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+---- Thread: Perfecting the Body Complex: The Transformation (/showthread.php?tid=9660)
Perfecting the Body Complex: The Transformation - Hototo - 06-28-2013
(06-23-2013, 03:29 AM)Ankh Wrote:Ra, 12.31 Wrote:If there is no blockage, these energies pour or stream down into the mind/body/spirit complex perfecting moment by moment the individual’s body complex.
And since we are distortions the polite way of saying the same is.
"If there is no blockage, these energies will remove all awareness of the self moment to moment."
RE: Archetype 13... Transformation of the Body - JustLikeYou - 06-30-2013
Not Sure, why do you think that removing all awareness of the self is what is involved in perfecting the body complex?
Perhaps you are working with different definitions of "awareness" and "self" than I am, but since self-awareness is the distinctive mark of 3D, it is hard to imagine that the goal would be to remove it.
My experience, based on my own on-going process of clearing and crystallizing my energy centers, is that I become more and more aware of everything that is happening in my life at all time. The ego-self (i.e. the Significator of the Mind -- same thing) becomes less and less an impediment to my actions and more and more a helpful persona around which my experience in this life can cluster. Hence, I am less "self-conscious" in the negative sense of this word, but far more self-aware in the positive sense. The distinction between myself and others does not seem likely to lift fully because it is the basis of 3D experience; however, a keen and balanced sensitivity to the energies operative at higher levels allows me to feel on some level the connection and unity between all and all, making it more and more difficult to hold grudges, get embarrassed, be malicious, etc. I would say, then, that having no blockage leads to such a hightened awareness of fullness self, that the boundary between ego-self and higher self diminishes, as well as the boundary between self and other-self.
RE: Archetype 13... Transformation of the Body - Hototo - 06-30-2013
(06-30-2013, 08:32 AM)JustLikeYou Wrote: Not Sure, why do you think that removing all awareness of the self is what is involved in perfecting the body complex?
I dont feel like I said this, specifically.
I said that the way that perfection is stated in the original material means, to me, that if you reach the kind of perfection that you ostensibly seek, you will nto reach it, because you will not be the one to reach it because you are product of your chosen distortions (individuality). So the kind of perfection that is implied is never reached. While acceptance that all things are always in perfection will result in acceptance of perfection even amidst "the darkest of catalysts will only result in a tipping of the head back and laughter at the grim darkness."
I mean that if you reach the perfection of the body complex that you desire, you will not be the one that reaches the perfection and wont be perfection. However, if you look for no perfection and accept everything as perfection then the body complex is always revealed to be perfect in and of itself and the seeking itself seen to be the fault which generated the lack of health / perfection.
You may see how this view makes the seeker of external perfection seem a bit... Silly... to me...
And by external perfection I mean those that worship an external power in hopes that it grantes them "a god like body" that is "better than the one that I have now" which is usually only broken because it was treated like dirt to begin with and to dirt it will be returned then.
Therefore the transformation of the body, in this context, means the change of seeking the external as valuable and in position to grant the perfect body (oh Ra, On high and mighty, Harvest me to the body of light so I may make my back hairy and have a tail, because I would like to have my back hairy, and have a tail.) instead of looking at it like this. "Oh, cool. Now I know what to do next. I can try to find a way to use the available sources (people and technology provided by people) to change my body, incrementally to one with a hairy back and a tail, instead of praying for someone on high up to give them to me."
Transformation of the body is the understanding that you do not want to have a tail right now. And that you do want to go to the various health centers because you like to feel ill and have others pamper to your needs. Who wouldn't it feels good to have someone save you from yourself and pamper to your childish needs for comfort.
That being said. I'm all for being pampered and having my childish needs for comfort seen to. But thats only because I like to have people around me who like to see to the childish needs for comfort and pampering of other selves.
So in closing. "in perfecting" the body, yes you would have to remove yourself because you are in the mistaken assumption that you are "in perfecting" instead of "perfect in" the body. So. The initial assumption and the meaning read into my words were both not what I intended so I attempted to avoid the continued discussion as attempting to straighten such mistaken impressions is energy intensive. But I suppose since we have nothing else going on...
