and this is theirs to discover. no all encompassing, mass-manufactured definition can be applied to all of them in regard to energy model or their service, since these entities are from a lot of places from this galaxy, if not entire universe, and diverse in nature.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - Pablísimo - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 12:59 PM)unity100 Wrote: these are not my opinion. these are the details from the material Ra delivered.
Yes, it IS indeed your opinion in regards to WANDERERS INCARNATE IN 3D.
Yes they have mentioned in numerous places about the naivete of 4D, 5D,early 6D entities in contrast to earlier densities, and I don't disagree with any of your other text in regards to 4D/5D lessons while IN 4D/5D. That is the key, though. You are trying to apply those 4D/5D lessons to Wanderers here in 3D.
You could certainly argue that Jesus, a Wanderer from 4D could have done much more good and positively impacted many more souls had he not allowed himself to be martyred. This I do not deny and is a neat example of how one could (with some logical twists) determine that it was "folly" or "foolishness" to be so compassionate. However, I argue that had Jesus totally neglected 3D work and NOT provided an example to Other-Selves on positive STO polarization and ultimate graduation, had he not shared with his Brothers and Sisters of the day his understanding of LOVE AND COMPASSION, that his overall impact on this world would have been hardly noticeable at all. Forgetting what the dark ones did with the teachings later on for a moment, what would he possibly have been able to teach to those 3D souls looking to him as a beacon of light if he totally neglected his green ray work?
In my view, fooling yourself into thinking you're working on advanced lessons to the EXCLUSION of 3D lessons, and are somehow beyond polarity, the Choice, the need to polarize positively and in so doing raise the consciousness of all and be a beacon to Other-selves, is exceedingly unhealthy and arrogant. Where you make the "logical leap of faith" is in applying the lessons that 4D/5D/6D souls in their home dimensions to Wanderers who are IN 3D right now, at this time.
You have every right to this opinion, as we all have our own unique understandings of this amazing existence we are part of. However, I totally object to the notion that this worldview of the goals of a Wanderer in this incarnation is supported by Ra. You can believe whatever you like, your path is your own. However, what you cannot do is claim that this perspective is based in the Ra Material without being challenged by those who understand that this view is totally your own. I may be the first one to notice this, maybe not, but I'm certain that I am not alone in this once what you are saying truly becomes clear.
Nowhere does Ra state that Wanderers in 3D don't need to polarize STO, nor do they state that they have incarnated here to work on higher dimensional lessons. Sure, by all means work on higher lessons as a "side activity" but advocating abandoning green ray work simply on the basis of being a Wanderer is something I cannot agree with. Green ray work has enormous value right here and now, for Wanderers and terrestrial 3Ds alike. Radiating love, being an example, and raising the consciousness are why Wanderers incarnate here. It would be exceedingly selfish to think they ONLY have only incarnated to work on their own higher-ray work that they have a home density for. Have you ever read any quotes from Einstein? Sure he may have been here partially to offer technical information. But you can find quote after quote filled with the Love and compassion of a clearly positively polarizing soul. Ditto for Tesla.
I have already shared with you extensively supporting evidence on Wanderers in PMs, so at this point if you still don't think that Wanderers need to polarize STO and go through the same graduation process as other 3D entities, then I suggest you just re-read the Ra material with an open mind.
My point in posting this here was for the benefit of all the others who may not have yet figured out what philosophical beyond-polarity, forget green-ray work, position you are actually coming from. I saw it just yesterday day on a thread with 3D Sunset, this confusion. Unfortunately, I think many of us make the assumption we are coming from the same FUNDAMENTAL perspective in regards to this topic and so sometimes your comments about wisdom don't fully sink in. Since your view of "beyond polarity" Wanderer work is not widely shared, it is going to be the source of continual confusion in this forum filled with actively STO polarizing Wanderers.
Love to all
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - fairyfarmgirl - 08-03-2010
Thank you, Pablísimo for getting to the HEART of the Matter. Beautiful Hearts a Flowering everywhere. --fairyfarmgirl
dandelion-fluff1.jpg (Size: 37.71 KB / Downloads: 10)
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - unity100 - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 01:35 PM)Pablísimo Wrote: Yes, it IS indeed your opinion in regards to WANDERERS INCARNATE IN 3D.
these are my conclusions indeed, however, i am backing it with what i have been taught by the material we all read, and im providing references to it.
moreover, some of these are basic, simple, direct conclusions of what has been said to us, as you will just see in the block below this one.
in the meantime, if there are anything you want to see referenced in particular from what i am saying, just let me know.
Quote:Yes they have mentioned in numerous places about the naivete of 4D, 5D,early 6D entities in contrast to earlier densities, and I don't disagree with any of your other text in regards to 4D/5D lessons while IN 4D/5D. That is the key, though. You are trying to apply those 4D/5D lessons to Wanderers here in 3D.
it is not me. one of the reasons cited for the wanderer phenomenon in Ra material is, the fact that entities incarnating as wanderers can greatly accelerate their progress by incarnating in 3d, as opposed to continuing their learning in their own densities.
that means that, an entity which is in 4d, 5d, or 6d, can accelerate its progress by incarnating as a wanderer in 3d.
accelerating the progression of an entity in 4d, 5d, or 6d, as one can easily conclude, would mean the acceleration of progression of learning of the lessons relevant to their own density.
that means that the entity's 4, 5, or 6d progression will be much faster in a 3d incarnation as wanderer, compared to its progression in its own natural density.
this, naturally, requires that the lessons and work be relevant to those densities. because, since progression in 4, 5, or 6d require lessons of 4, 5th and 6d respectively, and not 3d lesson and choice of polarization repeating again and again and again, that means that the wanderers from higher densities do learn these lessons in 3d density. so that, they will progress as opposed to being in their own density.
if, progression of these higher densities involved doing choice lessons again and polarization, then there would be no need for 4, 5 or 6th densities or any other density to exist, because then the progression of higher densities would be possible by just staying in 3d, and repeating choices of polarization and polarizing.
the very fact that we know wanderers are able to accelerate their progress in octave by incarnating as wanderers, tells us that the wanderers' lessons are not limited to 3d.
Quote:You could certainly argue that Jesus, a Wanderer from 4D could have done much more good and positively impacted many more souls had he not allowed himself to be martyred. This I do not deny and is a neat example of how one could (with some logical twists) determine that it was "folly" or "foolishness" to be so compassionate. However, I argue that had Jesus totally neglected 3D work and NOT provided an example to Other-Selves on positive STO polarization and ultimate graduation, had he not shared with his Brothers and Sisters of the day his understanding of LOVE AND COMPASSION, that his overall impact on this world would have been hardly noticeable at all. Forgetting what the dark ones did with the teachings later on for a moment, what would he possibly have been able to teach to those 3D souls looking to him as a beacon of light if he totally neglected his green ray work?
first of all, we cannot forget what the dark ones did with the teachings later on. because, it is the very thing that shows how foolish and naive that act was, in that his sacrifice and lack of wisdom has paved the way for a very strong, tight and repressive negative hierarchy to form, and hold entities in its grips until very recently, barring a lot of positive progress and negative progress.
one can also remember that how similar this naivete is, to the one yahweh exhibited - it has the same exact pattern - their overcompassionate acts without thinking in detail in regard to long term consequences and possibilities of their actions, have resulted in the messages of both entities being usurped by negative entities.
secondly, it seems that you are in the impression that higher rays exclude green ray. this is a misconception. blue ray is a higher vibration than green ray, and it also includes green ray characteristics. indigo is higher than blue, and it includes all the other rays' characteristics.
each ray however, has their own major feel and nature, and all densities and their properties (hence the rays) are created by intelligent infinity to reflect a major step, nature of existence of this octave.
so, when you are met with blue ray, the fact that you do not feel immediate and boundless compassion feature of green ray does not mean that green ray isnt there.
and when you are met with indigo ray, the fact that you do not feel the extreme communicativeness, feeling of freedom the blue ray manifests, does not mean that blue ray isnt there.
Quote:In my view, fooling yourself into thinking you're working on advanced lessons to the EXCLUSION of 3D lessons, and are somehow beyond polarity, the Choice, the need to polarize positively and in so doing raise the consciousness of all and be a beacon to Other-selves, is exceedingly unhealthy and arrogant. Where you make the "logical leap of faith" is in applying the lessons that 4D/5D/6D souls in their home dimensions to Wanderers who are IN 3D right now, at this time.
and in my view, you are, for some reason, trying to limit the existence of wanderer phenomenon to repetition of choice and polarization and the work of green ray.
and as i have explained, in the block 2 above, i am not making any logical leap of faith at all. wanderers are able to accelerate the progression of their density by incarnating into 3d worlds.
that does mean that the lessons of 4d,5d, 6d, have to be learned by these wanderers in 3d, because, you cannot accelerate 6d progression while incarnated in 3d world, by not learning the lessons of 6d.
Quote:You have every right to this opinion, as we all have our own unique understandings of this amazing existence we are part of. However, I totally object to the notion that this worldview of the goals of a Wanderer in this incarnation is supported by Ra. You can believe whatever you like, your path is your own. However, what you cannot do is claim that this perspective is based in the Ra Material without being challenged by those who understand that this view is totally your own. I may be the first one to notice this, maybe not, but I'm certain that I am not alone in this once what you are saying truly becomes clear.
i base my claim on the fact that wanderers are able to accelerate their progression by incarnating in 3d. it is a simple conclusion.
for this conclusion to be wrong, entities would need to be able to accelerate their progression in higher densities by ignoring 4,5,6d lessons, and repeating choice and polarization of 3d over and over, while incarnated in 3d.
since it is impossible to graduate from any density without learning its lessons, it is impossible. any kind of progression in a density requires lessons and experiences related to that density. that is why more than one density is present.
that means, entities incarnating in 3d are not able to, and cannot be able to accelerate their progression by not learning 4, 5, 6d lessons, and its immediate conclusion would be, since these wanderers are able to progress in regard to their own density while incarnated in 3d, they DO learn the lessons of their own densities in 3d.
with this conclusion, it would mean that an entity would be learning whatever lessons it has to learn in 3d, as opposed to its own density.
this may be blue ray work, entity may be lacking in wisdom or communication or other concepts, hence the entity may become a poet, a writer, or a teacher, or it may be indigo ray work, the entity may keep to a monastery or do extensive meditation or engage in sciences or any kind of creative activity that involves indigo ray work, or the entity may be lacking in compassion and it may become a father, mother, an orphanage manager, this or that.
it totally depends on whatever particular energy/evolutionary model the entity has at that given time and what it needs to do or it can do in a given 3d planet.
that means, wanderers' lessons and service is not limited to green ray manifestations, as you so insistently claim.
