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Is it weird... (career related) - Clordio - 12-03-2009
Is it weird to want to drop college and all the dumb politics of getting a degree and just simply wanting a hands on job?
More and more I tire of going to university. I sometimes fantasize about going and working on a farm, working in an auto shop, or even construction.
Honest hard work. Nothing that needs to cheat somebody else to make a living. I want to produce raw material, tangible necessities. Food, steel, transportation. I want to help people and do it at a low level.
I feel it might be weird because I know that I am rather intelligent. Physics, maths, chemistry, they all come easy to me. But they bore me, severely. It's all cut and dry. I'd much rather have a meaningful job affecting those around me directly and study these subjects in my free time.
I don't know where I'm really going with this but everyday I feel my self gravitating towards this lifestyle. I sincerely dislike academics.
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Peregrinus - 12-04-2009
This is the type of question which only you may answer. This is your life, and as such, you must do as you must do. Others will weigh pros and cons according to their experience, but those experiences are not yours, thus are not helpful.
If anything, ask your higher self to give you guidance. I typically ask before I go to bed, and within days I have the answer. Some times it comes by the next morning, sometimes it takes longer. Remember to thank your higher self too!
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Questioner - 12-04-2009
Hi Clordio,
I encourage your exploration of the spiritual value of work in your life. I love to see people ask these kinds of questions. I hope I can be of some service in your investigations.
May I recommend a few books that might help inspire your contemplations? They are all focused on the concept that only you can decide the meaning of your own life, but there are techniques that can bring those choices into focus so that you can see the heart of them.
Zen and the art of making a living, by Lawrence Boldt
Pathfinder, by Nicholas Lore
What color is your parachute,
and, The three boxes of life, both by Richard Nelson Bolles
You like to be hands-on with something directly practical for basic human needs, like food, transportation, materials, and shelter.
By the way, for a very comprehensive list of industries, check out NAICS at http://www.census.gov/epcd/naics02/naicod02.htm. This is the list used to keep track of government economic statistics, so you'll find a very comprehensive definition of almost all types of businesses here. This might help you narrow down, for example, which types of transportation most appeal to you. (I'd guess, for instance, that you might find freight trains more satisfying to your interests than luxury charter jets.)
Has someone told you that the types of industries that resonate with you are somehow lower in some moral scale of ethical worth or respectability? Do you believe that? Would it make any difference to the judges that some of the richest people in the history of humanity made their wealth collecting flammable sludge from underground (Getty), from tools to help others collect this sludge (Hughes), from an invention intended to reduce the drudgery of the farm (Ford, who originally aspired to make tractors), and from putting metal pieces on the ground so stuff could roll on top of them (Carnegie, who funded half the nation's public libraries)? Would it make a difference to them to know that Bill Gates got his start in business with equipment for a city to count how many cars drove over a rubber hose on the road?
Has someone told you that using your hands, expressing the Creator's love for others through your body's activity, is lower in value than intellectual organization of ideas? Do you believe that?
Now, consider the value of science in those occupations. Would it help a steel worker to understand metallurgy? Would it help a transportation system worker to know calculus when they build a schedule or pack materials? Would it help a food worker to know biochemistry? If you were to make your highest contribution as you see it, would that technical education help you serve with greater depth of understanding, so your hands could do more to help the lives of others?
If this kind of education is relevant, could you get reasonable work without it and then afford to go back to school? Or are your chances of a good living better if you have more schooling before starting your career? If formal training would help you learn these things, should it be a practical apprenticeship? Two year degree, four year, master's? Should it be at a school with as much pragmatism and as little politics as possible? Does your current school meet those criteria?
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Ali Quadir - 12-04-2009
It's not weird, you're probably a bit fed up with learning... However, a bit extra now will go a long way in life. I've got a degree in a field totally unrelated to my day job... But without it I may not have gotten the day job... It's stupid, but the world ticks like that, so I would suggest if it's at all possible to get the degree and make it easier on yourself.
Perhaps theres a possibility to work and study at the same time? I did that a lot of the time. My studies were embarrassingly slow, but at least I payed my own bills.