Quote:Perhaps you are working with different definitions of "awareness" and "self" than I am, but since self-awareness is the distinctive mark of 3D, it is hard to imagine that the goal would be to remove it.
Seeing as how we have not established what your definition of awareness and self are. I would have to by default say the scientific answer. I do not know.
There is no purpose to removing self awareness. But to try to reach perfection by "perfecting the body" is trying to remove your self awareness. Trying to reach perfection by "being perfect in the body", will result in the opposite.
Quote:My experience, based on my own on-going process of clearing and crystallizing my energy centers, is that I become more and more aware of everything that is happening in my life at all time.
But are you trying to build the perfect body in terms of health and visual appearances and so forth. Or are you trying to build a perfect setting for who you are now in your body.
Are you trying to make a work of art.
Or are you trying to make art out of work.
Quote: The ego-self (i.e. the Significator of the Mind -- same thing) becomes less and less an impediment to my actions and more and more a helpful persona around which my experience in this life can cluster.
Good that you are removing impediments to your life
Quote:Hence, I am less "self-conscious" in the negative sense of this word, but far more self-aware in the positive sense.
See, I can't know what the negative sense of this word is without knowing your moral systems interior. If you mean socially anxious of company. I can think of a million and one legitimate positively polarizing reasons why you would be "self-conscious" in the negative way in different situations up to and including into early pre-merged consciousness (6.5)
Without understanding what you mean by "self-conscious" here I could assume you mean anxious, outgoing, talkative, quiet, aware of the self as separate, lack of awareness of the self as separate. Since your negative sense of the word of self-conscious may not match my negative sense of the word self conscious, and due to assumptions of shared moral base for this. I cant make a assessment of what it is you are referring to and the sentence is moot.
Quote:The distinction between myself and others does not seem likely to
lift fully because it is the basis of 3D experience;
My thinking is that 4th D is more about distinction between yourself and the perceived other self. But that their way of looking at yourself and the other self is so radically different that you cant "interact" with them in a healthy way yet. And far as I can tell. Individuality and distinction between yourself and the other self continues until merged but the difference/individuality is done "differently" thus, it seems likely that it wont lift fully until the end of the basis of experience which is not 3rd D but rather, pre- 6.5 (before merging with higher self.)
Quote:however, a keen and balanced sensitivity to the energies operative at higher levels allows me to feel on some level the connection and unity between all and all, making it more and more difficult to hold grudges, get embarrassed, be malicious, etc.
Perhaps for you, but this is certainly not true for all entities. As it is, your personal reaction to the catalyst of unity as you feel it. some people will absolutely certainly react with holding more grudges, getting more embarrassed, being more malicious etc. The dulling and lessening of the strength of emotional reactions to catalyst is neither here nor there in terms of balance.
Quote:I would say, then, that having no blockage leads to such a hightened awareness of fullness self, that the boundary between ego-self and higher self diminishes, as well as the boundary between self and other-self.
Exactly. Having nothing you block will result in you being one with everything and vanishing.
That's 6.5< stuff.
I am simply saying that the idea isn't something as nebulous as "removing blockages" but rather, finding those blockages that are not consonant with what you want to be, trying to "balance" those. And leaving the distortions/blockages that you enjoy in place.
To give you an example.
If a pre-concious entity were told that it needs to remove the lock from its door because it blocks the spirits from entering, while living in the middle of Baghdad and getting threats of death, they may not enjoy the implied Martyrdom of that particular order of removing blockages. Now, getting them to move to a nice quiet place in the middle of nowhere and then getting them to remove the whole front door is quite acceptable.
In closing. Perfection of the body complex is in itself either positive or negative depending on which way it is looked at and if you look at it as "I am working towards becoming perfect" its negative, if you look at it as "I am working towards accepting the already existing perfection better." its positive. Thats why I feel Ra's answer is intentionally double-meaning.
But, I would in total prefer not to write things of this nature, at all. But since I was nudged several times I've written a few of these larger entries today. so lets hope this fits in there somewhere and doesnt get me hisssssed at too much.
