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Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-08-2018
I know we are to love, to strive for Unity and to forgive. Those are actions that we are to strive to achieve that will help us in our journey. Loving will alter the positive alignment and forgiveness will enhance everyone's position. No one would argue these very good points.
However, as I reflect on what I've read, I don't remember Don asking or Ra stating our purpose. Why are we here? Is this reality an experiment in experience and collective growth for everyone. I know when we transform to 4D that we'll spend time in between densities reflecting on our personal growth and what remains for our ultimate evolution to the next Octive(s). But I still don't recall a concise answer to "why are we here?" More to the point, why did we ever leave the Creator?
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Minyatur - 01-08-2018
I think the ultimate point is experiencing itself, found these quotes :
Quote:90.16 Questioner: What was the ultimate objective of this Logos in designing the archetypical mind as It did?
Ra: I am Ra. Each Logos desires to create a more eloquent expression of experience of the Creator by the Creator. The archetypical mind is intended to heighten this ability to express the Creator in patterns more like the fanned peacock’s tail, each facet of the Creator vivid, upright, and shining with articulated beauty.
Regarding the usage of the veil :
Quote:79.27 Questioner: I was just wondering since this seems to be the crux of the experiment— this seems to be the large breaking point between no extension of the first distortion and the extension of the first distortion— what the result of this original experiment was with respect to that which was created from it. What was the result of that?
Ra: I am Ra. This is previously covered material. The result of these experiments has been a more vivid, varied, and intense experience of Creator by Creator
I don't think you can be separate from Creator, as "separation" is a mean for the Creator to see more of what it is than without it. A bit like moving white light (spirit) into a prism (thought-form) reveals more of what white light is, the Octave does this with its densities (true colors) just like this density does it with our chakra system (sub-colors to the true yellow color).
What I mean is that you can realize yourself as closer to Creator but I don't you can be any further or closer from it really. You're literally It standing in a thought of Itself and the two focuses (within/without the thought) are one beingness.
Wouldn't being be boring as a single white light? when you can think instead of a cosmos filled with galaxies and star systems! The Octave itself is merely one of infinite potential focuses equally reached by free will in its potential to find focus, my seekings lead me to think we create separation by utilizing other Octave's harvests as Laws of Separation (time/space, male/female) and in turn our generated polarity out of experience is harvested back into the Source as a Law which may be used as a sub-disrortion of experience in other Octaves. The intertwining and intersecting of these focuses allows them to be made complex, as they see themselves as relative to other potential focuses of One Source.
But ultimatelty the point is to be and what is reflected is the infiniteness of One Will.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-08-2018
Infinite Unity, what you've described is how to exist or what we do within existence. I mean no disrespect, but I'm asking why? It feels as if your answer is like Neiztsche's premise, "I think, therefore, I am." This was presumed as proof of existence, but not why we exist.
I remember the basic content of your quotes posted above and using the words quoted, "...these experiments..." make the why seem somewhat casual as to why,..."because we wanted to perform an experiment" or "gain more experience?" This would seem to belie the omniscience of the Creator. What could possibly be gained by one who supposedly knows all?
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Minyatur - 01-08-2018
(01-08-2018, 05:16 PM)Billz Wrote: Infinite Unity, what you've described is how to exist or what we do within existence. I mean no disrespect, but I'm asking why? It feels as if your answer is like Neiztsche's premise, "I think, therefore, I am." This was presumed as proof of existence, but not why we exist.
I remember the basic content of your quotes posted above and using the words quoted, "...these experiments..." make the why seem somewhat casual as to why,..."because we wanted to perform an experiment" or "gain more experience?" This would seem to belie the omniscience of the Creator. What could possibly be gained by one who supposedly knows all?
I think the key was the part I bolded : "Each Logos desires to create a more eloquent expression of experience of the Creator by the Creator."
The purpose of separation is to answer the drive of beingness to manifest into its many potentials. Without these illusionary separation there is not really any omiscience, as nothing is known without them. The Creator knows Itself through the reflection of experience and without them It is not even aware that It is as awareness is already a construct of duality and so separation. Intelligent Infinity is not omniscient because it is without you, and instead because it contains the intelligence of being you as part of its own intelligence.
