Non-Metaphysical Reality

[AnthroHeart]

Can the Truth of reality and what it is be described using non-metaphysical terms and concepts?

How can we have a down to earth understanding/knowledge of how things work without involving spirituality?

Even Science must leave stuff out, and Philosophy is probably just theory.

How could you talk to a skeptic or an atheist about how the universe is like a fractal?
Or other concepts that are not too far out there.

I don't want to continue to be too flighty and believe concepts just because they sound pretty.
Or resonate with things just because I agree with them.

Like where is the evidence of all this stuff that happens in the Law of One?
I'm just not feeling it.
But I'm happy.

[Aion]

Ah, critical thinking, it always strikes.

I would say there are some scientific theories which can be useful quite effectively. One example is the Holographic Universe theory. Another interesting one is the Electric Universe theory. String theory goes pretty far across dimensions and parallel selves and across time. You don't have to talk about 'sacred geometry' but can just talk about geometry. For some reason the word "sacred" makes people think it's something other than geometry.

My advice? Stay empty, question everything and accept you'll never know for certain.

[rva_jeremy]

I don't want to continue to be too flighty and believe concepts just because they sound pretty.
Or resonate with things just because I agree with them.

Like where is the evidence of all this stuff that happens in the Law of One?
I'm just not feeling it.
But I'm happy.

In my opinion, there is no evidence of sufficient gravity. Nothing is known; nothing is certain. There is no fact or aspect of existence that can subsist on its own.  Without the unity of infinity, all is relative, necessarily piecemeal, and devoid of ultimate context.

Instead of seeking to have this mystery resolved, why not celebrate the mystery?  After all, it may in fact be exactly as you suspect: the Law of One as we understand it is incomplete or flat out mistaken.  But it was never the intent of the Confederation or L/L Research to provide infallible facts.  The intent, as I understand it, was to inspire your own search, beyond the narrow confines of a reductive cosmology.

If it seems flighty to celebrate mystery, then consider that this is part of what incarnation is for: to ground our exploration of the ineffable in a drama of personified, embodied, limited, discrete phenomena. You don't need to apprehend the mystery in such an abstract manner; you can apprehend it, instead, in the moment-to-moment experience of interacting with other selves. In other words, there is a way to at once work with these concepts while still viewing them as part of your day-to-day, mundane life. Then it's not flighty in the least; it's just the spiritual equivalent of applying physics to the task of sweeping the floor; at once perfect and totally superfluous to the root of the activity.

I hope this helps.

[anagogy]

Like where is the evidence of all this stuff that happens in the Law of One?
I'm just not feeling it.
But I'm happy.

I guess you've been talking to your atheist friend a lot. Hard to share spirituality with someone like that isn't it? You can only talk in terms of the physical world.

What evidence would satisfy your requirements? Ask him what inspires him, and you will learn his vernacular for the infinite mystery pretty quick. Everyone has their "magic". They just frame it different terms.

[AnthroHeart]

Like where is the evidence of all this stuff that happens in the Law of One?
I'm just not feeling it.
But I'm happy.

I guess you've been talking to your atheist friend a lot. Hard to share spirituality with someone like that isn't it? You can only talk in terms of the physical world.

What evidence would satisfy your requirements? Ask him what inspires him, and you will learn his vernacular for the infinite mystery pretty quick. Everyone has their "magic". They just frame it different terms.

Yeah I talk to him at times. Funny enough, these thoughts came to me after I had watched a video supporting life after death on Netflix, with Raymond Moody in it. It moved me. But sometimes when I am moved, I become also more critical of things. He likes cars, and Science, and atheist things that refute Christianity. In the past I have found it dangerous to believe beyond what I have already seen. It's so easy to go crazy with theories.

I'm a very wishy-washy person. My beliefs change moment to moment, and I change sides very often. Depending on who has the more compelling argument.

Lately I've taken up interest in art and drawing, but even that I've lost some interest in. I started with 6 hours a day, but have really reduced. Since the furry convention, I have been exhausted, and sleep pretty late.

[rva_jeremy]

Reading anagogy's reply, I realized I didn't really address the heart of your post, IGW.

How could you talk to a skeptic or an atheist about how the universe is like a fractal?

