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Does experience itself hold any value - kanonathena - 11-14-2012
My understanding is that creator let different parts of itself to interact with one another to explore itself on a more micro level, the purpose is to gain a more refined (dense?) understanding of itself, to know its essence.
Therefore experience is only a tool not the purpose. The value of experience is that all creator is doing is experiencing itself, no understanding can be archived without experience (I guess).
Question:
1. Does different kind of experience lead to different understanding or merely generate different ways to the same understanding?
Ra said they are worried when there is little harvest at the end of the second cycle. But Ra also acknowledged that even if earth is destroyed in unclear war, this still bring useful information back to creator.
2. Do we always have to learn something from experience, does experiencing just for the sake of experiencing without understanding is not good practice?
I take Ra's stand as to maximize opportunity for experience and to maximize understanding that can be gained from experience. Therefore indulge in experience without learning is not advisable, and the information from these experience are not really a fair trade for understanding lost.
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - Tenet Nosce - 11-14-2012
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: My understanding is that creator let different parts of itself to interact with one another to explore itself on a more micro level, the purpose is to gain a more refined (dense?) understanding of itself, to know its essence.
Therefore experience is only a tool not the purpose. The value of experience is that all creator is doing is experiencing itself, no understanding can be archived without experience (I guess).
Yes, I believe that is a fairly accurate summary.
Quote:1. Does different kind of experience lead to different understanding or merely generate different ways to the same understanding?
Ultimately, identity is the only thing to be understood. All paths lead to the Creator. But there's a ton of other interesting stuff along the way. E
Quote:Ra said they are worried when there is little harvest at the end of the second cycle. But Ra also acknowledged that even if earth is destroyed in unclear way, this still bring useful information back to creator.
Where did Ra express a concern over the size of a harvest?
Quote:2. Do we always have to learn something from experience, does experiencing just for the sake of experiencing without understanding is not good practice?
We don't "have to" do anything. Often times the understanding comes later. But I'm not sure where your question is coming from. I am left with the impression that you would consider learning as a chore or something that takes too much effort.
Learning from experience is easy. Simply look within.
Quote:Therefore indulge in experience without learning is not advisable, and the information from these experience are not really a fair trade for understanding lost.
They do possibly suggest (depending on one's read) that continually unused catalyst may manifest as illness, however ultimately "There is no lack of space/time in which this catalyst may work (46.16)"
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - Turtle - 11-15-2012
Ra has biases....One Infinite Creator does not.
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - Ankh - 11-15-2012
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: Question:
1. Does different kind of experience lead to different understanding or merely generate different ways to the same understanding?
I believe that there are infinite ways of coming to an understanding, but that the path is somewhat the same for all:
Ra Wrote:16:37 Questioner: Can you tell me if the progression of life in other galaxies is similar to the progression of life in our galaxy?
Ra: I am Ra. The progression is somewhat close to the same, asymptotically approaching congruency throughout infinity. The free choosing of what you call galactic systems causes variations of an extremely minor nature from one of your galaxies to another.
16:38 Questioner: Then the Law of One is truly universal in creating a progression towards the eighth density in all galaxies. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. There are infinite forms, infinite understandings, but the progression is one.
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: 2. Do we always have to learn something from experience, does experiencing just for the sake of experiencing without understanding is not good practice?
I take Ra's stand as to maximize opportunity for experience and to maximize understanding that can be gained from experience. Therefore indulge in experience without learning is not advisable, and the information from these experience are not really a fair trade for understanding lost.
Well, for instance in 16:39 Ra said: It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.
But that was in regards to understanding the Law of One. In regards to understanding an experience, Ra said:
Ra, 49:6 Wrote:Each experience will need to be observed, experienced, balanced, accepted, and seated within the individual. As the entity grows in self-acceptance and awareness of catalyst the location of the comfortable seating of these experiences will rise to the new true-color entity. The experience, whatever it may be, will be seated in red ray and considered as to its survival content and so forth.
Each experience will be sequentially understood by the growing and seeking mind/body/spirit complex in terms of survival, then in terms of personal identity, then in terms of social relations, then in terms of universal love, then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication, then in terms of how the experience may be linked to universal energies, and finally in terms of the sacramental nature of each experience.
And in 18:5 they said: The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them.
A little bit later in the same Q/A they said that all things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
At another point they also said this: The original desire is that entities seek and become one. If entities can do this in a moment, they may go forward in a moment, and, thus, were this to occur in a major cycle, indeed, the third-density planet would be vacated at the end of that cycle.