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - fairyfarmgirl - 12-04-2009
Working with the hands... ever consider permaculture... this is a breakthrough trade/profession that requires intelligence and honest hard work. There are Permaculture universities in Hawaii, Oregon, Australia, and Scotland... Each has a unique approach. A google search will give you all sorts of leads to check out.
Also, being a carpenter is a noble pursuit... But it is important to understand unethical business practices exist within all sectors of traditional and sometimes non-traditional employment... It is not the job you are doing--- but rather, how you are doing the job. Integrity is a personal value.
I know for myself, I wish I had waited until I was in mid-20's to enter into University... the hard work and effort and sheer expense of the education of which I am still paying for nearly 18 years later... is just simply not worth it in retrospect. My education has never gotten me a J-O-B... A trade is something that will allow you to work anywhere in the world just about... but book learning... it does not necessarily mean employment.
I once read somewhere that mig welding was one skill that is dynamic--- with mig welding one can make anything from Art to Skyscrapers and all that in between...
The choices are yours to make! Enjoy the process---
--fairyfarmgirl
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Clordio - 12-04-2009
Wow, you've all been incredibly helpful and inspiring.
I do understand that there are undesireable facets to many jobs, but I seek a job where my duty can not be affected by these. I don't want to screw a person over because it's in my job description. I'd rather leave that to the suits and I will provide an honest product/service to my customer.
I like to tinker, and anything with moving parts is always fascinating. I've never given train maintanence thought before and that actually sounds exciting. Such a large machine with so much momentum, I can only imagine the brake assembly.
I have heard of permaculture an it is very interesting. I plan on signing up for helpexchange and wwoof and some of the listings I've seen mention this so there is an oppurtunity right there!
Last night when I posted I was going through what I've decided to call my hell loops. I get stuck on an idea or thought and instead of thinking of ways to better it I get stuck on ruminating over the negatives. These can take forever for me to get out of but a good night's sleep can be quite effective.
For now I've decided to go ahead and give this semester one more shot. I've switched majors (computer science, programming is very interesting to me) and if I can't find my niche I will move on to learning a trade. Welding, mechanics, it doesn't really matter. I'll know I've found my place when the time is right, for now I wait.
You are all so wonderful for being understanding and giving such great advice.
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Lorna - 12-04-2009
good luck clordio - remember that employment isn't the only option available, more and more people are becoming self employed, creating their own careers for themselves or undertaking a mixture of employment, consulting, self employment - whatever suits those individuals best. so by continuing with your studies and even going into a mainstream industry there's no reason why you'd necessarily be trapped in a position that didn't suit you, probably quite the opposite - education and qualifications can give you tremendous freedom.
also, as an aside, in my line of work recently (doing a spot of marketing for a local college) i've been finding out all about tractor and forestry machine engineering - the guys i've come across that do this absolutely LOVE it! they have such good fun, the bigger the wheels the better it seems lol! it's a wonderful thing to fall in love with your career
i hope you can find a path to feel passionate about
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Ali Quadir - 12-04-2009
Go at it Clordio
I've been coding for a while myself. Though that was not my career choice in the beginning and I still do not regret it. It's a great area with so much to discover and figure out. A tinkerer can keep himself busy for centuries
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Clordio - 12-05-2009
(12-04-2009, 09:08 PM)Lorna Wrote: good luck clordio - remember that employment isn't the only option available, more and more people are becoming self employed, creating their own careers for themselves or undertaking a mixture of employment, consulting, self employment - whatever suits those individuals best. so by continuing with your studies and even going into a mainstream industry there's no reason why you'd necessarily be trapped in a position that didn't suit you, probably quite the opposite - education and qualifications can give you tremendous freedom.
also, as an aside, in my line of work recently (doing a spot of marketing for a local college) i've been finding out all about tractor and forestry machine engineering - the guys i've come across that do this absolutely LOVE it! they have such good fun, the bigger the wheels the better it seems lol! it's a wonderful thing to fall in love with your career
i hope you can find a path to feel passionate about
That sounds fun. How would one get into such a position? Possibly applying at the local forestry service?