RE: Archetype 13... Transformation of the Body - JustLikeYou - 06-30-2013
In general, I agree with you. I think the notion of a "new body" is commonly overblown, as you've suggested. Let us agree that the new-age fantasy world in which we get super-powers is not what either of us have in mind here. I implied earlier that the body includes your environment, not just the vehicle itself. The importance of this is that your surroundings can give you a good idea of the condition of your body.
Much of the work you are describing is mental and spiritual in nature. The Body Cycle is much simpler when considered on its own terms. Of course, there is always interaction between the three, but each has its own domain, so to speak. In the domain of the body, a more comfortable condition is earned--just as a less comfortable condition is earned. You are right that the body is already "perfect," but there are two senses of perfect to consider. There is the sense you mean, and there is also the sense meant in the sentence "perfectly capable of doing what is required of it." If you are always sick, lack energy and are weak, chances are not very good that you'll be able to build yourself a new house because your body is not fit for it. If you want a perfect body for being highly physically active, then there is probably a whole slew of imbalances which will need to be addressed before your body is capable of the task.
The perfection of the body is the capabilities it had upon birth. The imperfection of the body is the distortions it has taken on which are at odds with your will (caused by the confusion in your will, which gives mixed signals to the body).
I think the perfection you have in mind is a spiritual kind of work, and not as much a bodily kind of work. The perfection I have in mind is a matter of learning who you are and what you want your body to do. When you know this, then you will probably seek to learn how to treat your body so that it is capable of doing what you ask of it. Example: when I was younger, I wished for a larger body because I thought being so slender made me unattractive and weak. Then, when I learned better who I was, I realized that the things I love to do require agility, and only moderate strength. So now I appreciate that my body's inborn potentials are perfectly suited to my desires, and I seek to make it stronger and more agile only in ways that I need.
Again, I think we agree on most of the points you raised. The only point of contention, in my mind, is that a distinction between two senses of "perfect" needs to be drawn. This allows us to be both perfect and imperfect at the same time, granting the unity of the creator and also the ability to evolve.
RE: Archetype 13... Transformation of the Body - Hototo - 06-30-2013
(06-30-2013, 06:15 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: In general, I agree with you. I think the notion of a "new body" is commonly overblown, as you've suggested. Let us agree that the new-age fantasy world in which we get super-powers is not what either of us have in mind here.
Hmm.... I already have super powers. I simply choose not to use them because a world where no one uses super powers to solve mundane things is much more interesting than one where everyone throws fireballs around for the giggles factor. My body is already perfect in that regard. I simply respect my wish not to have said powers now.
Quote: I implied earlier that the body includes your environment, not just the vehicle itself. The importance of this is that your surroundings can give you a good idea of the condition of your body.
Surrounding is the Soul. Not the body. Though if you add that yes, the soul can show to you through your surroundings the condition of your body as it best desires then we agree.
Quote:Much of the work you are describing is mental and spiritual in nature. The Body Cycle is much simpler when considered on its own terms. Of course, there is always interaction between the three, but each has its own domain, so to speak. In the domain of the body, a more comfortable condition is earned--just as a less comfortable condition is earned. You are right that the body is already "perfect," but there are two senses of perfect to consider. There is the sense you mean, and there is also the sense meant in the sentence "perfectly capable of doing what is required of it."
Nothing is required of the body except to be. If that is not possible then the body has expired. This idea of "what is required of it" is exactly what I mean as being at the center of this dilemma. Nothing is required of the body to be, ever, period. YOU may require things of your body, but that is entirely different than saying that the body is in and of itself required to do something, it isnt. If you are born, and live your life in a catatonic vegative state ala Matrix, you are just as valuable to yourself as anyone else is to their self. Thus. It is already perfectly capable of doing what is required of it, sadly the same can very rarely be said for the Mind complex.
Quote: If you are always sick, lack energy and are weak, chances are not very good that you'll be able to build yourself a new house because your body is not fit for it. If you want a perfect body for being highly physically active, then there is probably a whole slew of imbalances which will need to be addressed before your body is capable of the task.
We are always limited no matter if we are gods or men or unity or separation.