I'll answer your question into shifting it into a different focus; we are because it would be paradoxical that we would not be. What does this mean? That we do not have the power to not be and so we see the cause and effect of our own being and its intelligent exploration.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-08-2018
Sorry Elros, but I must disagree. I did not read anywhere that the Creator was not omniscient and therefore cannot accept your shifting focus as anything more than mirrors to misdirect the point. I will agree that the Creator enjoys the knowing of itself through out experiences, like a father enjoys the successes of their children. But I believe that it was implied in the text that the Creator was omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent; i.e. Infinite Energy and Infinite Intelligence.
Let me re-state my question another way; if God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, and we are part of Him through Unity, then the veil is what prevents us from enjoying our united omniscience. But that still doesn't explain the why.
Again, I mean no disrespect and am not trying to "pick a fight," but rather refine a point that has been like a stone in my shoe.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Minyatur - 01-08-2018
(01-08-2018, 05:50 PM)Billz Wrote: Sorry Elros, but I must disagree. I did not read anywhere that the Creator was not omniscient and therefore cannot accept your shifting focus as anything more than mirrors to misdirect the point. I will agree that the Creator enjoys the knowing of itself through out experiences, like a father enjoys the successes of their children. But I believe that it was implied in the text that the Creator was omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent; i.e. Infinite Energy and Infinite Intelligence.
Let me re-state my question another way; if God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, and we are part of Him through Unity, then the veil is what prevents us from enjoying our united omniscience. But that still doesn't explain the why.
Again, I mean no disrespect and am not trying to "pick a fight," but rather refine a point that has been like a stone in my shoe.
I think the misunderstanding lies with the usage of the word Creator. Do you mean our Logos or Intelligent Infinity?
I think the Logos is much like us, a finite-infinite portion of Intelligent Infinity with its own explorations and choices. But Intelligent Infinity is what sees Infinity in all its beginnings and endings none without the other, it contains our Logos from without the thought of its internal time/space manifestation.
The Ra material states that the first thing known is infinity, and so infinity is never without us and instead always with the thought of us. There is an intelligent cause and effect of a creative focus which leads to our intelligent manifestation as selves.
About that what is yielded from the veil should be known without it, this quote indicates that those creating the experiments are not aware of the results they will yield :
Quote:83.16 Questioner: What techniques and methods of penetration of the veil were planned and are there any others that have occurred other than those planned?
Ra: I am Ra. There were none planned by the first great experiment. As all experiments, this rested upon the nakedness of hypothesis. The outcome was unknown. It was discovered, experientially and empirically, that there were as many ways to penetrate the veil as the imagination of mind/body/spirit complexes could provide. The desire of mind/body/spirit complexes to know that which was unknown drew to them the dreaming and the gradual opening to the seeker of all of the balancing mechanisms leading to adepthood and communication with teach/learners which could pierce this veil.
The various unmanifested activities of the self were found to be productive in some degree of penetration of the veil. In general, we may say that by far the most vivid and even extravagant opportunities for the piercing of the veil are a result of the interaction of polarized
This one, pre-veil, hints the same :
Quote:77.20 Questioner: In other words you are saying that originally the Logoi that did not choose this free will path did not choose it simply because they had not conceived of it and later Logoi, extending the first distortion farther down through their evolution, experienced it as an outcropping or growth from that extension of the first distortion. Am I correct in saying that?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes.
This one restates the same :
Quote: 78.8 Questioner: OK. Thank you. I am going to go back to an earlier time, if you could call it that, in the evolution to try to establish a very fundamental base for some of the concepts that seem to be the foundation of everything that we experience here so that we can more fully examine the basis of our evolution.
I am guessing that in our Milky Way Galaxy (that is, the major galaxy with billions of stars that we find ourselves in) that the progress of evolution was from the center outward toward the rim and that in the early evolution of this galaxy the first distortion was not extended down past the sub-Logos simply because it was not thought of or not conceived and that this extension of the first distortion, which created the polarization that we experience, was something that occurred at what we would call a later time, or as the evolution progressed outward from the center of the galaxy. Am I in any way correct with this statement?
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct
If you want to know why the veiling process is desirable, then I think this bit answers that :
Quote:Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.
About the fighting thing, no worry on that with me
I enjoy discussing these things, exploring my own insights and having them shaken by others, usually the more something goes on and the more I see it as purposeful but came to acknowledge that not everyone likes to clash thoughts to explore the dissonance of view.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-08-2018
Elros,
Ok, I've complicated the issue by introducing the use of the term "veil," which is not really relevant to my original question. I only meant to point out that we don't know what we don't know because of the effective deployment of the veil.