In an infinite creation I guess that this can happen, that entities become one in a moment, and I also believe that some few entities have done that. But for the rest of us, or majority, it is a longer road and seeking for that road which takes time that is the case. So to come back to your question whether we need to learn something from each experience or whether experiencing just for the sake of experiencing is enough, I would say - take what resonates with you personally. It seems to me that Ra says that yes, we do need to learn and understand, and it resonates with me personally cause I have always had this urge to understand and learn. But if this doesn't resonate with you, then you might have another path to walk, which is infinitely valuable to the One Infinite Creator, which is not something or someone outside you, but has always been and is you, since before time.
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - Eddie - 11-15-2012
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: Therefore experience is only a tool not the purpose. The value of experience is that all creator is doing is experiencing itself, no understanding can be archived without experience (I guess).
No, you have it backwards. It IS the experience, itself, that is the value; not understanding. Experience is what we bring back to the Creator from our 3rd-density sojourn. 3rd density is not the density of understanding, and we gain little of it here, regardless of our own opinions of our attainment of it. Read Robert Monroe's books (in chronological order) for a good understanding of this. It will take a great weight off your shoulders.
I was interested to witness this anecdote, as related by Kycahi at this year's Homecoming. Speaking of the early days of LLResearch, he told of Don Elkins -- who was notoriously laconic in personal interaction -- coming up to him and asking, "Lee, do you know why we're here?" Lee, of course, began to answer in some specific philosophic way; but Don interrupted him, saying, "No! It's to experience, and to make The Choice."
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - anagogy - 11-16-2012
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: My understanding is that creator let different parts of itself to interact with one another to explore itself on a more micro level, the purpose is to gain a more refined (dense?) understanding of itself, to know its essence.
Therefore experience is only a tool not the purpose. The value of experience is that all creator is doing is experiencing itself, no understanding can be archived without experience (I guess).
Its more about the journey, than the destination. The process of moving from ignorance to enlightenment. Our default state is infinite intelligence, where we know ourselves absolutely. There is nothing to be refined at this level. There is nothing that can be added or subtracted at this level. There are no doubts there about what or who you are at that level, if we were to relegate this infinity to the terminology of "level".
Ra has acknowledged that this grand illusion is simply an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought that binds all things. They have stated that this distortion is not even necessary. We do it for some cosmic sense of fun or curiosity. Think of it like the ultimate virtual reality game. You explore a unique and specific vantage point and get to see the universe from that perspective, and then, over the course of time, merge that perspective back with the One perspective, which encompasses all conceivable perspectives.
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: 1. Does different kind of experience lead to different understanding or merely generate different ways to the same understanding?
Ra said they are worried when there is little harvest at the end of the second cycle. But Ra also acknowledged that even if earth is destroyed in unclear way, this still bring useful information back to creator.
All roads lead to the same place, even though the roads may be different. Traveling down this road of light is a matter of broadening ones perspective or viewpoint. Becoming more conscious, in other-words. Though the local instance or manifestation of a lesson may be different in specifics, the underlying vibrations necessary for the elevation of consciousness remain the same. The "usefulness" of ANY experience is in its potential to move you further along this road to unity. Thus, you have the progression through the densities of experience, which equal a gradual broadening of perspective until all can be seen as truly One again.
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: 2. Do we always have to learn something from experience, does experiencing just for the sake of experiencing without understanding is not good practice?
I take Ra's stand as to maximize opportunity for experience and to maximize understanding that can be gained from experience. Therefore indulge in experience without learning is not advisable, and the information from these experience are not really a fair trade for understanding lost.
The so called "lessons" we are learning are not lessons as such, rather, what you have is a sort of "knowingness" that becomes further defined and refined with each experience that you have so, from a broader perspective, you cannot stop learning these lessons, unless you were to stop experiencing. Experiences change you, whether you want them to or not. These are the lessons. These are the "learnings".
It is true though that this "knowingness" can become accelerated or refined when the conscious will of the observer is brought to bear on the qualities of the experience. The "remembering" of that which we already know, the recalling of who we really are as source energy can become more efficient if that is where we turn our will. Growth doesn't have to be slow.
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - kanonathena - 11-17-2012
(11-14-2012, 10:39 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:Quote:Ra said they are worried when there is little harvest at the end of the second cycle. But Ra also acknowledged that even if earth is destroyed in unclear way, this still bring useful information back to creator.
Where did Ra express a concern over the size of a harvest?
The Law of One, Book I, Session 22
Questioner: As the cycle terminated 25,000 years ago, what was the reaction
of the Confederation to the lack of harvest?
Ra: I am Ra. We became concerned.
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - Horuseus - 11-17-2012
Quite simply, experience is simply a tool we use as 'catalysts' to aid us in remembering who we really are. This causes reintegration with source as a result. You cannot reintegrate fully with what you believe you are not a part of.