IF we are gods in unity we are limited in our ability to feel as separated non-god entities in non unity.
Therefore like I said, always perfect. Though you can force yourself to see it as imperfect in a way to power yourself through the application of belief in imperfection as a method of moving, but it is much preferable to see the body as moving from one state of perfection to a new state of perfection where by the previous step is no less or more perfect than the next one but are both in their right time/space. But that is why, you know, we disagree on this.
Quote:The perfection of the body is the capabilities it had upon birth. The imperfection of the body is the distortions it has taken on which are at odds with your will (caused by the confusion in your will, which gives mixed signals to the body).
Simplification by a wide Texas mile.
But if you grant the following:
The body has all capabilities at birth.
Your chosen distortions away from the unity of things are what determine the density you experience now.
Confusion in "your will" is what allows other entities to exist at all.
Then i'll agree.
Quote:I think the perfection you have in mind is a spiritual kind of work, and not as much a bodily kind of work. The perfection I have in mind is a matter of learning who you are and what you want your body to do. When you know this, then you will probably seek to learn how to treat your body so that it is capable of doing what you ask of it.
This has little to do with transformation of the body and more to do with the transformation of the mind, i feel. The body needs no transformation it is already perfect, your utilization of it by not giving contradictory orders to it is what needs to be perfected. If you give it an order of "hey, i want to experience a limited life" and it grants it and then you moan at how you are in a limited life, there is very little your body can do except sigh and resign to its fate.
Faith the size of a mustard seed would make your body (locus of experience) capable of doing anything so desired.
Quote:Example: when I was younger, I wished for a larger body because I thought being so slender made me unattractive and weak. Then, when I learned better who I was, I realized that the things I love to do require agility, and only moderate strength. So now I appreciate that my body's inborn potentials are perfectly suited to my desires, and I seek to make it stronger and more agile only in ways that I need.
You didn't ask for a larger body, you asked for an opportunity to appreciate and love your slender body. There is a difference.
If you had asked for a opportunity to love and appreciate your large body, you would have a large body. See how it works when you keep in mind that your body is what it is because you, moment to moment, make it perfect already. The only thing that can be changed is for you to understand that it is always in all moments perfect, and it is only the will that is keeping it manifest in situations that are not possible to generate with our physics (such as be both tall and short, fat and thin and so on) that keeps on the illusion that it is imperfect. So the body cant be "perfected moment to moment" because it always and already is perfect, only the subjective mind that believes that it needs to perfect the body, instead of perfecting itself, is what is imperfect. But if the mind were to truly grasp the full extent of its perfection moment to moment, well... Thats a different question entirely...
Quote:Again, I think we agree on most of the points you raised. The only point of contention, in my mind, is that a distinction between two senses of "perfect" needs to be drawn. This allows us to be both perfect and imperfect at the same time, granting the unity of the creator and also the ability to evolve.
I would say that the best choice is to call it the perfection before this moment, the perfection for this moment, and the perfection after this moment.
If you want to have an opinion of imperfection, don't send it to your body, it has done absolutely nothing to deserve the mind complex to blame it for imperfection.
But yes, I agree, we need to split the perfection and imperfection into two camps.
I call perfection the camp where everyone is by default, and imperfection the camp where people who see imperfection are.
Imperfection maybe used as a word to describe the action of seeking for imperfection. Such as this:
"Hey man, what are you doing?"
"I'm imperfecting."
"Oh, did you find anything imperfect this time?"
"No"
"Oh, Thought so. What more perfect things did you find?"
"More than I care to share..."
Imperfection is best used as a verb to describe the insanity of searching for imperfection.
Thus best describe as the card of death.
Anyway. Transformation of the body is the event of understanding that you are perfect now, and this body will not die until the perfection desires is to die, not a moment sooner and not a moment later. Resting in that certainty of this moments eternity in the few short years that we have is perfection. Spending that time chasing the specters of imperfection across the landscape of this infinite dream is the definition of "this insanity".
IF we could only just stop looking for all this imperfection and enjoy the perfection of this moment, would that not truly be one fine moment of inspiration that would transform the body.
But I digress.