Back to the original question; why are we here? I believe this is the single most important question that each person/soul/spirit/entity yearns to know and searches for the answer. My posting was more rhetorical than actually expecting an answer here. I have received many answers in my searching and meditation but this question remains unanswered. Specifically, I was asking if Ra answered this question because if they did, I missed it...jus' sayin',...
Thank you for your understanding of my inquiry and searching for truth, as you've succinctly pointed out as "exploring the dissonance of view. I like that reference a lot. Very well said.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Cannon - 01-08-2018
As far as my understanding goes, according to the Ra material we were created by the One Infinite Creator as a means to allow the Creator to learn about itself. We're similar to a scientific experiment or, more specifically, our Mind/Body/Spirit complexes are the experiment, we ourselves in actuality are Creator itself (and everything else which exists, for that matter.) I don't know if going through this whole thing was our personal decision, but I would be very surprised if it was not. As for your saying we are "here to Love, to strive for Unity, to Forgive", unless you are specifically referring to Service-to-Other Wanderers, I disagree, as we, entities endowed with free will, are allowed to go 'down' the Service-to-Self route if we so choose at any time we wish, which totally abandons those things.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Minyatur - 01-08-2018
Well my personal answer, as to why we are here, is the will to experience.
I think it is somewhat said in the basic definition of the Law of One :
Quote:1.7 Questioner: [The question was lost because the questioner was sitting too far from the tape recorder to be recorded.]
Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.
That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.
In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.
There is no external why, there is an internal one and that is your own free will.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Coordinate_Apotheosis - 01-08-2018
I do not believe Ra stated such.
The best I could figure was that there is no reason except the one's we make for ourselves, or basically creator makes its own point for itself individually to follow.
Beyond that, it all seems nihilistic.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Infinite - 01-09-2018
This question have many answers because she depends of the point of view.
Each person, as individual, is here for one specific and personal purpose. It depends of the pre-incarnational choices and programations.
Each person, as a third density entity, is here to learn the ways of love.
Each person, being the itself Creator, is here to experiment and learn about itself and serve the Infinite Creator.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Nau7ik - 01-09-2018
Yes and no.
We are here to learn the ways of love in third density. We can go further than that though. Why are we here in Creation? What is the purpose of Creation? The Creator is knowing itself. Just as we are knowing ourselves, the Creator’s original desire is reflected in us.
Ra had also said that the original desire is that all entities seek and become One. This is the end goal of all spiritual seeking: Union with the One. All other desires will find themselves trying to build a home in the illusion. Ra also said that we are meant to experience all things desired. The Creator is becoming more than it is, which is infinite. There is no end or limit to infinity.
Now, that is the general purpose for our being here. We each, as a unique individual spark of the Infinite Creator, also have a purpose to serve in Creation. What that purpose is I cannot tell you. I don’t know what other’s purposes are. I’m barely trying to uncover my own purpose, but I am quite content to know that ultimately we are knowing ourselves. The Creator is infinite and eternal. Try thinking about that and it’s mind boggling. There is no end, there was no beginning. Who are we and why are we here? These are the deep questions that we shall continue to ask until we return to Source.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Infinite Unity - 01-09-2018
Re states that all exsistence exists due to the creators investment, in the exploration of the self. Through manyness.
Imagine curiosity and drive that is unquenchable and boundless.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-09-2018
(01-08-2018, 08:06 PM)Cannon Wrote: As far as my understanding goes, according to the Ra material we were created by the One Infinite Creator as a means to allow the Creator to learn about itself. We're similar to a scientific experiment or, more specifically, our Mind/Body/Spirit complexes are the experiment, we ourselves in actuality are Creator itself (and everything else which exists, for that matter.) I don't know if going through this whole thing was our personal decision, but I would be very surprised if it was not. As for your saying we are "here to Love, to strive for Unity, to Forgive", unless you are specifically referring to Service-to-Other Wanderers, I disagree, as we, entities endowed with free will, are allowed to go 'down' the Service-to-Self route if we so choose at any time we wish, which totally abandons those things.