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - Tenet Nosce - 11-18-2012
(11-17-2012, 06:21 AM)kanonathena Wrote:(11-14-2012, 10:39 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:Quote:Ra said they are worried when there is little harvest at the end of the second cycle. But Ra also acknowledged that even if earth is destroyed in unclear way, this still bring useful information back to creator.
Where did Ra express a concern over the size of a harvest?
The Law of One, Book I, Session 22
Questioner: As the cycle terminated 25,000 years ago, what was the reaction
of the Confederation to the lack of harvest?
Ra: I am Ra. We became concerned.
Thanks!
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - Shin'Ar - 11-18-2012
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: Therefore experience is only a tool not the purpose.
Question:
1. Does different kind of experience lead to different understanding or merely generate different ways to the same understanding?
Experience is both an action and an understanding based upon one's comprehensive ability and how that is applied to discerning the results of the action.
Because of that requirement of individual capability, every action and discernment of it will be individual. In the environment around each of these actions of experiencing there are many factors which come into play.
For example, a child touches a hot burner and burns it's hand. In every action of this sort there will always be the experience of the burning of the burned hand. But what if one child is alone when it happens, and compare that experience to the one where the child is immediately cared for by the loving touch of its mother?
Experience is not a matter of repetition as you make it sound. It is a matter of interaction and environment factors.
Connection to other fields of process, which are countless.
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: 2. Do we always have to learn something from an experience? Is experience, just for the sake of experiencing, without understanding, beneficial in any way?
This is one of the main problems in the course of evolution of consciousness. Many fields of consciousness make choices which do not further their evolution at the rate which it could be done. That is not to say that there is some expected rate of procession. That is just acknowledging that if opportunities for understanding are unnecessarily missed, than the process of that particular aspect of evolution of The All decelerates. And it can even reach such a point of degradation that it actually does not evolve from its last state of being at all.
The Ancients referred to this as the 'cycle of darkness'.
There are many who would like to play in the sandbox of self gratification forever because they love the flesh and the experiencing of it, and cannot fathom the Mysteries which they may be missing out on, nor do they even care about the potential or the possibilities. All they care about is enjoying the experience of flesh.
(11-14-2012, 04:57 AM)kanonathena Wrote: I take Ra's stand to be one of maximizing opportunity for experience, and to maximize understanding that can be gained from experience. Therefore, to indulge in experience without learning is not advisable, and the information from such experience is not really a fair trade for the understanding which has been lost.
I think there are a great many cases where the understanding of what will be the result of one's particular path is gained, but because of their addiction to self gratification they deliberately choose to ignore their understanding and continue to pursue the same path.
Every junkie knows exactly what they are doing to themselves with each and every dose. It's not a matter of understanding, it's a matter of decision and addiction that cannot be conquered.
This does not mean that there are not many incidences of completely innocent ignorance and incapability to understand. And in those cases it is a matter of the repetition until such a time as such develop the understanding to either move on, or continue to repeat.
So the reason why it would not be advisable or a 'fair trade', is simply because there is a complete lack of evolution, stagnation, which because all are One, affects not only the state of being of the fragment, but The All as well.
They become an anchor dragging behind the one Ship of Procession. The more anchors there, the less the progress into Mystery and Potential.
This is the true dilemma of the state of being of the human as a species which we see manifest across the globe.
Do we sacrifice individual achievement for the sake of community, or do we espouse survival of the most fortunate?
Do we see our life as a species in harmony, or an individual fighting to provide for self despite the species?
I think most of us realize which should hold the highest priority. But far too many either ignore that truth, or deliberately mock it in their lack of harmonic compassion and conscious choice to live in darkness.
RE: Does experience itself hold any value - JustLikeYou - 11-20-2012
The Creator's purpose is to know itself. This knowledge takes the form of experience. Experience is then distilled and reused through the mechanism of Harvest. This distillation is what may be referred to as "understanding." Regardlessly, the process of experience and distillation is the requisite machinery which opens the door for the Creator's act of knowing itself. To attempt to separate this process from the Creator's knowing of itself is not possible, due to our location within the illusion. Everything you experience is the Creator revealing itself to you, the Creator. So right now, you are the Creator knowing itself through your experience, no matter what you do, try to do, don't do or try not to do.
Learning is the shape that the Creator's experience of itself takes. Ra says that the Living Light created by the Logos became organized from higher to lower according to the very nature of the Light and its Logos. Hence, experience is an experience of moving from higher to lower and then from lower to higher. Or, in Ra's terminology, focusing outward, outward and inward until the focuses are complete.