Quote:Nowhere does Ra state that Wanderers in 3D don't need to polarize STO, nor do they state that they have incarnated here to work on higher dimensional lessons. Sure, by all means work on higher lessons as a "side activity" but advocating abandoning green ray work simply on the basis of being a Wanderer is something I cannot agree with. Green ray work has enormous value right here and now, for Wanderers and terrestrial 3Ds alike. Radiating love, being an example, and raising the consciousness are why Wanderers incarnate here. It would be exceedingly selfish to think they ONLY have only incarnated to work on their own higher-ray work that they have a home density for. Have you ever read any quotes from Einstein? Sure he may have been here partially to offer technical information. But you can find quote after quote filled with the Love and compassion of a clearly positively polarizing soul. Ditto for Tesla.
again, you are reducing an entire creation to green ray as a corollary of your approach.
service does not mean green ray love. but maybe more importantly, existence does not mean green ray. green ray, is just one of the 7 densities in this octave only. there are infinite number of octaves before this one, and after this one.
...................
the proposition that 'wanderers having ONLY incarnated to work on their own higher-ray work that they have a home density for is selfish' is extremely devoid of links with base principles of rays and densities by the way.
leaving the fact that all higher rays include vibrations of all the lower rays in them, the above proposition says that if a wanderer here had only worked on blue ray, or indigo ray, that would mean that it would be selfish, self centered.
so, then, blue ray, indigo ray, are self oriented rays ? wouldnt this also directly lead to a conclusion that, 5d, 6d, positive manifestations are also selfish ?
noone is able to make use of keyboards, monitor screens, computers, mass transportation vehicles, or poems, books then ?
since these are the results of 'selfish' rays, because, innumerable wanderers and entities have worked on these rays, instead of green ray ?
its impossible.
on the final note, you can also find quotes from mark twain, winston churchill, or even napoleon, regarding compassion or love. but, that doesnt mean that their existence and manifestation was of a green ray manifestation, or they were wanderers.
Quote:I have already shared with you extensively supporting evidence on Wanderers in PMs, so at this point if you still don't think that Wanderers need to polarize STO and go through the same graduation process as other 3D entities, then I suggest you just re-read the Ra material with an open mind.
i dont remember any extensive supporting evidence in the discussion in pms, regarding how manifesting green ray love was the duty of a wanderer. i remember you trying to limit the existence of a wanderer in a 3d veiled planet to manifestation and repeating of the choice, and polarization of 3d. however it seems that you have rather changed your approach, and you are now also recognizing other rays.
Quote:My point in posting this here was for the benefit of all the others who may not have yet figured out what philosophical beyond-polarity, forget green-ray work, position you are actually coming from.
i do not remember at any point telling 'forget green ray work' in any topic, in any occasion, at any point, to anyone. i have repeatedly mentioned that, for an entity to be of balance and manifest fully, it needs to open and clear its energy centers as much as possible. even leaving that aside, i went to the extent that an entity should not only do these, but also pay equal attention to mind, body and spirit and ignore none of these to be actually balanced.
it seems to me that, because i am not willing to subscribe to the idea of green ray work, green ray should come before all other kinds of rays and work, you are going totally to the opposite and putting the word in my mouth and turning it to 'ignore green ray'.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - CircleofOne - 08-03-2010
To me the analogy of building a home without a foundation seems appropriate. Or recall Q'uo speaking on opening the chakras in a linear fashion, from the ground up. Maybe I'm speaking out of context, but that's how I view it. Living in this veil, we do not really remember how things work, so it may just be a moot point in the end, something that each must decide for themselves, but since we incarnated as 3D beings and are subject to all 3D distortions, why would we not use the tools that are closer to our current grasp (4d concepts), rather than trying to apply higher dimensional concepts that we don't truly understand, and can only approximate and translate into a 3D comprehension? How can we claim to know wisdom, as per 5D, while still wrestling with basic 3D lessons? To say, "I already know these lessons," may be more of an avoidant behaviour, and believe me that I only speak from experience on that!
Regardless, we're all still entitled to unique perspectives, as well as unique purposes for being here. Follow the inner resonances through their lessons, regardless of where they take you.
edit: Sorry to get off topic of Questioner's original line of thought, but I agree with the earlier comments that it may just wind up being too confusing, and too much of a burden for a moderator to verify. For interested members though, perhaps someone would undertake the task of setting up an outside forum for just such content? Not as a competition to this forum of course, but a place for wider discussion of channeled materials?
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - unity100 - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 02:43 PM)CircleofOne Wrote: .................
the building without foundation analogy is always valid. however, it is very damaging and a disservice to always try to remain at the 4th floor, whereas one is expected to go up. the building in this octave needs to be 7 floors, and probably a half.
it is impossible to ignore needed lessons, for they continually come headbutt into entities' lives. however, it is possible to get fixated after learning those lessons. of course, other lessons of the higher kind would start to headbutt after that point, but, the desire is noone should need headbutts, and instead the progression should continue without fixations.
Quote:Shall we drop the side discussion about Unity's interpretations? Whether or not Unity is correct is not relevant since we're discussing an algorithm or test that should be evaluated by every one that has an account on this forum.. I hardly think everyone on the forum can be expected to know the details of densities and wisdom versus love to the level we THINK we know them. And clearly there is controversy even here. So at the very least we should conclude this to be a dead end regarding this topic.
in regard to the understanding of densities and rays, i very much suspect a lot of people have just looked into them in their surface, and hence the resulting differences and confusions.
but, in regard to the side discussion, you are right and i will stop discussing it. i was just responding anyway.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - Questioner - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 02:56 PM)unity100 Wrote: but, in regard to the side discussion, you are right and i will stop discussing it. i was just responding anyway.
I wonder if it might be worthwhile for you to start a new thread in Strictly or Sessions, where you start with the source material and then walk people through the consequences, as you see them, in a step by step manner. I don't want to shut down your expressing your perspectives on the material. Thanks for letting this thread be more focused on the question of forum rules.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - unity100 - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 03:14 PM)Questioner Wrote:(08-03-2010, 02:56 PM)unity100 Wrote: but, in regard to the side discussion, you are right and i will stop discussing it. i was just responding anyway.
I wonder if it might be worthwhile for you to start a new thread in Strictly or Sessions, where you start with the source material and then walk people through the consequences, as you see them, in a step by step manner. I don't want to shut down your expressing your perspectives on the material. Thanks for letting this thread be more focused on the question of forum rules.
i generally prefer talking on things as they come up. it is more natural this way. i dont like to conjure threads out of the blue, unless the concept is very important, vital or intriguing. but, as i said, i will stop discussing that or anything not relevant to this topic.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - Pablísimo - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: these are my conclusions indeed,
Agreed.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: however, i am backing it with what i have been taught by the material we all read, and im providing references to it.
moreover, some of these are basic, simple, direct conclusions of what has been said to us, as you will just see in the block below this one.
in the meantime, if there are anything you want to see referenced in particular from what i am saying, just let me know.
Well, you are basing your conclusions on your PERCEPTION of the Ra material. In my view, you are totally wrong. However, I respect your right to have a different opinion, especially about something so very complex. Both perspectives are valid, but the idea that we don't have to make the 3D Choice again if one is a Wanderer is a very unique interpretation based on the vast majority of posts on the topic by the vast majority of members here. That's really my only point, that your opinion is quite unique and I believe the source of much confusion on this forum.
Unfortunately, given your manner of speaking, manner of using grammar, etc it's not always immediately obvious what you mean when you bring up wisdom. I was once one of your staunchest defenders until I realized with absolute horror that you were actually espousing the idea that pursuing STO polarization was not something a Wanderer should be concerned with.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: it is not me. one of the reasons cited for the wanderer phenomenon in Ra material is, the fact that entities incarnating as wanderers can greatly accelerate their progress by incarnating in 3d, as opposed to continuing their learning in their own densities.
Wanderers are not selfish beings, incarnating in this difficult density is an act of Love and Compassion. It would be exceedingly selfish to incarnate here with the PRIMARY purpose of working on your own lessons in higher dimensions. Do you not see the distinction I am trying to make? That while it is certainly possible to work on advanced lessons, that is not the PRIMARY purpose of a Wanderer's incarnation here. And, to me at least, polarizing positively and sharing love and compassion with Other-Selves IS quite important.
I am trying to avoid getting sucked into another fruitless debate, since in my experience you are not wont to concede even minor points shared by others. If you are not open to LEARNING,if you are only TEACHING and totally convinced of your own perspective, there's little point in discussion. I try to have an underlying humility and respect for other points of view, and in my experience debate is fruitless unless BOTH people share that perspective.
However, I will just say that I think where you're missing the point is that YES, Ra did indicate that incarnating as Wanderers can greatly accelerate their progress in their home densities. However, that is SECONDARY to the primary purpose of incarnating here, which is to radiate love and Re-learn the lessons of this Density so that you can serve as a beacon to other-selves. To lighten the consciousness. Ra certainly did not advocate that Wanderers come here ONLY to work on advanced topics and just forget polarizing STO.
I once asked you directly if you were STO oriented and you told me quite matter of factly that you were above that polarity, that you were "we". I know that doesn't make you STS, it just sounds like a misguided idea that you are in 6D right now instead of a Wanderer in 3D. So please don't misunderstand me, I just want to make it abundantly clear where we are all coming from.
You bring up these points about the advanced growth that is possible, which is totally valid, but somehow reject the idea that 3D lessons are important as well. That is the part that I think is so different.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: first of all, we cannot forget what the dark ones did with the teachings later on. because, it is the very thing that shows how foolish and naive that act was, in that his sacrifice and lack of wisdom has paved the way for a very strong, tight and repressive negative hierarchy to form, and hold entities in its grips until very recently, barring a lot of positive progress and negative progress.
Well, in a grand sense we cannot forget what the dark ones did. However, the negatives will ALWAYS try to twist positivity around. Jesus was not the only Teacher they have done that to. My basic point was that if Jesus had neglected his green ray work, there would have been no Teachings for the dark ones TO corrupt! If he skipped out on making the choice in that incarnation, he wouldn't have had anything of value to the people he taught, and the negatives wouldn't have needed to twist it around to such extremes.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: one can also remember that how similar this naivete is, to the one yahweh exhibited - it has the same exact pattern - their overcompassionate acts without thinking in detail in regard to long term consequences and possibilities of their actions, have resulted in the messages of both entities being usurped by negative entities.
Well, I think given the structure of this world the negatives will always try to corrupt positive messages no matter how well they are developed. Yahwehs actions are a good example of higher density meddling being exceedingly foolish.
However, i don't think the analogy quite works -- why? Because again I am making a distinction between higher density entities and WANDERERS in 3D bodies. I think overall Jesus did a pretty good job overall with his incarnation, even if he did martyr himself. Yahweh on the other hand... not so much, but that was not a Wanderer in a 3D body at the time.
Again and again we come to this, my friend: Wanderer Soul in a 3D body has to do the same basic lessons of a 3D soul in a 3D body, and that includes polarizing and making the choice. Sure they can pick up extra advanced lessons, but that's just a fringe benefit of being here -- it wasn't the purpose of coming to the party.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: secondly, it seems that you are in the impression that higher rays exclude green ray. this is a misconception. blue ray is a higher vibration than green ray, and it also includes green ray characteristics. indigo is higher than blue, and it includes all the other rays' characteristics.