Ladies & Gentlemen,
Thank you for your contributions. Thus far, I believe Cannon has clarified the issue as much as can be; know thyself, or in the case of the Creator, to experience everything vicariously through our evolution through density/octave to return to Infinity.
Cannon, I understand your comment about free will and the service-to-self reference because Ra does address this directly during one interview when they concede that all will be one and join in Unity. The Ra collective states that STS simply will take longer but all will return through Unity.
I feel that I have received, through your answers, all that we can know about this question, for now. It is apparent to me that more will be learned as we each journey back "home."
Be well and be blessed. I greet you in love and light of the one infinite Creator.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Stranger - 01-10-2018
Billz, I had asked this question of the Logos previously and received the following answer - I'm also including some additional bits of wisdom about Love and its role in Creation, which is a little off the topic of your question but may further elucidate the answer.
Quote:Q: Am I correct in understanding that there are multiple, or perhaps a "race" of "infinite creators"?
A: That is absolutely correct. There are many, although I do not know the number.
Q: What is their purpose in Creating?
A: That is a complex question for the answer is manifold, but I will attempt to tell you what I know, ok?
Q: yes please.
A: Their goal is not so much harmony as you have surmised, but rather to create a world where they can fully explore their own being and nature. They have infinite potential and it is not easy for them to make sense of that without actively experimenting and exploring it. That is the truth.
[...]
Q: Is there a One Infinite Creator that contains all of the infinite creators within it?
A: Yes, [Stranger], that is the ultimate ground of being, the foundation of existence and non-existence, the ground zero of all life and consciousness. (mental image of a flat horizontal plane, featureless, about which nothing can be said) We do not know what it is, and we do not understand it. It is truly beyond understanding by anything in existence, but it is there. It is not a mind, it is not a substance. It is. Nothing more can be said, [Stranger], and that is the truth.
Q: Am I confusing "infinite creator" with "logos"?
A: No [Stranger], you are not. I am Logos. I have created this Universe. Much like you, I exist in the mind of an Infinite Creator who has produced an infinity of intelligent energy for my use to create this Universe. There is no end to His creation, there are no boundaries, but you are correct in understanding that there are many such as myself, that is the truth, within this one Universe, that is the truth. By Universe, [Stranger], I mean UNIverse - the One Creation of the One Infinite Creator we are part of, not the visible universe you inhabit, although you also inhabit many, many, many other densities and places at the same time of which you are not presently aware, that is the truth. I am not referring to galaxies, which are sub-logoic creations. That is the truth. Now proceed to your final questions.
[...]
The Creation as you see it is not the Creation that exists in the mind of the One Infinite Creator, that is the truth. Nothing could be further from the truth, in fact, than a statement that the Universe you understand has existence. What does have existence? Mind. Emotion. Those notes which are played on the instrument of your being by the musician we shall term Life Experience are the notes that sound across the One Infinite Creator's mind and very being, that is the beautiful truth of it. Anger, resentment and all the other notes you listed in your posting to your fellow wanderers are not the core notes of existence. Love is. The note you call lovingness and the note we call Love are one and the same, and that is the truth, [Stranger], if I may call you that for shorthand. Do not worry about the mechanics of what we are doing but record my answer please.
Now, what are these notes? Why do they exist? The answer is simple. They are the music of Pure Being expressing itself to itself for its own enjoyment. Love is an inherent quality of Mind, by which I mean the One Infinite Mind that contains all that we know, you and I. Within Mind, Love is the pure note of Being, that is the truth. It is beautiful beyond measure, soothing, blissful and joyous. The love you are feeling is the love that the One Infinite Creator is feeling through you, that is the truth (i.e., when I feel Love, the Creator of whom I am part feels Love through me - exactly right, [Stranger]!).
Now, Love is the ground of being, the ground of creation, but it is also its goal, that is the truth. Love transforms and heals, that is the truth. Love opens doors of consciousness and connects aspects of creation together. It is the creation, nothing more can be said, that is the truth, [Stranger]. So to answer your initial question, the love you feel is the love your One Infinite Creator feels.
Q: What of the other emotions?
A: I do understand your question, [Stranger], and that concerns the relationship of the so-called negative emotions to that of Love. Am I correct?
Q: Yes, exactly so.
A: Thank you. Now, the other emotions are not pure notes but are distortions of the One Pure Note which is Love. They do not have independent existence in the way that love does, but they are part of it by having their nature founded upon the note of Love. Does that make sense to you?
