Beyond Light Speed: A Tenet Nosce suggestion

[Tenet Nosce]

According to your understanding, what would cause these neutrinos to be detected traveling faster than the speed of light by 1D apparatus?

Experimental error, most likely. For example, bad calculation of distance.

Faster-Than-Light Neutrinos? New Test Confirms Accuracy of Experiment's Initial Measurement in Flight Time of Neutrinos

ScienceDaily (Nov. 21, 2011) — Following the OPERA collaboration's presentation at CERN on Sept. 23, inviting scrutiny of their neutrino time-of-flight measurement from the broader particle physics community, the collaboration has rechecked many aspects of its analysis and taken into account valuable suggestions from a wide range of sources.

One key test was to repeat the measurement with very short beam pulses from CERN. This allowed the extraction time of the protons, that ultimately lead to the neutrino beam, to be measured more precisely.

The beam sent from CERN consisted of pulses three nanoseconds long separated by up to 524 nanoseconds. Some 20 clean neutrino events were measured at the Gran Sasso Laboratory, and precisely associated with the pulse leaving CERN. This test confirms the accuracy of OPERA's timing measurement, ruling out one potential source of systematic error. The new measurements do not change the initial conclusion. Nevertheless, the observed anomaly in the neutrinos' time of flight from CERN to Gran Sasso still needs further scrutiny and independent measurement before it can be refuted or confirmed.

On Nov. 17, the collaboration submitted a paper on this measurement to the peer reviewed Journal of High Energy Physics.

[zenmaster]

According to your understanding, what would cause these neutrinos to be detected traveling faster than the speed of light by 1D apparatus?

Experimental error, most likely. For example, bad calculation of distance.

Faster-Than-Light Neutrinos? New Test Confirms Accuracy of Experiment's Initial Measurement in Flight Time of Neutrinos

Not surprising. As predicted, they tried to check for errors in the measurement accuracy.

[Tenet Nosce]

Not surprising. As predicted, they tried to check for errors in the measurement accuracy.

Um... maybe you didn't read the article? It says they actually confirmed the measurements.

As you may recall, your prognostication on this finding was that it was false due to:

Experimental error, most likely. For example, bad calculation of distance.

[zenmaster]

Not surprising. As predicted, they tried to check for errors in the measurement accuracy.

Um... maybe you didn't read the article? It says they actually confirmed the measurements.

Um... maybe I did read the article?

As you may recall, your prognostication on this finding was that it was false due to:

Experimental error, most likely. For example, bad calculation of distance.

Your original question: "According to your understanding, what would cause these neutrinos to be detected traveling faster than the speed of light by 1D apparatus?"

My response: "Experimental error, most likely. For example, bad calculation of distance."

What was re-checked? Experimental error due to bad calculation of distance.

Re-read the discussion...

[Tenet Nosce]

Re-read the discussion...

Maybe this is experimental data on the other reality the earth is creating(4th density)?

I am taking this observation to actually be a result of "bleedthrough" effects of fourth density. Hopefully, this discovery will lead to some real scientific investigation into the densities.

It's a 1st-density measurement.

According to your understanding, what would cause these neutrinos to be detected traveling faster than the speed of light by 1D apparatus?

Experimental error, most likely. For example, bad calculation of distance.

My apologies... I still appear to be misinterpreting your words. It seemed to me you were saying that the finding of neutrinos traveling faster than light speed was most likely due to experimental error.

[Tyler Durden Maybe]

While not specifically related to the Speed of Light or Particle Speed in 3D, after clicking the link and glancing at the "Info-Graphic" (The Picture & Test results, in Seconds) I immediately thought of the following 2 Q & A from the LOO:

29.21 Questioner: This denser illusion then I would assume increases gravitational acceleration above the 32 feet per second squared that we experience. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Your entities do not have the instrumentation to measure spiritual gravity but only to observe a few of its extreme manifestations.

29.22 Questioner: This I know, that we can’t measure spiritual gravity, but I was just wondering if the physical effect could be measured as an increase in the gravitational constant? That was my question.

Ra: I am Ra. The increase measurable by existing instrumentation would and will be statistical in nature only and not significant.

My Postulate would be that the increase in Spiritual Gravity would explain this Statistical Incongruity.

[AnthroHeart]

So 4D light is increasing spiritual gravity then?
I wonder when the extreme manifestation of physical gravity will be affected.

[Tyler Durden Maybe]

Gemini Wolf,

I'll try to answer your questions, please note that these are just my personal theories and basically guesses at what is going on, I do not have a scientific/physics background or education. I have only studied others who do like Nassim Haramein and Gregg Braden.