Have you read your own words? It is not me who is pursuing higher ray work to the exclusion of lower ray.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: and in my view, you are, for some reason, trying to limit the existence of wanderer phenomenon to repetition of choice and polarization and the work of green ray.
No, what I am saying is that the advanced work you are talking about is possible, and even important, yes, but NOT to the exclusion of 3D polarization and The Choice. You are telling me that one does not need to polarize and make the Choice if they are a wanderer. I categorically reject this based on my own reading of the Ra material.
By all means pursue advanced work, but it just does not resonate with me to skip 3D work.
This is a fundamental difference in our interpretation of the PURPOSE of being in a 3D body as a Wanderer in the first place. I am not advocating not doing any advanced work... I am advocating doing your PRIMARY 3D Choice/Love and green ray work in tandem with any advanced work you think you are doing.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: and as i have explained, in the block 2 above, i am not making any logical leap of faith at all. wanderers are able to accelerate the progression of their density by incarnating into 3d worlds.
that does mean that the lessons of 4d,5d, 6d, have to be learned by these wanderers in 3d, because, you cannot accelerate 6d progression while incarnated in 3d world, by not learning the lessons of 6d.
What?!?! Wanderer's don't have to learn these higher D lessons while incarnated in a 3D body. You can learn 4D lessons in 4D. You can learn 5D lessons in 5D. You can learn 6D lessons in 6D. That's the whole point of those densities. This Wanderer situation is unusual... the normal progression of Souls is to work through their own densities and graduate within them.
I have no doubt that a 6D entity can pick up some valuable experience from incarnating again in 3D. This is a side benefit to being here, and really small compensation for the enormous difficulty Wanderers have living in this environment. However, the experience picked up here will be parsed by the entity and its Social Memory Complex, and will undoubtedly aid in future growth.
However, the very idea that this is the main point is very selfish. It's bizarre almost... like having a totally STS purpose for doing a major STO act. I see Wanderers as making a great and compassionate sacrifice by incarnating here, not simply doing it to help themselves. The only reason to do something so foolhardy as incarnate on a place like Earth would be a deep and abiding love of Other-Selves. A sincere and pure desire to help increase the positive harvest as much as possible, radiate love, make the Choice all over again and be an inspiration and example to 3D brothers and sisters struggling to make their own choice.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: i base my claim on the fact that wanderers are able to accelerate their progression by incarnating in 3d. it is a simple conclusion.
To the exclusion of all else?
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: for this conclusion to be wrong, entities would need to be able to accelerate their progression in higher densities by ignoring 4,5,6d lessons, and repeating choice and polarization of 3d over and over, while incarnated in 3d.
Why are they mutually exclusive? Why can one not polarize, make the choice, and still work on advanced topics as well?
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: since it is impossible to graduate from any density without learning its lessons, it is impossible. any kind of progression in a density requires lessons and experiences related to that density. that is why more than one density is present.
You are aware, of course, that we are in 3D right?
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: that means, entities incarnating in 3d are not able to, and cannot be able to accelerate their progression by not learning 4, 5, 6d lessons, and its immediate conclusion would be, since these wanderers are able to progress in regard to their own density while incarnated in 3d, they DO learn the lessons of their own densities in 3d.
.... Well, my opinion is that they have to Re-Learn the lessons of love in this density. And that they can gather some experience for use in higher densities, but ultimately one can only make real progress within their home density.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: with this conclusion, it would mean that an entity would be learning whatever lessons it has to learn in 3d, as opposed to its own density.
Can't you do both? Make your choice, polarize positively, and then work on advanced topics? Otherwise, is incarnating here STS or STO? Honestly, who did you come to serve? Yes I know we are all One, but you know what I mean by that question.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: this may be blue ray work, entity may be lacking in wisdom or communication or other concepts, hence the entity may become a poet, a writer, or a teacher, or it may be indigo ray work, the entity may keep to a monastery or do extensive meditation or engage in sciences or any kind of creative activity that involves indigo ray work, or the entity may be lacking in compassion and it may become a father, mother, an orphanage manager, this or that.
it totally depends on whatever particular energy/evolutionary model the entity has at that given time and what it needs to do or it can do in a given 3d planet.
that means, wanderers' lessons and service is not limited to green ray manifestations, as you so insistently claim.
No, sir, I do not insistently claim that a Wanderer's service is limited to Green ray. What I claim is that a Wanderer must not work on higher level lessons to the EXCLUSION of Green-ray work. And absolutely Wanderers can offer service in many different ways, but remember the primary reason -- to radiate love, to raise consciousness, to polarize and be a beacon for Other-Selves. That's what I'm saying.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: again, you are reducing an entire creation to green ray as a corollary of your approach.
service does not mean green ray love. but maybe more importantly, existence does not mean green ray. green ray, is just one of the 7 densities in this octave only. there are infinite number of octaves before this one, and after this one.
No sir, again. You are right about existence in general. I am talking about 3D, where we are both incarnated now. And in 3D, the primary service a wanderer provides is indeed green ray love, per the Ra material. There is a beautiful, infinitely vast array of services that can be provided, but let us not lose sight of the primary purpose.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: the proposition that 'wanderers having ONLY incarnated to work on their own higher-ray work that they have a home density for is selfish' is extremely devoid of links with base principles of rays and densities by the way.
You really feel that way? Again, I'm basing my opinions on what the Ra material actually says about Wanderers and the primary purpose.
You don't feel that only incarnating to help your own evolution without thought to helping others is not inherently selfish?
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: leaving the fact that all higher rays include vibrations of all the lower rays in them, the above proposition says that if a wanderer here had only worked on blue ray, or indigo ray, that would mean that it would be selfish, self centered.
so, then, blue ray, indigo ray, are self oriented rays ? wouldnt this also directly lead to a conclusion that, 5d, 6d, positive manifestations are also selfish ?
noone is able to make use of keyboards, monitor screens, computers, mass transportation vehicles, or poems, books then ?
since these are the results of 'selfish' rays, because, innumerable wanderers and entities have worked on these rays, instead of green ray ?
No, sir, that is not what I'm saying. Again, I object to skipping the polarization process. In fact, as I recall the very hallmark of STS adepts is to bypass greenray and jump straight to blue.
My point is that we don't have to limit ourselves to Green ray work, but we absolutely should not completely skip it.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: on the final note, you can also find quotes from mark twain, winston churchill, or even napoleon, regarding compassion or love. but, that doesnt mean that their existence and manifestation was of a green ray manifestation, or they were wanderers.
Hmm, perhaps you missed my point there. I was trying to provide an example of an obvious Wanderer who has obviously contributed greatly in technical and scientific areas, who at the same time did not neglect his Choice. Who polarized positively IN TANDEM with his advanced work.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: i dont remember any extensive supporting evidence in the discussion in pms, regarding how manifesting green ray love was the duty of a wanderer. i remember you trying to limit the existence of a wanderer in a 3d veiled planet to manifestation and repeating of the choice, and polarization of 3d. however it seems that you have rather changed your approach, and you are now also recognizing other rays.
I do not wish to call anyone a liar, so I would invite you simply to re-read them in that case.
Again I point out that if one is totally closeminded to other perspectives, if one only believes they are here to TEACH rather than to learn as well (remember THAT conversation?), then there's little value in discussing anything.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: i do not remember at any point telling 'forget green ray work' in any topic, in any occasion, at any point, to anyone. i have repeatedly mentioned that, for an entity to be of balance and manifest fully, it needs to open and clear its energy centers as much as possible. even leaving that aside, i went to the extent that an entity should not only do these, but also pay equal attention to mind, body and spirit and ignore none of these to be actually balanced.
Well you often don't speak directly, but I think a fair reading of all of your posts with the understanding that you reject STO polarization will bear up my remarks.
(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: it seems to me that, because i am not willing to subscribe to the idea of green ray work, green ray should come before all other kinds of rays and work, you are going totally to the opposite and putting the word in my mouth and turning it to 'ignore green ray'.
I apologize for putting any words in your mouth, if that is indeed what I have done. I was only sharing my perceptions.
I don't know what to say to that block... in the first part you write "I am not willing to subscribe to the idea of green ray work" and in the last part you said I am turning it into "ignore green ray".
Look, as I have said before I believe we are all mirrors for eachother. If one is sending out negative energy, if one is chomping at the bit for an argumentative debate, if there is no underlying respect, love and compassion for the Other-selves with whom one is debating, then I believe we are achieving nothing other than spreading negativity. I will not participate in that kind of closed-loop negativity much longer.
I have achieved my goal with these posts in making it absolutely clear for everyone where you are coming from the next time you mention wisdom. I completely trust that the members on this forum will use their own discernment and will respond to your ideas appropriately on any topic you choose to engage in.
Having completely failed to lovingly, compassionately, reach out to you privately and find common ground, I have done what I see as my duty to the group to at least get these issues on the table so that EVERYONE can evaluate future topics with eyes wide open. You can believe polarizing STO is not important, that is absolutely your right, but no longer will those ideas slide under the radar.
I do not intend to respond line by line in another series of posts or bore anyone else with my long text and opinions.
I wish you peace, blessings and love. I respect your ideas, even if you do not respect mine. I honor your right to your perspective, even it does not match my own.
Respect, humility, love, STO polarization, and compassion are important to me. I make no apologies for that. If these same ideas are not so important to you, that is absolutely your right as a beautiful expression of the One Infinite Creator. However, it puts you at odds with those polarizing STO.
Love to all
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - unity100 - 08-03-2010
as i noted before, if you wish to discuss this, you should open a new thread, or request this thread be split, since i wont be participating in sidetracking this topic.
6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Pablísimo - 08-03-2010
(08-03-2010, 02:45 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Shall we drop the side discussion about Unity's interpretations?
Sorry, Ali, you are completely right. I actually already posted my latest reply while you were typing that and did not see it until now.
I did it again, posted instead of remaining silent like I try to do. What I see as a slow corruption infecting the forum has just been bothering me lately.
My apologies for helping to get the thread off topic, questioner. If there were a way to delete my own posts here, I would.
I'm done posting, completely, that I promise.
Love to all
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - Monica - 08-04-2010
What does Ra say about the purpose of incarnating as a Wanderer?
(08-03-2010, 04:03 PM)Pablísimo Wrote:(08-03-2010, 02:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: it seems to me that, because i am not willing to subscribe to the idea of green ray work, green ray should come before all other kinds of rays and work, you are going totally to the opposite and putting the word in my mouth and turning it to 'ignore green ray'.
I apologize for putting any words in your mouth, if that is indeed what I have done. I was only sharing my perceptions.
I don't know what to say to that block... in the first part you write "I am not willing to subscribe to the idea of green ray work" and in the last part you said I am turning it into "ignore green ray".