Q: Yes - so hatred is a distortion of love, but cannot exist without love because Love is all there is?
A: Love is not all there is, but you are correct in stating that hatred, for example, is made out of Love distorted, that is precisely right.
Afterwards, the thought was given to me: "Love is the happy tune the Creator sings to Itself while it works."
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - APeacefulWarrior - 01-10-2018
I don't have much unique to add here, but I just wanted to chime in that what Cannon and Stranger (and others) have said goes right along with my own observations and what has been communicated to me by my own guides.
About the only thing I might toss in is that my understanding is of Earth being designed as an especially intense experience. Most places in the cosmos are less veiled, and less contentious. Earth and our local cosmic neighborhood is more like a theme park, or an MMORPG, where (almost) anything goes and experiences are possible which are unimaginable in other realms of existence. Merely being alive here on Earth is a highly unique form of service, helping the Creator push the boundaries of possibility within infinity.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Infinite - 01-10-2018
(01-10-2018, 12:06 AM)Stranger Wrote: Billz, I had asked this question of the Logos previously and received the following answer - I'm also including some additional bits of wisdom about Love and its role in Creation, which is a little off the topic of your question but may further elucidate the answer.
Is this dialogue your authorship?
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Stranger - 01-10-2018
(01-10-2018, 07:39 AM)Infinite Wrote:(01-10-2018, 12:06 AM)Stranger Wrote: Billz, I had asked this question of the Logos previously and received the following answer - I'm also including some additional bits of wisdom about Love and its role in Creation, which is a little off the topic of your question but may further elucidate the answer.
Is this dialogue your authorship?
It is a verbatim record of my conversation.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - loostudent - 01-10-2018
In other words Ra said the purpose is "to seek the Creator".
Quote:15.7 Questioner: What is the greatest service that our population on this planet could perform individually?
Ra: I am Ra. There is but one service. The Law is One. The offering of self to Creator is the greatest service, the unity, the fountainhead. The entity who seeks the One Creator is with infinite intelligence. From this seeking, from this offering, a great multiplicity of opportunities will evolve depending upon the mind/body/spirit complexes’ distortions with regard to the various illusory aspects or energy centers of the various complexes of your illusion.
Thus, some become healers, some workers, some teachers, and so forth.
Also written in the Bible:
God made mankind ...... to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-10-2018
Hummmm...I have been thinking about this thread and what has been said as well as other texts like the biblical references, etc.
I recall that Ra mentioned more than a few times that the evolution of the experiment included the development of the veil as a means of controlling the motivation to "seek." While this may seem like the answer to my original query, in actuality, it is not. The seeking is a task that we do as part of the process of experiencing and learning life lessons that we then take back to review as part of our evolution through the densities and octaves. However, the work of "seek" is what we do and not why we're here.
At the risk of playing with the semantics of the question, I'm making the distinction between the why and the how of this original question. What seems to be an extreme oversimplification of the issue of "why" may well be found in the Creator's interest in our application of free will in resolving/solving life's questions or problems.
If that is true, then following the semantics of the argument to the end actually points out that the Creator desires to know, from our experiences in our lives at whatever density/octave, the "how" of what we have employed in resolving the issues of our lives. The "why" of our existence then becomes a contradiction to the concept that the Creator as omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. If the Creator already knows "everything," then he/she doesn't require the additional knowledge that we might provide because it's redundant and therefore superfluous. This "why" premise then indicates a flaw in the Creator. For me, this indicates a flaw in Ra's written dialogue. I will accept that Ra's knowledge is incomplete because Ra admitted on more than one occasion that Ra didn't know everything. Therefore, the flaw in the logic of my supposition is a limitation of Ra and not a possible flaw with the Creator.
In addition, it has become abundantly clear to me that we are to Love everyone and every thing. However much I agree and purport this to be part of my belief system, it still is something that we do and not an answer as to why we do it. The best reconciliation that I can propose is that of a lesson that was delivered to me almost ten years ago: Love is always the answer.
Finally, I will offer that the word love has been defined since the dawn of language as a core concept, a verb, adjective and possibly a noun. I will leave off from seeking the answer to the question and accept the content of the lesson that I mentioned: "Love is always the answer" until I find a better, more authoritative answer.