(12-04-2009, 09:37 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Go at it Clordio
This is fantastic news! I see a lot of potential in computers for the future, especially in the area of the internet. In fact, the internet has been quite a catalyst for people to come together and share ideas.
The idea of being helpful to this endeavor excites me to no end. Thanks for the positivity Ali :]
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Ali Quadir - 12-05-2009
Well
We're not changing the world every day. Usually we're just happy to get a return for our gosubs 
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Clordio - 12-05-2009
(12-05-2009, 10:23 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Well
I see what you did there
RE: Is it weird... (career related) - Questioner - 12-06-2009
I think you might enjoy embedded system network programming. This means having small computers built in to things like motors and valves, so that that they can coordinate their activities with other devices in other locations, using Internet technology. You might like Chuck Moore's Forth programming system, which is extremely simplified for efficiency in this kind of application. Forth came out of work to position telescopes so they would follow stars through the night. http://www.simple-talk.com/content/article.aspx?article=775
(12-04-2009, 08:54 PM)Clordio Wrote: I don't want to screw a person over because it's in my job description. I'd rather leave that to the suits and I will provide an honest product/service to my customer.
Clordio, I enjoyed the rest of your post. When it comes to the point of view you described above, I encourage you to consider this perspective from Wallace Wattles.
It's a rather long excerpt but I don't want to take away from his well written point by trying to summarize it here. This chapter is online at http://www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTek-the-science-of-being-great-6.html and from there you can find the table of contents if you want to read the whole book this comes from, The Science of Being Great. I believe this passage aligns perfectly with the Law of One material.
Quote:Whether you have this faith or not depends upon your point of view. You must learn to see the world as being produced by evolution, as a something that is evolving and becoming, not as a finished work. Millions of years ago God worked with very low and crude forms of life, low and crude, yet each perfect after its kind. Higher and more complex organisms, animal and vegetable, appeared through the successive ages; the earth passed through stage after stage in its unfolding, each stage perfect in itself, and to be succeeded by a higher one.
What I wish you to note is that the so-called “lower organisms” are as perfect after their kind as the higher ones; that the world in the Eocene period was perfect for that period; it was perfect, but God’s work was not finished. This is true of the world today. Physically, socially, and industrially it is all good, and it is all perfect. It is not complete anywhere or in any part, but so far as the handiwork of God has gone it is perfect.
THIS MUST BE YOUR POINT OF VIEW: THAT THE WORLD AND ALL IT CONTAINS IS PERFECT, THOUGH NOT COMPLETED.
So it is of human society and government. What though there are trusts and combinations of capital and strikes and lockouts and so on. All these things are part of the forward movement; they are incidental to the evolutionary process of completing society. When it is complete there will be harmony; but it cannot be completed without them. J. P. Morgan is as necessary to the coming social order as the strange animals of the age of reptiles [dinosaurs] were to the life of the succeeding period, and just as these animals were perfect after their kind, so Morgan is perfect after his kind.
Behold it is all very good. See government, and industry as being perfect now, and as advancing rapidly toward being complete; then you will understand that there is nothing to fear, no cause for anxiety, nothing to worry about. Never complain of any of these things. They are perfect; this is the very best possible world for the stage of development man has reached.
....
All this does not prevent you from working for better things.
You can work to complete an unfinished society, instead of to renovate a decaying one; and you can work with a better heart and a more hopeful spirit. It will make an immense difference with your faith and spirit whether you look upon civilization as a good thing that is becoming better or as a bad and evil thing that is decaying. One viewpoint gives you an advancing and expanding mind and the other gives you a descending and decreasing mind.
One viewpoint will make you grow greater and the other will inevitably cause you to grow smaller. One will enable you to work for the eternal things; to do large works in a great way toward the completing of all that is incomplete and inharmonious; and the other will make you a mere patchwork reformer, working almost without hope to save a few lost souls from what you will grow to consider a lost and doomed world.
I added the italics.
So, you don't need to assume that someone who has a job of business strategy, finance, personnel decisions, etc. is unethical. (These days, it might not even be safe to assume they wear a suit at their job.) And I believe that even if those people are unethical, no matter what they wear while scamming and scheming, your love of the good you can do in your future is more powerful than any hate you could have of the sins in their past.