Unity, could you please clarify this statement:
Quote:it seems to me that, because i am not willing to subscribe to the idea of green ray work, green ray should come before all other kinds of rays and work,
Did you mean that you aren't willing to subscribe to the idea of green ray work at all
...or...
Did you mean that you aren't willing to subscribe to the idea of putting green ray work above the work of the other rays?
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Peregrinus - 08-04-2010
The importance of opening all the rays and balancing them as per Ra's description would be in the best interests of the wanderer, and a predilection to working in only specific ray(s) would not appear to be prudent. Failure to work "from the bottom up" will result in an imbalance which may result in a repeat of the density, irregardless of polarity or lack thereof. The steps of light are met with balance, not strength.
Quote:38.5 Ra: ... let us use as an example a Wanderer; the rays may be viewed as extremely even, red, orange, yellow. The green ray is extremely bright. This is, shall we say, balanced by a dimmer indigo. Between these two the point of balance resides, the blue ray of the communicator sparkling in strength above the ordinary. In the violet ray we see this unique spectrograph, if you will, and at the same time the pure violet surrounding the whole; this in turn, surrounded by that which mixes the red and violet ray, indicating the integration of mind, body, and spirit; this surrounded in turn by the vibratory pattern of this entity’s true density.
This description may be seen to be both unbalanced and in perfect balance. The latter understanding is extremely helpful in dealing with other-selves. The ability to feel blockages is useful only to the healer. There is not properly a tiny fraction of judgment when viewing a balance in colors. Of course when we see many of the energy plexi weakened and blocked, we may understand that an entity has not yet grasped the baton and begun the race. However, the potentials are always there. All the rays fully balanced are there in waiting to be activated.
Perhaps another way to address your query is this: In the fully potentiated entity the rays mount one upon the other with equal vibratory brilliance and scintillating sheen until the surrounding color is white. This is what you may call potentiated balance in third-density.
Quote:41.18 Ra: I am Ra. ... This is why the brilliance or rotational speed of the energy centers is not considered above the balanced aspect or violet ray manifestation of an entity in regarding harvestability; for those entities which are unbalanced, especially as to the primary rays, will not be capable of sustaining the impact of the love and light of intelligent infinity to the extent necessary for harvest.
Indeed Unity100 is correct in that a (4,5,6,7)D spirit does not require polarization for work in those densities.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - Questioner - 08-04-2010
Thanks, Monica, for splitting off this discussion.
(08-03-2010, 12:59 PM)unity100 Wrote: at this moment one needs to remind that majority of wanderers here, are from 6d.
that means, they all need to render their unique service, whatever that is, and this is theirs to discover. no all encompassing, mass-manufactured definition can be applied to all of them in regard to energy model or their service, since these entities are from a lot of places from this galaxy, if not entire universe, and diverse in nature.
unity100, I feel that you are objecting to a kind of straw man caricature which other people here are not advocating.
I don't have the exact citations for what I'm going to mention, but they should be easy enough to find and I think they've come up in other threads on the forum.
The Ra material is pretty clear that even in 3D, it is not possible to predefine what people should do. It is an efficient use of time to choose to polarize before Harvest. Some entities choose to not polarize, or don't choose at all, and therefore will have another 75,000 year opportunity. I get the impression that Ra does not judge about this, simply observes and offers help to those who do wish to polarize.
For those who do polarize towards service to others, "nothing is known" about how best for each entity to implement that intention of service. The service may or may not ever be recognizable to other 3D entities as the intent to fulfill a spiritual polarity.
For those polarizing, some are Wanderers and it seems to me that Ra also respects that the service of Wanderers may happen in any number of ways, which may or may not be recognizable in 3D as STO service attempts.
The only particular progression I see Ra being rather insistent about is that all entities eventually progress spiritually through polarization to leave 3D, through the lessons of compassion in 4D, wisdom in 5D, balance in 6D, integrating polarities in 6 or 7D; and that in 3D, we can best spiritually evolve through opening the chakras in sequence through seeking the love and balance in each moment.
Given all of that, what are the things Ra and Q'uo said which lead you to think that "all encompassing mass manufactured definition" is something that that LLR material attempts to impose on anyone, let alone 6D Wanderers? If Ra and Q'uo are respectful of diversity, then in what ways is that respect undermined by their followers? (Leaving aside the whole forum rules question... what ELSE tries to shove everyone into the same box?) Am I missing something here?
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - βαθμιαίος - 08-04-2010
(08-04-2010, 07:59 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: What does Ra say about the purpose of incarnating as a Wanderer?
52.9 Wrote:Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.
The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.
There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.
The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.
The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.
Note the mention of polarization. This would seem to agree with Pablísimo's argument, as would the emphasis on the altruistic nature of choosing to wander (lightening of vibrations, offering of catalyst).
Although, it must be admitted, unity100 is certainly offering catalyst to those here. He reminds me a little of the fifth-density wanderers that came to Ra's third density on Venus and found the overabundance of love sickening.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - Monica - 08-04-2010
(08-04-2010, 11:48 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Note the mention of polarization. This would seem to agree with Pablísimo's argument, as would the emphasis on the altruistic nature of choosing to wander (lightening of vibrations, offering of catalyst).
Although, it must be admitted, unity100 is certainly offering catalyst to those here. He reminds me a little of the fifth-density wanderers that came to Ra's third density on Venus and found the overabundance of love sickening.
I think they're both right. And, unity100's focus on balancing the chakras and learning wisdom is certainly supported by Ra.
If many of us are Wanderers, we cannot assume that we all incarnated with the same objective. Ra states that there are several reasons.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - unity100 - 08-05-2010
(08-04-2010, 07:59 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Did you mean that you aren't willing to subscribe to the idea of putting green ray work above the work of the other rays?
this. one comma there is probably confusing you.
however, the thing is that, an entity doing a higher frequency work would appear as 'not working' in the green ray, to the mindset of pablissimo and similar.
if we consider the case of franklin d roosevelt, who we know to be a wanderer, and remember his life and his activities, pablissimo wouldnt be able to find green ray work in the manner he desires in his life and activities.
yet, we know that this entity has quickly activated yellow and green rays, and then started to work on blue ray, thanks to a harmonious and easy childhood, according to what Ra says.
so, this entity had all his lower 4 chakras open, and was working on blue, when in politics. with his wife being his teacher. (probably in regard to blue).
yet, from what i understand, it would be impossible for pablissimo to find enough 'love' had he been dealing with him.
(08-04-2010, 10:22 PM)Questioner Wrote: unity100, I feel that you are objecting to a kind of straw man caricature which other people here are not advocating.
this is not a matter in-general, this is a matter rather specific to pablissimo, and the private discussion we had through pm. it is a continuance of that. otherwise its not like that i am making a broad declaration in that regard and objecting to anything. he brought the matter up.
Quote:The Ra material is pretty clear that even in 3D, it is not possible to predefine what people should do. It is an efficient use of time to choose to polarize before Harvest. Some entities choose to not polarize, or don't choose at all, and therefore will have another 75,000 year opportunity. I get the impression that Ra does not judge about this, simply observes and offers help to those who do wish to polarize.
For those who do polarize towards service to others, "nothing is known" about how best for each entity to implement that intention of service. The service may or may not ever be recognizable to other 3D entities as the intent to fulfill a spiritual polarity.
For those polarizing, some are Wanderers and it seems to me that Ra also respects that the service of Wanderers may happen in any number of ways
that is the gist of the matter. pablissimo thinks that wanderers are also here to polarize, REDO 3d choices of positive or negative, and should all polarize and act in green ray, over all other rays.
in the private discussion, he was adamant on the idea that wanderers (of 4, 5, 6d) were here to polarize, redo the 3d choices, and act in green ray. in here at least, he recognizes that there are other rays to be considered too, but his stance still is bent on making all wanderers act as 4d entities of green ray.
Quote:Note the mention of polarization. This would seem to agree with Pablísimo's argument, as would the emphasis on the altruistic nature of choosing to wander (lightening of vibrations, offering of catalyst).
notice though,
the first task of a wanderer, in regard to OTHER entities, is the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions. higher frequency vibrations, less distorted consciousness.
this is where pablissimo's idea falls short :
as we know from Ra, green ray entity is inefficient in the wake of blockages of other entities. green ray entity is not a co creator, not an entity that has the knowledge and wisdom of the dance of existence yet. therefore, it is harder for a green ray entity to identify issues, determine causes of blockages, and the best way (if possible) to remove/alleviate those blockages.
green ray entity can only accept another entity as it is, and expect the power of love to transform the other entity. this, may work on occasions that the other entity doesnt have a strong conditioning, or, if the green ray entity's green ray activity is much more powerful compared to the other entity's ray activities. but tho, there is also the possibility that such overloading of love may lead to further distortions on the other entity. (spoiledness, ego, this that).
blue ray and over activities are higher vibrations. introduction of these into the planetary sphere heals much more issues, fixes much more blockages, and lightens the planetary consciousness.
had it been otherwise, we wouldnt have buddha. we wouldnt have taoists, we wouldnt have zen, and many other philosophies and wanderers regarding that.
you wouldnt be able to identify the kind of green ray activity in regard to other selves in buddha philosophy, or in his life, that pablissimo wants the wanderers to manifest. yet, this entity was probably one of the most successful wanderers, and of a quite high ray activity. i dont need to talk about the balancing effects of his work and his activity on the consciousness of this planet, i believe.
........................
in regard to polarization of the wanderer's own self, it is one of the two reasons Ra cites for the reasons a wanderer incarnates. it is not the sole purpose.
however, polarization is not directly relevant to the progress of an entity in a higher density - as far as we know, the harvest for 5d from 4d, happens only with the entities which are ready to take the responsibility of learning. it doesnt matter whether they are polarized 99%, or 90%.
it is also to be remembered that, polarization is the power, potential to do work. as we are taught by Ra. a wanderer polarizing, therefore increasing its own power to do work in its field of activity. it is something good, but, it would not relate directly to progress.
however i am suspecting there is a chance that polarization be important for 4d entities to reach the end of 4d, to be able to go through the harvest of 5d.
..........................
but these are all peripherals. for, the real issue here pablissimo holds against me, is not any of these. these are all his rationalizations, from what i understand from the private discussion.
the problem is, he thinks that the forum was a more 'loving' place, before i came. and, now, it is not so loving anymore, and formal.
i queried him, what kind of a loving place can someplace be, if it breaks down to aggression and discord at the slightest disagreement.
the definition of love is, accepting the other selves AS they are, HOW they are, DESPITE what they are (at least in your eyes).
it is easy to 'love' or be in a 'loving' environment as long as everyone hides their differences, and differences are ignored, rather than accepted. why, you could set up such an environment in the office, workplace even. all that is missing would be the addition of 'i love you bro/sis' at the end of every other sentence. and then it would be all cozy, and well, and 'loving' ...
not.
it would be fake. it would be a lie. it wouldnt even help anyone to progress positively or negatively, because, it would be an illusion. positive path requires honesty, before anything. for, if you are not honest, you cannot accept and love yourself, and if the other people are not honest, you cannot see their differences and love them DESPITE the differences.