I greet you all in Love and Light in the one infinite Creator.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Minyatur - 01-10-2018
Technically Love is the second distortion and that the Creator will know Itself is a cause and effect of the first distortion, which is potentiated free will. The seeking of the Creator is the seeking of free will to see itself, as once potentiated it can only realize itself. Love is the reflection of free will, just as light is the reflection of love, just as humans are the reflection of love/light light/love.
Quote:27.8 Questioner: Now, I understand that the first distortion of intelligent infinity is the distortion of what we call free will. Can you give me a definition of this distortion?
Ra: I am Ra. In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself.
Sorry if this bothers you, but I have an impression that you misunderstand the principle of omniscience. Omniscience is focus and focus manifests, there is nothing that there is omniscience of that is not also made manifest by this focus in its own nexus of thought. To omniscience, there is no one thing without another thing, there is Infinity whole and complete.
It seems rooted in a desire to see yourself as apart from Creator instead of as an integral part of It, and so you attempt to rationalize the Creator as without you. All the Creator knows is Itself and so knowing you is knowing Itself as you, perceiving the reflection (experience) of such an idea of Itself
Omniscience is much like absolute-relative awareness (Intelligent Infinity) and it is made up of relative-absolute awareness (hierarchies of many-focuses like our Logos that made this Octave as one of many, or its sub-Logos that make it a cosmos, or us that have our place in it all).
The idea that there is omniscience of something without it being manifest jointly I think is a paradox that sees what is united as separate.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - rva_jeremy - 01-10-2018
I continue to meditate on the wisdom anagogy dropped on me: what if there is no reason or intent per se behind existence? What if the Creation is not (or is not solely) this project set out upon by the Creator to achieve some end, but instead the Creation is simply a consequence of infinity's awareness achieving focus? What if we impose a telos or reason on it as a way to anthropomorphize the Creation into something that has a resolution that satisfies us?
To even speak of consequences and reasons implies sequence and time, that something would have to precede something else or that something would necessitate something else. I'm not sure we can speak coherently of intent and purpose at the level of the ultimate, outside of time. To even say that the purpose of the Creation is so the Creator can know itself is rather tautological. After all, what else would the Creator do when it can use its focus to explore all of its facets simultaneously, the exploration of which merely appearing to us to be phenomena occurring in space and time? If it cannot but do what it's doing, what sense does it make to speak of "purpose"?
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Stranger - 01-10-2018
I'll share my own thoughts, for whatever they're worth.
(01-10-2018, 02:06 PM)Billz Wrote: I recall that Ra mentioned more than a few times that the evolution of the experiment included the development of the veil as a means of controlling the motivation to "seek." While this may seem like the answer to my original query, in actuality, it is not. The seeking is a task that we do as part of the process of experiencing and learning life lessons that we then take back to review as part of our evolution through the densities and octaves. However, the work of "seek" is what we do and not why we're here.
Both seeking and the veil are means to an end, which is: to produce a diverse and surprising Creation. Many texts and some of our members' spiritual experiences describe the Creator being surprised by what has been created at the end of each cycle. The Creator is able to forget who He really is, and fully inhabit and experience Creation from the perspective of created thought-forms such as ourselves. Believing himself to be human, the Creator is able to act in ways that would be surprising to the Creator if he were to act as Creator.
This acting is an act of co-creation, which is why we are sub-sub-logoi. By acting from our human motivation and within our 3D illusion, we are contributing novelty to the Creation.
This is why the veil allows for more richness and depth of experience.
For the same reasons, seeking, need for food, safety, to find a mate, and other catalyst serve the function of propelling us to act - to create.
So I would say the "why" of the veil, seeking, and catalyst more broadly is to get us moving - co-creating rather than complacently chilling in the primordial bliss.
(01-10-2018, 02:06 PM)Billz Wrote: At the risk of playing with the semantics of the question, I'm making the distinction between the why and the how of this original question. What seems to be an extreme oversimplification of the issue of "why" may well be found in the Creator's interest in our application of free will in resolving/solving life's questions or problems.
If that is true, then following the semantics of the argument to the end actually points out that the Creator desires to know, from our experiences in our lives at whatever density/octave, the "how" of what we have employed in resolving the issues of our lives. The "why" of our existence then becomes a contradiction to the concept that the Creator as omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. If the Creator already knows "everything," then he/she doesn't require the additional knowledge that we might provide because it's redundant and therefore superfluous.