I wouldn't even start there. I would start by becoming a skeptic of their chosen belief system, to get you both on neutral ground. Read some Ran Prieur or Robert Anton Wilson's The New Inquisition for ideas on the weak points of consensus fundamentalist materialism.

It didn't occur to me that you wanted to actually challenge the skeptic, because you just don't strike me as a debater. You call it being "flighty" but an open mind that can achieve stability is such a rare and needed commodity these days.

[AnthroHeart]

No, I don't really want to challenge or debate them.

I just tend to doubt myself when others bring up things that contradict what I say.

I want to learn to trust myself and defend my beliefs if needed.

[Sprout]

Defense and offense are one of the same thing. You don't have to convince anyone of anything, but rather be a support to those close to you when they conciously seek spiritual guidance, even then you mustn't take out all the big guns and direct them to TLOO. As Ra stated, it must be done through consideration of the other-self's level of awareness/knowledge.

[AnthroHeart]

Like where is the evidence of all this stuff that happens in the Law of One?
I'm just not feeling it.
But I'm happy.

I guess you've been talking to your atheist friend a lot. Hard to share spirituality with someone like that isn't it? You can only talk in terms of the physical world.

What evidence would satisfy your requirements? Ask him what inspires him, and you will learn his vernacular for the infinite mystery pretty quick. Everyone has their "magic". They just frame it different terms.

Yeah, my atheist friend can be rather negative in his tone at times. He's come down hard on me because I wanted to buy at $1000 display drawing tablet since I've  taken up art again and want to do digital drawing and painting. I tried buying a $500 one instead because of this, and it was not compatible with the software I used. So I actually bought a $1500 one instead because it was bigger and had better features. Whenever I make an apparent mistake or choose to do things he doesn't agree with he becomes pretty disagreeable. I guess I just need thick skin. Though he did one time surprise me by not being negative when I made a bad mistake.

He also does things to upset me, and I do things that upset him. I guess that's what friends do. I've known him for 20+ years. He has been really positive about my fursuit though. He also helped me build my last 2 computers and didn't mind me spending a bit on that too. He didn't mind in the least, and actually supported me spending $2000 on a fursuit. But a $1000 or more drawing tablet, forget it, because I'm not a professional. It's pretty much a hobby now. I've taken a few days off since the furry convention to rest up before I get back into drawing/studying for 6+ hours a day.

[anagogy]

Yeah, my atheist friend can be rather negative in his tone at times. He's come down hard on me because I wanted to buy at $1000 display drawing tablet since I've  taken up art again and want to do digital drawing and painting. I tried buying a $500 one instead because of this, and it was not compatible with the software I used. So I actually bought a $1500 one instead because it was bigger and had better features. Whenever I make an apparent mistake or choose to do things he doesn't agree with he becomes pretty disagreeable. I guess I just need thick skin. Though he did one time surprise me by not being negative when I made a bad mistake.

He also does things to upset me, and I do things that upset him. I guess that's what friends do. I've known him for 20+ years. He has been really positive about my fursuit though. He also helped me build my last 2 computers and didn't mind me spending a bit on that too. He didn't mind in the least, and actually supported me spending $2000 on a fursuit. But a $1000 or more drawing tablet, forget it, because I'm not a professional. It's pretty much a hobby now. I've taken a few days off since the furry convention to rest up before I get back into drawing/studying for 6+ hours a day.

"When push comes to shove, you gotta do what you love, even if it's a not a good idea."  

[rva_jeremy]

No, I don't really want to challenge or debate them.

I just tend to doubt myself when others bring up things that contradict what I say.

I want to learn to trust myself and defend my beliefs if needed.

You seem to have a sense that you are not your beliefs.  That's what affords you the freedom to be flexible.  For those who do not have this agility, it seems slippery, but that's merely their lack of ease with an identity deeper than what can be verbalized.  It is in the moment that truth manifests; philosophical commitments to definitions are ultimately ways of confining us.

[AnthroHeart]

My friend does make me laugh though. We make each other laugh. I guess that's what matters.

[Infinite Unity]

Well indigo, was that your money and decision how to spend your money?


I don't mean to pry....but it seems to me like you two are more than friends. Even if both of you haven't consciously become aware of it.

I think you should slow down a little bit, and stop being so reactive to impulse. Take time and think about your decisions. You need a firm foundation for the rest of the structure to be strong.