...............
then it turned to the 'tone' of my speech and posts. at this point, i have said that, my tone and speech was as polite and formal as it could be. and actually, if you just remove the 'we leave you in the light and love of creator' etc bits from occasional end of session remarks from Ra material, ra material often ends up being way too offstandish and 'unloving' than my text. as i said before, after reading silver birch, bartholomew, i was finding Ra quite 'cold' back in 1995 myself.
there are various other side objections and issues. for example my seeking without polarization. he thinks that this makes one service to self. albeit, ra is seeking without polarity as they state themselves, yet, we are all here, reading their text and learning, including pablissimo. actually if im not mistaken this was the point where he started arguing that the mission of wanderers incarnating into a 3d world was to do green ray activity.
..................
so is the general summary of the situation. ie, my objection at a strawman argument that people are bringing, is 'not'. because, as you said, there are but few people who are bringing such ideas and arguments, and i dont see it necessary to continually come up with counter arguments. yet, this was specifically brought up by pablissimo, hence, the need to respond.
otherwise i am myself too tired of arguing with people who are in the opinion that 'god is love' (green ray) or everything should be love, this that, all the while using and enjoying the service provided to them by higher ray activities, such as the very computers and the internet they are using to talk over.
one thing this episode thought me however, is, what Ra meant by '4d entities need the entities of their own density'.
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Namaste - 08-05-2010
Due to the importance of this topic, I'd like to share my own opinion, with some simple logic, steps and quotes.
1. Wanderers in 3rd density abide by 3rd density laws. Crucially, no matter the source density, a Wanderer's harvestability is dependant on their polarisation of service.
2. Wanderers from 4th, 5th and 6th densities have already graduated to said densities, and hence, already learned the lessons of 3rd, 4th and 5th. If they had not, they could not have graduated, and could not be defined as Wanderers. A simple, but prominent point in this discussion.
3. Hence, Wanderers have incarnated here to be of service to others in 3rd density, and not to learn lessons in densities they have already graduated from.
A single - specific - quote from Ra, confirms this. The bolded section is the crux of this discussion, and is clear.
Ra Wrote:Thusly the positively oriented Wanderer chooses to hazard the danger of the forgetting
in order to be of service to others by radiating love of others. If the
forgetting is penetrated the amount of catalyst in third-density will polarize
the Wanderer with much greater efficiency than shall be expected in the
higher and more harmonious densities.
STO Wanderers are here to help and service those in 3rd density, which means, abiding by the laws (specifically the veil), and radiating love and light through various individual means. Since third density is all about polarisation, the clear link here is that Wanderers are here to help others (and hence Gaia as a whole). They have graduated through 3rd, 4th and 5th density, learning lessons that we could quite possibly not even comprehend.
Regarding the lessons of higher densities while in 3rd density...
The assumption that activating blue and indigo rays is equal to learning 5th and 6th density lessons is of considerable consequence. This is not specifically stated by Ra, or Q'uo, at all. This is a subjective perspective.
It is stated many times that activation is achieved with regard to 3rd density lessons, catalyst and balancing. Some quotes to support this...
Quite ironically, the blockage in blue-ray is the basis of many forum discussions :¬)
Ra Wrote:The blue-ray center of energy streaming is the center which, for the first
time, is outgoing as well as inpouring. Those blocked in this area may have
difficulty in grasping the spirit/mind complexes of its own entity and
further difficulty in expressing such understandings of self. Entities blocked
in this area may have difficulties in accepting communication from other
mind/body/spirit complexes.
The key point is that opening the-blue ray is the expression and communication of the truth for the self, and the acceptance other selve's expressed truths. Another quote to back this up:
Ra Wrote:The blue ray energy transfer is somewhat rare among your people at this
time but is of great aid due to energy transfers involved in becoming able to
express the self without reservation or fear.
On to opening the indigo...
Ra Wrote:The next center is the pineal or indigo-ray center. Those blocked in this
center may experience a lessening of the influx of intelligent energy due to
manifestations which appear as unworthiness.
Ra Wrote:The new material is this: once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of
the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of
the individual. The indigo ray is opened only through considerable
discipline and practice largely having to do with acceptance of self, not only
as the polarized and balanced self but as the Creator, as an entity of infinite
worth. This will begin to activate the indigo ray.
Again, both are clear, and are part of the natural balancing we go through in 3rd density. one does not have to perform rituals or meditations, or learn any 'higher lessons' to activate and balance these higher rays. In fact, in trying to do so, one can miss the abundantly clear lesson of this density.
Ra Wrote:The indigo ray, though precious, is that ray worked upon only by the adept,
as you would call it. It is the gateway to intelligent infinity bringing
intelligent energy through. This is the energy center worked upon in those
teachings considered inner, hidden, and occult, for this ray is that which is
infinite in its possibilities. As you are aware, those who heal, teach, and
work for the Creator in any way which may be seen to be both radiant and
balanced are those activities which are indigo ray.
Again, the activation of indigo ray comes about from service-to-others actions (teaching and healing as above examples). The crucial point here is that the positive polarisation choice is made in the green-ray and once this is made the balanced entity may then proceed to activate blue and indigo, quite naturally, through balancing.
Service to self entities skip the positive balancing of the green ray, seeing it as unnecessary (or not even acknowledging it).
unity100 Wrote:blue ray and over activities are higher vibrations. introduction of these into the planetary sphere heals much more issues, fixes much more blockages, and lightens the planetary consciousness.
This comment is in opposition as to what Ra and Quo state regarding Wanderers beings beacons of light and love. The activated blue ray is a communicative expression of this love. The green ray - the ray this Earth and its inhabitants are being harvested for - is the source of this love and compassion. It's the path of evolution, third to fourth density, entities being compassionate enough to graduate. If there is no source of love from green-ray, no amount of blue-ray activity will make that entity harvestable.
It's the reason STO Wanderers have incarnated. To be of service to others, helping them polarise, sharing light and love. That is the definition of a Wanderer...
Ra Wrote:Thusly the positively oriented Wanderer chooses to hazard the danger of the forgetting in order to be of service to others by radiating love of others
One may miss the harvest if placing the accumulation of higher density wisdom before polarisation and service in third density.
Note: those interested in synchronicities and numerology, check the time of this post :¬)
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - unity100 - 08-05-2010
first, i would like to clear a common misconception about wanderers, and harvests.
there is no mandatory 'harvest' for wanderers. wanderer already is a higher density entity as namaste points out. no harvest of 3d entity happens for them in a 3d world, except, it chances up with their own harvest :
a 6d entity which incarnates into a 3d world, leaves its 6d body out from mind/body/spirit complex, and incarantes into a 3d body.
the resulting is a mind/body/spirit complex with a 6d spirit - this is most important - 3d body, and veil in between its subconscious and conscious mind. its mind may be shaped and conditioned according to the societal mind of the plane it is incarnating in. but, its subconscious will still remain in its natural state, since it will be veiled from the conscious. remembering process for wanderers is penetrating the veil and reaching subconscious anyway, hence, the subconscious has to remain as it is, for the wanderer to be able to remember anything.
but most importantly, spirit is the spirit. it doesnt change. spiritual biases, preferences and colors are the hardest and longest to change, and it is the basis of the entire octave evolution. all the good things as well as all the bad things and hardships one endures in the way to evolve the spirit.
spirit doesnt become a clueless 3d spirit when incarnated into a 3d world. it still remains with the true color of its density in its own nature, even if it gets tinted with the dominant color/ray of the planetary sphere.
if it had not been otherwise, wanderer incarnation would be a one way trip to 3d, with no return. they would need to go all the way back, leave aside being able to remember what they are, while in 3d.
'remembering' is a concept that requires to have something to remember. how can a soul remember ? it can remember only if there are things that can remember.
example cases for this situation from Ra material are as follows :
how Carla's soul starts to take on the nature/vibrations of Ra's density, because she was being held there during sessions. it was mentioned somewhere, if im not mistaken, during a talk regarding some hardships.
how the 5d wanderers incarnating into Ra's sphere, after they got disincarnated, had seen that they went negative from positive, and had done some negative work in 4d, and then incarnated into Ra to redo some 4d work. they did not reincarnate into a 3d world, to redo choice, to go through a harvest again.
the simple case of death as explained by Ra :
when the entity dies (any entity lower than 6d apparently) leaves a body, it directly goes to the 'formmaker' time/space body of 6d. it stays there until aether is penetrated, and then revises incarnation (if applicable), and then returns to the body that is suitable for its mind/spirit complex.
notice. in NO case, spirit is out of the picture. it always there. whatever its true nature is, it is of that nature and density.
thus, if you take a 6d mind/body/spirit complex and it leaves its body and becomes a mind/spirit complex to be incarnated into another body, its STILL a 6d entity in nature. when it incarnates into another body, only the physical body part of the mind/body/spirit complex changes. and mind gets conditioned/limited.
it doesnt become a 3d entity. it is a 6d soul, in a 3d body.
(08-05-2010, 08:23 AM)Namaste Wrote: 1. Wanderers in 3rd density abide by 3rd density laws. Crucially, no matter the source density, a Wanderer's harvestability is dependant on their polarisation of service.
that is not correct.
the 4d harvest, for example, requires the ability to be able to accept and use light, ie 'understanding of the dance', wisdom, as Ra puts it. it doesnt matter how much you polarize, if you are not able to take responsibility of understanding and wisdom, you cant graduate.
we do not know the requirements of harvest for 5d end, and 6d end, therefore we cant directly comment. but, we know that there is no direct correlation of harvest in between polarization and harvest.
moreover, there is no relevance in between harvests of 1d, 2d too. one should not ignore or discount these densities, for these are also densities which express a major step in the manifestation of infinite intelligence, as infinite intelligence made it. the requirement for 2d graduation is being aware that self is an entity and there are other entities, the requirement for 1d graduation is the desire and need for progression by its own concentration, rather than being shaped by external forces.
that means, there are at least 3 densities which has no relevance to polarization in regard to harvest.
Quote:2. Wanderers from 4th, 5th and 6th densities have already graduated to said densities, and hence, already learned the lessons of 3rd, 4th and 5th. If they had not, they could not have graduated, and could not be defined as Wanderers. A simple, but prominent point in this discussion.
3. Hence, Wanderers have incarnated here to be of service to others in 3rd density, and not to learn lessons in densities they have already graduated from.
that is my approach. albeit, the 'we could quite possibly not even comprehend' part is misplaced.
Quote:...........
it is wrong to get inclined to equate blue, indigo and higher rays with magical properties. any kind of interaction in between entities carry these potentials.
a balance of self vs others, is an indigo matter. the 'we' understanding, the one that is not of the herd (orange) understanding, is an indigo matter. the feeling of unity, unison, is an indigo matter.
an invention is an indigo matter. science is an indigo matter. inspiration is an indigo matter.
a poem is a blue matter. it also has inspiration. a novel is a blue matter. a song, is a blue matter.
all of these require sufficient amount of their dominant rays to be present to be able to manifested. "artist's blockage", for example, isnt something that is magical. it involves blockage of various rays, very probably indigo and blue centers.