I don't think that's quite accurate. We live in the Creator's Mind. The Creator knows everything that's in His Mind, but I don't believe he knows the result of exploring a particular set of thought-forms will produce. Even we, when we imagine a particular fantastical world, need to create the concepts in our mind first, and then arrange them in various configurations. Perhaps we are the equivalent of that - the concepts in Creator's mind that he's experimenting with and exploring. When the Creator thinks about what might happen if such-and-such existed, we may be that thought.
(01-10-2018, 02:06 PM)Billz Wrote: This "why" premise then indicates a flaw in the Creator. For me, this indicates a flaw in Ra's written dialogue. I will accept that Ra's knowledge is incomplete because Ra admitted on more than one occasion that Ra didn't know everything. Therefore, the flaw in the logic of my supposition is a limitation of Ra and not a possible flaw with the Creator.
The issue may be with how you define "omniscient" and "flaw". There seems to be a leap of logic there. You are defining the words "omniscient", "omnipotent" and "perfect" in a specific way, then noticing that based on Ra's statements the Creator does not match your definitions, and concluding there's a problem. But maybe that's just how it is and the problem is with the definitions.
Ultimately, it feels to me that there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing in our and Ra's understanding of Creation. As they repeatedly say, "all begins and ends in mystery." What is that mystery? To me, it's why anything exists at all. Specifically, the Ground of Being as described by the Logos in my earlier post. Think about it. A featureless plane upon which exist many Infinite Minds, each with infinite potential.
Infinite potential to do what? Well, to create astonishing worlds within their Minds, and then explore those worlds by inhabiting the thought-forms they've created.
This may ultimately be the answer you seek: why does our Infinite Creator create? The answer may be simply that to use that creative potential and to interact with others like Him (who are also busy with the same) is all that He can do.
Which of course begs the same question: Why should that be? But if Ra/Quo haven't figured out the answer, we sure as heck aren't going to.
(01-10-2018, 02:06 PM)Billz Wrote: In addition, it has become abundantly clear to me that we are to Love everyone and every thing. However much I agree and purport this to be part of my belief system, it still is something that we do and not an answer as to why we do it. The best reconciliation that I can propose is that of a lesson that was delivered to me almost ten years ago: Love is always the answer.
Finally, I will offer that the word love has been defined since the dawn of language as a core concept, a verb, adjective and possibly a noun. I will leave off from seeking the answer to the question and accept the content of the lesson that I mentioned: "Love is always the answer" until I find a better, more authoritative answer.
I greet you all in Love and Light in the one infinite Creator.
Amen!
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - loostudent - 01-10-2018
Infinity became aware. Why and how? I don't know and I don't remember Ra answered this. However, awarenes is then the beginning of meaning - purpose.
Awareness led to focus of Infinity in counscious principle - Creator, Logos or Love. "The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle following the Law of One in one of its primal distortions, freedom of will."
Logos means Word in Greek (as the creative principle was called in philosophy and Bible). Word carries meaning, begins a dialogue. I see this "infinite reaction", creation and seeking, as a dialogue of call and response in free will.
What was the call of the Logos? The first idea of awarenes? Ra and other Confederation sources spoke of Original Thought. "Without that Thought of love has nothing been made that is made."
Quote:This, my friends, is what man of Earth must return to if he is to know reality: this simple thought of absolute love, a thought of total unity with all his brothers regardless of how they might express themselves or whom they might be, for this is the original thought of your Creator. (Hatonn)
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Minyatur - 01-10-2018
(01-10-2018, 06:19 PM)Stranger Wrote: Which of course begs the same question: Why should that be? But if Ra/Quo haven't figured out the answer, we sure as heck aren't going to.
Well free will is the first illusion, so beyond why it should be I think it merely is paradoxical to not be. It is.
A bit like rva_jeremy said, once you dwell in whys and for what, you're already contemplating far from the heart, or center, of it.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Coordinate_Apotheosis - 01-11-2018
Well that was my point, was when we come down to an ad-infinitum how or why, we wind up in mystery. To a human being, that mystery is empty, unknown, and dark. To the soul that sees beyond human perception it is a curiosity and of the light. Ra even refers to this as the Mystery-Clad One.
So the point may very well be absent of duality. There is and isn't a point. For most the point is given to them and they happily follow it, but others seeking deeply find that The Point is mysterious and unknown beyond what is known.