'we cannot possibly comprehend', therefore, is a totally off statement. leave aside comprehending, everyone is using the fruits of these in everyday life.
Quote:unity100 Wrote:blue ray and over activities are higher vibrations. introduction of these into the planetary sphere heals much more issues, fixes much more blockages, and lightens the planetary consciousness.
This comment is in opposition as to what Ra and Quo state regarding Wanderers beings beacons of light and love. The activated blue ray is a communicative expression of this love. The green ray - the ray this Earth and its inhabitants are being harvested for - is the source of this love and compassion. It's the path of evolution, third to fourth density, entities being compassionate enough to graduate. If there is no source of love from green-ray, no amount of blue-ray activity will make that entity harvestable.
this misconception results from the fact that there is not two separate words in english language for green ray, and the manifestation of consciousness that happens right after intelligent infinity starts activity.
they are both called 'love' in english. moreover, what french call amore is also called love in english.
this leads to misconceptions, and causes a lot of entities to increasingly confuse even intelligent infinity with green ray vibration, due to the wordage.
there are many different words for the immediate result of infinite intelligence's decision of experiencing itself with free will, which, as far as i understand, also coincides with the octave density of this particular octave. (this is the extent of what we know anyway). in turn, it is also the nature of intelligent infinity that is experienced by every entity differently, as Ra tells us.
some name it 'peace', some name it 'tranquility', some name it 'joy', some call it 'grace', some call it 'being', and some of these are taken as names for this manifestation and understanding.
it is this vibration/understanding that is called 'love' in english for a lack of better word. it is not green ray love. it is not amore. it contains ALL the vibrations and understandings of this octave.
'radiation of self' in the highest form energetically, is radiation of that energy, as far as we know it. (for this octave anyway).
Quote:It's the reason STO Wanderers have incarnated. Not to learn high density lessons, but to be of service to others, helping them polarise, sharing light and love. That is the definition of a Wanderer...
it is not 'the'r eason sto wanderers have incarnated, as per the below quote.
Quote:Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.
The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.
There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.
The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.
The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.
there is more than one reason, but, the reason regarding the other selves, is lightening the planetary consciousness.
and as we see, there is indeed an aspect that involves progressing and evolving the entity in 3d sphere, compared to its own density.
i actually have talked about this in the earlier post. this has been a repetition. maybe you havent read that post.
Quote:One may miss the harvest if placing the accumulation of higher density wisdom before polarisation and service in third density.
again, wanderers do not get harvested.
(08-05-2010, 08:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: first, i would like to clear a common misconception about wanderers, and harvests.
there is no mandatory 'harvest' for wanderers. wanderer already is a higher density entity as namaste points out. no harvest of 3d entity happens for them in a 3d world, except, it chances up with their own harvest :
a 6d entity which incarnates into a 3d world, leaves its 6d body out from mind/body/spirit complex, and incarantes into a 3d body.
the resulting is a mind/body/spirit complex with a 6d spirit - this is most important - 3d body, and veil in between its subconscious and conscious mind. its mind may be shaped and conditioned according to the societal mind of the plane it is incarnating in. but, its subconscious will still remain in its natural state, since it will be veiled from the conscious. remembering process for wanderers is penetrating the veil and reaching subconscious anyway, hence, the subconscious has to remain as it is, for the wanderer to be able to remember anything.
but most importantly, spirit is the spirit. it doesnt change. spiritual biases, preferences and colors are the hardest and longest to change, and it is the basis of the entire octave evolution. all the good things as well as all the bad things and hardships one endures in the way to evolve the spirit.
spirit doesnt become a clueless 3d spirit when incarnated into a 3d world. it still remains with the true color of its density in its own nature, even if it gets tinted with the dominant color/ray of the planetary sphere.
if it had not been otherwise, wanderer incarnation would be a one way trip to 3d, with no return. they would need to go all the way back, leave aside being able to remember what they are, while in 3d.
'remembering' is a concept that requires to have something to remember. how can a soul remember ? it can remember only if there are things that can remember.
example cases for this situation from Ra material are as follows :
how Carla's soul starts to take on the nature/vibrations of Ra's density, because she was being held there during sessions. it was mentioned somewhere, if im not mistaken, during a talk regarding some hardships.
how the 5d wanderers incarnating into Ra's sphere, after they got disincarnated, had seen that they went negative from positive, and had done some negative work in 4d, and then incarnated into Ra to redo some 4d work. they did not reincarnate into a 3d world, to redo choice, to go through a harvest again.
the simple case of death as explained by Ra :
when the entity dies (any entity lower than 6d apparently) leaves a body, it directly goes to the 'formmaker' time/space body of 6d. it stays there until aether is penetrated, and then revises incarnation (if applicable), and then returns to the body that is suitable for its mind/spirit complex.
notice. in NO case, spirit is out of the picture. it always there. whatever its true nature is, it is of that nature and density.
thus, if you take a 6d mind/body/spirit complex and it leaves its body and becomes a mind/spirit complex to be incarnated into another body, its STILL a 6d entity in nature. when it incarnates into another body, only the physical body part of the mind/body/spirit complex changes. and mind gets conditioned/limited.
it doesnt become a 3d entity. it is a 6d soul, in a 3d body.
[quote='Namaste' pid='17778' dateline='1281011032']
1. Wanderers in 3rd density abide by 3rd density laws. Crucially, no matter the source density, a Wanderer's harvestability is dependant on their polarisation of service.
that is not correct.
the 4d harvest, for example, requires the ability to be able to accept and use light, ie 'understanding of the dance', wisdom, as Ra puts it. it doesnt matter how much you polarize, if you are not able to take responsibility of understanding and wisdom, you cant graduate.
we do not know the requirements of harvest for 5d end, and 6d end, therefore we cant directly comment. but, we know that there is no direct correlation of harvest in between polarization and harvest.
moreover, there is no relevance in between harvests of 1d, 2d too. one should not ignore or discount these densities, for these are also densities which express a major step in the manifestation of infinite intelligence, as infinite intelligence made it. the requirement for 2d graduation is being aware that self is an entity and there are other entities, the requirement for 1d graduation is the desire and need for progression by its own concentration, rather than being shaped by external forces.
that means, there are at least 3 densities which has no relevance to polarization in regard to harvest.
Quote:2. Wanderers from 4th, 5th and 6th densities have already graduated to said densities, and hence, already learned the lessons of 3rd, 4th and 5th. If they had not, they could not have graduated, and could not be defined as Wanderers. A simple, but prominent point in this discussion.
3. Hence, Wanderers have incarnated here to be of service to others in 3rd density, and not to learn lessons in densities they have already graduated from.
that is my approach. albeit, the 'we could quite possibly not even comprehend' part is misplaced.
Quote:...........
it is wrong to get inclined to equate blue, indigo and higher rays with magical properties. any kind of interaction in between entities carry these potentials.
a balance of self vs others, is an indigo matter. the 'we' understanding, the one that is not of the herd (orange) understanding, is an indigo matter. the feeling of unity, unison, is an indigo matter.
an invention is an indigo matter. science is an indigo matter. inspiration is an indigo matter.
a poem is a blue matter. it also has inspiration. a novel is a blue matter. a song, is a blue matter.
all of these require sufficient amount of their dominant rays to be present to be able to manifested. "artist's blockage", for example, isnt something that is magical. it involves blockage of various rays, very probably indigo and blue centers.
'we cannot possibly comprehend', therefore, is a totally off statement. leave aside comprehending, everyone is using the fruits of these in everyday life.
Quote:unity100 Wrote:blue ray and over activities are higher vibrations. introduction of these into the planetary sphere heals much more issues, fixes much more blockages, and lightens the planetary consciousness.
This comment is in opposition as to what Ra and Quo state regarding Wanderers beings beacons of light and love. The activated blue ray is a communicative expression of this love. The green ray - the ray this Earth and its inhabitants are being harvested for - is the source of this love and compassion. It's the path of evolution, third to fourth density, entities being compassionate enough to graduate. If there is no source of love from green-ray, no amount of blue-ray activity will make that entity harvestable.
this misconception results from the fact that there is not two separate words in english language for green ray, and the manifestation of consciousness that happens right after intelligent infinity starts activity.
they are both called 'love' in english. moreover, what french call amore is also called love in english.
this leads to misconceptions, and causes a lot of entities to increasingly confuse even intelligent infinity with green ray vibration, due to the wordage.
there are many different words for the immediate result of infinite intelligence's decision of experiencing itself with free will, which, as far as i understand, also coincides with the octave density of this particular octave. (this is the extent of what we know anyway). in turn, it is also the nature of intelligent infinity that is experienced by every entity differently, as Ra tells us.
some name it 'peace', some name it 'tranquility', some name it 'joy', some call it 'grace', some call it 'being', and some of these are taken as names for this manifestation and understanding.
it is this vibration/understanding that is called 'love' in english for a lack of better word. it is not green ray love. it is not amore. it contains ALL the vibrations and understandings of this octave.
'radiation of self' in the highest form energetically, is radiation of that energy, as far as we know it. (for this octave anyway).
Quote:It's the reason STO Wanderers have incarnated. Not to learn high density lessons, but to be of service to others, helping them polarise, sharing light and love. That is the definition of a Wanderer...
it is not 'the'r eason sto wanderers have incarnated, as per the below quote.
Quote:Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.
The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.
There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.
The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.
The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.
there is more than one reason, but, the reason regarding the other selves, is lightening the planetary consciousness.
and as we see, there is indeed an aspect that involves progressing and evolving the entity in 3d sphere, compared to its own density.
i actually have talked about this in the earlier post. this has been a repetition. maybe you havent read that post.
Quote:One may miss the harvest if placing the accumulation of higher density wisdom before polarisation and service in third density.
again, wanderers do not get harvested.
[/quote]
your statements contradict by the way :
you said that the wanderers are not here to relearn 3d lessons.
yet, you talk about wanderers getting harvested.
if an entity does not need to learn 3d lessons, it doesnt need to get harvested at the end. if, it is a harvest of its own density, then it means that the entities do learn lessons regarding their own density, in 3d, because requirement for graduation from their own density would require they learn those lessons.
i would like to reiterate the final reason for incarnation for wanderers as per Ra :
Quote:first, i would like to clear a common misconception about wanderers, and harvests.
there is no mandatory 'harvest' for wanderers. wanderer already is a higher density entity as namaste points out. no harvest of 3d entity happens for them in a 3d world, except, it chances up with their own harvest :
a 6d entity which incarnates into a 3d world, leaves its 6d body out from mind/body/spirit complex, and incarantes into a 3d body.
the resulting is a mind/body/spirit complex with a 6d spirit - this is most important - 3d body, and veil in between its subconscious and conscious mind. its mind may be shaped and conditioned according to the societal mind of the plane it is incarnating in. but, its subconscious will still remain in its natural state, since it will be veiled from the conscious. remembering process for wanderers is penetrating the veil and reaching subconscious anyway, hence, the subconscious has to remain as it is, for the wanderer to be able to remember anything.
but most importantly, spirit is the spirit. it doesnt change. spiritual biases, preferences and colors are the hardest and longest to change, and it is the basis of the entire octave evolution. all the good things as well as all the bad things and hardships one endures in the way to evolve the spirit.
spirit doesnt become a clueless 3d spirit when incarnated into a 3d world. it still remains with the true color of its density in its own nature, even if it gets tinted with the dominant color/ray of the planetary sphere.
if it had not been otherwise, wanderer incarnation would be a one way trip to 3d, with no return. they would need to go all the way back, leave aside being able to remember what they are, while in 3d.
'remembering' is a concept that requires to have something to remember. how can a soul remember ? it can remember only if there are things that can remember.
example cases for this situation from Ra material are as follows :
how Carla's soul starts to take on the nature/vibrations of Ra's density, because she was being held there during sessions. it was mentioned somewhere, if im not mistaken, during a talk regarding some hardships.
how the 5d wanderers incarnating into Ra's sphere, after they got disincarnated, had seen that they went negative from positive, and had done some negative work in 4d, and then incarnated into Ra to redo some 4d work. they did not reincarnate into a 3d world, to redo choice, to go through a harvest again.
the simple case of death as explained by Ra :
when the entity dies (any entity lower than 6d apparently) leaves a body, it directly goes to the 'formmaker' time/space body of 6d. it stays there until aether is penetrated, and then revises incarnation (if applicable), and then returns to the body that is suitable for its mind/spirit complex.
notice. in NO case, spirit is out of the picture. it always there. whatever its true nature is, it is of that nature and density.
thus, if you take a 6d mind/body/spirit complex and it leaves its body and becomes a mind/spirit complex to be incarnated into another body, its STILL a 6d entity in nature. when it incarnates into another body, only the physical body part of the mind/body/spirit complex changes. and mind gets conditioned/limited.
it doesnt become a 3d entity. it is a 6d soul, in a 3d body.
(08-05-2010, 08:23 AM)Namaste Wrote: 1. Wanderers in 3rd density abide by 3rd density laws. Crucially, no matter the source density, a Wanderer's harvestability is dependant on their polarisation of service.
that is not correct.
the 4d harvest, for example, requires the ability to be able to accept and use light, ie 'understanding of the dance', wisdom, as Ra puts it. it doesnt matter how much you polarize, if you are not able to take responsibility of understanding and wisdom, you cant graduate.
we do not know the requirements of harvest for 5d end, and 6d end, therefore we cant directly comment. but, we know that there is no direct correlation of harvest in between polarization and harvest.
moreover, there is no relevance in between harvests of 1d, 2d too. one should not ignore or discount these densities, for these are also densities which express a major step in the manifestation of infinite intelligence, as infinite intelligence made it. the requirement for 2d graduation is being aware that self is an entity and there are other entities, the requirement for 1d graduation is the desire and need for progression by its own concentration, rather than being shaped by external forces.
that means, there are at least 3 densities which has no relevance to polarization in regard to harvest.
Quote:2. Wanderers from 4th, 5th and 6th densities have already graduated to said densities, and hence, already learned the lessons of 3rd, 4th and 5th. If they had not, they could not have graduated, and could not be defined as Wanderers. A simple, but prominent point in this discussion.
3. Hence, Wanderers have incarnated here to be of service to others in 3rd density, and not to learn lessons in densities they have already graduated from.
A single - specific - quote from Ra, confirms this. The bolded section is the crux of this discussion, and is clear.
[quote=Ra]Thusly the positively oriented Wanderer chooses to hazard the danger of the forgetting in order to be of service to others by radiating love of others. If the forgetting is penetrated the amount of catalyst in third-density will polarize the Wanderer with much greater efficiency than shall be expected in the higher and more harmonious densities.
STO Wanderers are here to help and service those in 3rd density, which means, abiding by the laws (specifically the veil), and radiating love and light through various individual means. Since third density is all about polarisation, the clear link here is that Wanderers are here to help others (and hence Gaia as a whole). They have graduated through 3rd, 4th and 5th density, learning lessons that we could quite possibly not even comprehend.
that is my approach. albeit, the 'we could quite possibly not even comprehend' part is misplaced.
Quote:...........
it is wrong to get inclined to equate blue, indigo and higher rays with magical properties. any kind of interaction in between entities carry these potentials.
a balance of self vs others, is an indigo matter. the 'we' understanding, the one that is not of the herd (orange) understanding, is an indigo matter. the feeling of unity, unison, is an indigo matter.
an invention is an indigo matter. science is an indigo matter. inspiration is an indigo matter.
a poem is a blue matter. it also has inspiration. a novel is a blue matter. a song, is a blue matter.
all of these require sufficient amount of their dominant rays to be present to be able to manifested. "artist's blockage", for example, isnt something that is magical. it involves blockage of various rays, very probably indigo and blue centers.
'we cannot possibly comprehend', therefore, is a totally off statement. leave aside comprehending, everyone is using the fruits of these in everyday life.
Quote:unity100 Wrote:blue ray and over activities are higher vibrations. introduction of these into the planetary sphere heals much more issues, fixes much more blockages, and lightens the planetary consciousness.
This comment is in opposition as to what Ra and Quo state regarding Wanderers beings beacons of light and love. The activated blue ray is a communicative expression of this love. The green ray - the ray this Earth and its inhabitants are being harvested for - is the source of this love and compassion. It's the path of evolution, third to fourth density, entities being compassionate enough to graduate. If there is no source of love from green-ray, no amount of blue-ray activity will make that entity harvestable.
this misconception results from the fact that there is not two separate words in english language for green ray, and the manifestation of consciousness that happens right after intelligent infinity starts activity.
they are both called 'love' in english. moreover, what french call amore is also called love in english.
this leads to misconceptions, and causes a lot of entities to increasingly confuse even intelligent infinity with green ray vibration, due to the wordage.
there are many different words for the immediate result of infinite intelligence's decision of experiencing itself with free will, which, as far as i understand, also coincides with the octave density of this particular octave. (this is the extent of what we know anyway). in turn, it is also the nature of intelligent infinity that is experienced by every entity differently, as Ra tells us.
some name it 'peace', some name it 'tranquility', some name it 'joy', some call it 'grace', some call it 'being', and some of these are taken as names for this manifestation and understanding.
it is this vibration/understanding that is called 'love' in english for a lack of better word. it is not green ray love. it is not amore. it contains ALL the vibrations and understandings of this octave.
'radiation of self' in the highest form energetically, is radiation of that energy, as far as we know it. (for this octave anyway).
Quote:It's the reason STO Wanderers have incarnated. Not to learn high density lessons, but to be of service to others, helping them polarise, sharing light and love. That is the definition of a Wanderer...
it is not 'the'r eason sto wanderers have incarnated, as per the below quote.
Quote:Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.
The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.
There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.
The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.
The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.
there is more than one reason, but, the reason regarding the other selves, is lightening the planetary consciousness.
and as we see, there is indeed an aspect that involves progressing and evolving the entity in 3d sphere, compared to its own density.
i actually have talked about this in the earlier post. this has been a repetition. maybe you havent read that post.
Quote:One may miss the harvest if placing the accumulation of higher density wisdom before polarisation and service in third density.
again, wanderers do not get harvested.
.................
namaste, your statements conflict by the way. you say that wanderers are not here to relearn 3d lessons, but you say that they will be harvested at the end of 3d. someone not needing learning 3d lessons, has no relevance to a 3d harvest.
i would like to reiterate final reason for wanderer incarnation as per Ra :
Quote:The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.
that means, 6d entities DO learn wisdom and compassion balance lessons in 3d. it cant be clearer than that.
which, is the business here.
overemphasizing green ray over all others, REGARDLESS of the reason, is an imbalance of compassion against wisdom. same applies to the opposite side.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - Ali Quadir - 08-05-2010
(08-05-2010, 03:12 AM)unity100 Wrote: the first task of a wanderer, in regard to OTHER entities, is the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions. higher frequency vibrations, less distorted consciousness.
This is a generalization that isn't true. I am wanderer but my primary task is not this. I came here to have experiences that would help my people. Earths evolution is only relevant in that it is one of the places at this time where these experiences can be found. Even 2012 isn't relevant. My mission is already completed. The rest is personal growth.. Bonus achievements in wow terminology.
I had nothing to learn, nothing to teach and nothing to do. I only had to be here. And it took me ages to figure that out.
It is difficult to accept this when we do not see that people do live on crossroads.
There are over 6 billion realities combined on Earth alone. What's true for one person is REALLY not always true for another person. This goes deeper than misunderstandings this is because we truly are living in different realities. There is an essence to understanding here related to Heisenbergs uncertainty principle that cannot be communicated people grok it or they don't.
To assume that the same is true for all persons is like assuming that everyone in the airport wants to go to your destination and came to the airport from your point of origin. This is simply not true. Anyone who assumes this hasn't grokked the enormousness of total reality it's really bigger than yours..
And that's where love comes in. Without love and this insight, wisdom is just another euphemism for dogma. Of the exact same type we've seen in religions and other politics for Millenia. Where a self or church appointed priest will evaluate his fellow beings by THEIR adherence to HIS standards. We should have outgrown this. Some have, some haven't...
You are wrong... We hear this so often. The more correct phrase would be: "You do not fit in my world view"...
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - AnthroHeart - 08-05-2010
Good perspective Ali. I have at times thought I was here to raise the vibration of the planet. If so though I would have been born a Crystal child, as they have the right vibration for that. Not saying that all crystals purpose is to raise vibration as you mention, but they'd have better ability to do so.
One of the big things for me was to come here to experience structure. In the other world I remember through an interim-life regression, I had some frustration not being able to grasp anything.
I also do get thoughts about some of the stuff I'm learning being of inspiration to others in a certain area of life. Whether it's through writing a book, or even providing some insight, it is experience to me and others.
Though I get the feeling of being more a wanderer from 5D rather than 6D. But in the largest picture, we're all part of source anyway. So I'm part of 6D as well.
RE: Wisdom in evaluating sources outside of L/L Research - unity100 - 08-05-2010
(08-05-2010, 09:31 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote:(08-05-2010, 03:12 AM)unity100 Wrote: the first task of a wanderer, in regard to OTHER entities, is the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions. higher frequency vibrations, less distorted consciousness.
This is a generalization that isn't true. I am wanderer but my primary task is not this. I came here to have experiences that would help my people. Earths evolution is only relevant in that it is one of the places at this time where these experiences can be found. Even 2012 isn't relevant. My mission is already completed. The rest is personal growth.. Bonus achievements in wow terminology.
that was what Ra said in regard to reasons for wanderers as the first reason. i dont particularly agree with it.