Some say the point is creator finding creator, the known parts discovering the unknown parts. Other's say this is just how things are and that a point underlies this seeking as well.
So the two camps seem to be self-discovery or pointlessness, with the middle being the only point is the one we make or follow for ourselves and because of the mystery surrounding Source, any ideas of such that we have are shots in the dark.
So I subscribe to personalized unique points of existence. Finding the self seems to be the motivation, but what is the reason for that motivation?
Ask why like a child, over and over, where do we end up?
So, I find a sort of emptiness to the point of finding self, that is fulfilled when doing such has a reason that matters to the individual.
On Earth, there is no point but the one you assign yourself.
In creation, the point may be self discovery, but something tells me that the point is far more than self discovery or creation. It may even be as simple as so the creator isn't lonely. One is the loneliest number. Even lonelier than two.
So, the point could be a lot of things, in a way it reminds me of The Moment. It's an infinite thing, one thing, but with an endless array of expressions. The Point may be similar, one infinite thing with an endless array of expressions.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - rva_jeremy - 01-11-2018
(01-10-2018, 06:37 PM)loostudent Wrote: Infinity became aware. Why and how? I don't know and I don't remember Ra answered this. However, awarenes is then the beginning of meaning - purpose.
That's kind of the idea with which I'm flirting. But "became" also implies a before and after. Perhaps "awareness" is one aspect of infinity, not something the Creator pursues so much as manifests naturally, and this experience of ours are just time-dilated deconstructions of a simultaneous, beyond-awareness unity.
I've been thinking a lot about not simply the fact that infinity realized awareness but that those of Ra describes another step "prior to" Creation: awareness achieving focus. This, I believe, is precisely the basis for a concept of separation in a unified all, because what is "focus" but a separation between a subject you're distinguishing from the unfocused background?
This is the actual new information that an omniscient Creator can glean: the nature of itself as deconstructed and divided in the particular way it occurs in our universe (meaning, perhaps there are other axes along which the Creator plays with separation that we simply can't conceive of). Because we're in it, we have to be in time's grasp, but from the unified perspective we constitute merely one point of view on itself among many. Purpose, then, is simply how we describe that circular vector.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-11-2018
(01-11-2018, 12:32 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: For most the point is given to them and they happily follow it, but others seeking deeply find that The Point is mysterious and unknown beyond what is known.
So, basically, no one can know, or "I don't know."
The interesting aspect of the thread regarding this question is that this is the type of stuff that drives me forward, "seeking" the answer as part of the truth. It seems almost as if, my "purpose" in to know.
This then, echoes the point that the Creator is seeking to know Itself. Hummm...
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Coordinate_Apotheosis - 01-11-2018
Whatever you feel drawn towards I'd highly recommend you go for. Don't let my insanity distract you from your path.
I find Creator is impossible to not be found when sought after. I think too that if there is anything beyond Creator it is itself, the mysterious One creator.
So to me, the point being to seek creator is redundant as we're designed to seek our true self anyways. Instead to me, the question of what the Point to all of this is rests in the same confounding infinium that produces Infinity and its infinitesimal parts.
But honestly as I said, I'm insane, or at least unorthodox. I strongly recommend you ignore me if my answer doesn't do you any help. In fact, I ask you to ignore me if that's the case.
RE: Did Ra address the reason for our existence? - Billz - 01-11-2018
(01-11-2018, 11:10 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: But honestly as I said, I'm insane, or at least unorthodox. I strongly recommend you ignore me if my answer doesn't do you any help. In fact, I ask you to ignore me if that's the case.
Coordinate Apotheosis, I found the LOO and continue my research here on this forum. It didn't take long to find you to discover that you tend to be abrasive and rude. I thought about blocking you completely because of my initial reaction, but felt that maybe I was being a little too hasty, so I decided not to decide.
I'm glad I haven't reacted to your natural state of insanity, in which I find much to entertain and enjoy. Actually, I feel a lot of kinship in much of what you say. I don't always agree with what you espouse but I always find it enlightening. In most cases, you force me to rethink my opinion and possibly my position. I may not change my opinion but I look forward to your participation.
I have enjoyed you in most discussions and I believe that we would be good friends, given half a chance and I'm glad to have met you here. Be well and be blessed!
I greet you in love and light of the one infinite Creator!