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Ali Quadir - 08-05-2010
There are bound to be differences for everyone who came here... Could you explain about "not being able to grasp structure"? What does that mean?
To me my biggest hangup was individuality. Not being part of a social memory complex that makes itself undeniably known to it's members was incredibly... Alien and lonely to me.. As a toddler I totally could not understand the difference between peoples expressed emotions and choices and their inner emotions and choices. It took me forever to realize I had choices to make and not to leave those choices to the group or whatever was it's substitute.
I cannot answer the question about density of origin.. Somewhere between 2nd and 6th... Including those two.. And depending on what characteristics you consider important.
(08-05-2010, 10:04 AM)unity100 Wrote:(08-05-2010, 09:31 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: This is a generalization that isn't true. I am wanderer but my primary task is not this. I came here to have experiences that would help my people. Earths evolution is only relevant in that it is one of the places at this time where these experiences can be found. Even 2012 isn't relevant. My mission is already completed. The rest is personal growth.. Bonus achievements in wow terminology.
that was what Ra said in regard to reasons for wanderers as the first reason. i dont particularly agree with it.
That is honestly a relief to me. Did he really mean what we think he meant? He did often remind us that he was speaking through what was essentially a narrow bandwidth. Also that he often had to generalize. And that it had proven quite common in the past for people to misunderstand his true intentions.
Perhaps the "primary reason" means the reason that occurs most often and not the reason that is most important to all wanderers.
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Shemaya - 08-05-2010
I want to offer a Q'uo channeling that may help to bring some clarity to this discussion. It's interesting to me because I experienced the a similar (ongoing) disagreement on another forum that I moderated. I seemed to be at odds with the spiritual teacher. In the end, I couldn't remain there as a community member because the imbalance was a continual catalyst, that being the arrogance of the teacher. Letting the intellect rule the heart just did not resonate for me at all.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0414.aspx
Some Q'uotes that spoke to me:
Quote:We would gladly speak a word to those whose profile matches the service-to-self energy pattern of well developed red, orange and yellow-ray energy centers, and well developed blue and indigo energy centers, but poorly developed green ray.
We would suggest that such entities experiencing this pattern of energy expenditure may profitably consider that they may well have chosen to incarnate in third density upon the Earth at this time in order to effect a more harmonious and full balancing of the energies which you may call love, light, power and peace. We offer these words to indicate the dimensions of love and wisdom, or the lessons of fourth density and fifth density, that are studied in sixth density in order to unify and solidify the point of awareness that contains all of the consciousness that is granted to all aspects of the creative principle.
Those who have experienced a far more comprehensive course of study in wisdom than in compassion move into third density not only to be of service to the planet and to its people but also to tackle a kind of strenuous metaphysical boot camp, if you will, in which your preincarnative desire is that you shall effect, within the athanor of incarnation, a more equitable and just integration of the energies of love and the energies of light or wisdom.
Quote:The chief stumbling block to one overbalanced in wisdom is a basic attitude with which this instrument is familiar that she calls pride.
However, we would perhaps use the term arrogance rather than pride. In pride, there is a conscious element: one is proud of something. There is a quantitative aspect to this concept of emotive structure. We do not wish to indicate that there is any conscious aspect to the structure involved in those who are wise at the expense of love. Therefore, we suggest the term arrogance, for arrogance is an unconscious attribute carried by those who are aware of the efficacy of their thinking processes.
We would say to those whose profile matches this distortion that it is time to become willing to be grounded in humility.
Quote:Having washed the disciples’ feet, he said to them, “If I am your teacher and I wash your feet, then perhaps you may see your way clear to washing each others’ feet.”
The one known as Jesus seldom spoke directly. However, you may see his intention was to indicate not only the value of service to others but also the value of absolute humility.
Jesus has been mentioned in this thread and it was implied that his death was an unwise choice. I would say that it was a demonstration of extreme humility. I would also suggest that the Lord was very aware of the possibilities and probabilities of the future harvest of this planet, and how the truth that he taught would be corrupted, and he knew that his choice would have the best outcome for the planet's harvest. That is a 3-d graduating to 4-d harvest. He choose to humbly die on the cross because of his love and compassion.
Quote:We ask all of those who find themselves wise and who know themselves clever, has it helped you to love? Has it opened your heart? We have often spoke through this instrument of the most difficult journey an entity such as those you have described will ever make. That journey is the fourteen or so inches from your head to your heart.
Quote:For those who carry that arrogance of wisdom, there is subtle work to be done in emptying the pockets of self. It is lonely and unforgiving work to break yourself open to the point where you can see and acknowledge all of the factors that go into what on the surface is a simple and seamless attitude of confidence and self-knowledge. Nevertheless, this is the task ahead of one who wishes to open his heart.
It is a difficult thing to grasp because there is no cleverness involved in opening the heart. There is only the acknowledgment of the falsehood of any claim that one may wish to make to true wisdom. For wisdom uninformed by love is not stable or balanced, in terms of that lesson which entities such as yourself incarnated in order to balance.
For me the Q'uo channelings, have been resonant and validating. In sofar as my love for Jesus, and my Christianity, in healing from the huge catalysts that I experienced when in community with the aforementioned spiritual teacher.
This thread does appear to be offering catalyst, which is a good thing, because that is how we are doing our work to lighten the planetary vibration.
In peace and light!
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - AnthroHeart - 08-05-2010
In the interim, nothing was solid, so I couldn't touch and feel and grab anything. It was just floating. Though I could walk on ground in certain places, there was the feeling of not having an anchor to hold onto. I didn't like it much so came to Earth so I'd have something solid to touch.
(08-05-2010, 10:12 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: There are bound to be differences for everyone who came here... Could you explain about "not being able to grasp structure"? What does that mean?
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Namaste - 08-05-2010
Unity, I think there are some copy/paste issues in your reply, it's rather confusing to read through :¬)
unity100 Wrote:you said that the wanderers are not here to relearn 3d lessons
Not my words, brother. My personal perspective is that Wanderers in 3rd density abide by 3rd density laws (including the harvest) and are not here to consciously learn 4th, 5th and 6th density lessons (there may be an unconscious lesson that our minds are veiled from, which is supported by the quote you mentioned).
To repeat the quote in which is one of the foundations of my viewpoint:
Ra Wrote:Thusly the positively oriented Wanderer chooses to hazard the danger of the forgetting
in order to be of service to others by radiating love of others
If Wanderers were not part of the harvest, it would not be hazardous. Another quote from Ra which links Wanderers with the harvest process...
Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity. This shall be the last full question of this session.
Two things. Firstly (in terms of the positive path), one only repeats a master cycle if their polarisation is less than 51% STO. This statement clearly tells us that Wanderers are part of the harvest. That is the risk taken.
Secondly, Ra specifically says, "when harvested" in the context of a Wanderer :¬)
Ra doesn't use language loosely, one can consider that a direct link.
Edit: Shemaya, thanks for sharing. The Q'uotes are a treasure trove for inspiration, I am still working through them, digesting them one by one :¬)
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - unity100 - 08-05-2010
(08-05-2010, 10:12 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Perhaps the "primary reason" means the reason that occurs most often and not the reason that is most important to all wanderers.
it may be possible that by just being here, the higher density entities are lightening planetary consciousness.
since, the most important factor in this is time/space, and spirit is the part that exists in time space and influences everything else.
wanderers' spirits will still remain with their true nature, in most of the cases.
moreover, if we remember that it was said to be possible for an entity to be bright and pure in a chakra, but it may never manifest noticeably in physical, space/time, it would add an added meaning to that.
so, there is a possibility that, regardless of wanderers manifest their energy centers in space/time or not, they would still lighten the planetary consciousness.
sometimes i think, maybe it should be that way. maybe, it is rather infringing, barging in to try to meditate and manifest the energy centers more and more.
imagine, you are an entity in 3d, having blockages and issues with various centers. and therein comes an entity walks by you, a number of chakras you have issues with open. you get overloaded in those chakras due to the emanation from the other's. the flowing energy may or may not open your chakras, and even in the case it opens, it maybe an imposing upon your own nature, spirit.
it would be much more eloquent that the interaction would stay at soul level, and the other's spirit would affect yours, and the change happened in that way.
for, spirit is the strongest and most profound part of mind/body/spirit complex.
(08-05-2010, 10:44 AM)Namaste Wrote:Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity. This shall be the last full question of this session.
Two things. Firstly (in terms of the positive path), one only repeats a master cycle if their polarisation is less than 51% STO. This statement clearly tells us that Wanderers are part of the harvest. That is the risk taken.
Secondly, Ra specifically says, "when harvested" in the context of a Wanderer :¬)
Ra doesn't use language loosely, one can consider that a direct link.
Edit: Shemaya, thanks for sharing. The Q'uotes are a treasure trove for inspiration, I am still working through them, digesting them one by one :¬)
conflicts with the situation of 5d wanderers in Ra's 3d experience.
not only those entities did not repeat a master cycle there or elsewhere, but they continued from 4d and on. in addition, they went total negative with other selves.
Quote:[u]caught into the planetary vibration and, [b]
that is the key there as you underlined it. if an entity gets caught in the planetary vibration, as an entity, spiritually, it is possible that it may revert to being an 3d entity in whole. it appears that, getting caught and synced with the planetary vibrations, is the main point.
yet, the situation of 5d positive wanderers to Ra going to 4d negative after they died, still stands out.
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - Namaste - 08-05-2010
'Planetary vibration' was used in the context of Earth, and at the time of the channeling, Earth was overly negative and not within the boundaries of positive harvest. Hence, one could describe being caught up in the material, or negative world, caught up in planetary vibration.
This is precisely the danger that each Wanderer faces that both Ra and Q'uo describe. Otherwise, there would be no danger, no risk.
Ra Wrote:I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity. This shall be the last full question of this session.
Personally, that could not be any clearer a statement. We are all free of course to take from it whatever we choose.
L&L
To add, this is the definition of a Wanderer, written by Carla/LL in 'A Wanderers Handbook'
Carla Wrote:Wanderers can be called to service by any density, but when they answer a call from third density they must also go through the veil of forgetting so that their service must be rediscovered during the incarnation in order not to infringe upon the free will of the third-density Earth population. Once this occurs, wanderers are Earth natives and must fulfill all the requirements of third-density harvest in order to graduate from this density.
RE: 6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons? - unity100 - 08-05-2010
(08-05-2010, 11:39 AM)Namaste Wrote: 'Planetary vibration' was used in the context of Earth, and at the time of the channeling, Earth was overly negative and not within the boundaries of positive harvest. Hence, one could describe being caught up in the material, or negative world, caught up in planetary vibration.
This is precisely the danger that each Wanderer faces that both Ra and Q'uo describe. Otherwise, there would be no danger, no risk.
it was clearly stated that it was related to karma.