First some of Ra's definitions:

29.16 Questioner: Can you tell me how the gravity comes about?
Ra: I am Ra. This that you speak of as gravity may be seen as the pressing towards the inner light/love, the seeking towards the spiral line of light which progresses towards the Creator. This is a manifestation of a spiritual event or condition of living-ness.

29.20 Questioner: Then when our planet is fully into fourth density, will there be a greater gravity?
Ra: I am Ra. There will be a greater spiritual gravity thus causing a denser illusion.

End of definitions. Beginning of my personal opinions and theory:

The "Extreme Manifestations" that Ra spoke of earlier, I believe that a Neutrino would be an example of this. Neutrino's are such a "One Off" particle and "Unusual" or "Extreme Manifestation" in 3d physical reality, that I believe that this is an example of what Ra means when he says "Extreme Manifestation", a Neutrino.

Explanation and Definition of Neutrino :A neutrino (English pronunciation: /njuːˈtriːnoʊ/, Italian pronunciation: [neuˈtriːno]) is an electrically neutral, weakly interacting elementary subatomic particle[1] with a half-integer spin, chirality and a disputed but small non-zero mass. It is able to pass through ordinary matter almost unaffected. The neutrino (meaning "small neutral one" in Italian) is denoted by the Greek letter ν (nu).
Neutrinos do not carry electric charge, which means that they are not affected by the electromagnetic forces that act on charged particles such as electrons and protons. Neutrinos are affected only by the weak sub-atomic force, of much shorter range than electromagnetism, and gravity, which is relatively weak on the subatomic scale, and are therefore able to travel great distances through matter without being affected by it. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino

My theory then: So as a Neutrino is only really affected by Gravity in a very small way and not any electromagnetic forces, then the very small increase (i.e. statistical in nature) in Spiritual Gravity/Gravity will than translate into a very small increase (i.e. statistical in nature) in the measured or so called "Speed" of the Neutrino, as my guess would be that it was being "Pulled" faster or something like that as an analogy. Since the experiment measured a time of only 0.00000006 seconds faster than expected, I think this is firmly in the arena of "statistical in nature only and not significant" as Ra says.

I'd be happy to try and explain this further or in another way, but this is my personal theory and what makes the most sense to me when trying to understand the results of these experiments, in the context of the LOO. Thank you.

[AnthroHeart]

Thanks Tyler. That clears it up for me.

[Tyler Durden Maybe]

Conifer16,

In regards to your question "How can any of us know what the speed of light is in other densities?"

The answer or explanation of this that has made the most sense to me is the information from Bashar. (I forget with Session(s), but if you're interested I can look it up)

Basic Scientific Definitions First:

Speed of Light in 3D: Approximately 186,282 miles per second or 299,792,458 per second. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

Planck Length: The Planck length is the length scale at which the structure of spacetime becomes dominated by quantum effects, and it would become impossible to determine the difference between two locations less than one Planck length apart. 16.162×10−36 meters or 636.30×10−36 inches (Basically it is the smallest distance possible in 3D space/time that still has "distance" in between two things before they become "one") see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units

Planck Time: In physics, the Planck time, (tP), is the unit of time in the system of natural units known as Planck units. It is the time required for light to travel, in a vacuum, a distance of 1 Planck length. Theoretically, this is the smallest time measurement that will ever be possible, roughly 10−43 seconds. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time

(Example from physics forum: if we could stretch time so that 1 Planck time unit became one second, 6.44044 × 10^-22 seconds would stretch to almost 380 Trillion years.)

Flicker Rate: Also know as frame rate, or how many vibrations/oscillations or possible achievable speed as measured in time. Like a movie frame rate of 24 frames a second, and a high speed camera (slow motion) frame rate of thousands of frames a second..

Note: While Basahr does not say specifically one way or the other, However it is my guess or theory that the Photon, or Particle Form of Light, as we experience it in 3D, may or may not exist in exactly the same way in 4D and above, and Light may be more in line with what we call the Wave Form of Light in higher densities. That is my guess, I cannot recall Bashar or the LOO providing the technical details of Photons/Particle Light Forms as it relates to other Desnities. Any information or thoughts on that would be welcome!)

The basic premise Bashar states is this:

Light Speed: This is actually more like the "Upper Boundary" of the Fabric of Space/Time in 3D. Or you can think of it as the highest Vibration/Oscillation/Speed possible in 3D. It's basically the cross over point at which any vibration above this would then be in 4D, if that makes sense. My GUESS is that Absolute Zero (or no vibration) is the Lower Bound in 3D, however he never says what the lower bound is.

Bashar states that the Plank Length and Plank Time represent/symbolize the 3D mathematical representations of the smallest "Weave" of the "Fabric" of Creation, including all Octaves & Densities. Creation in Totally, or the "Flicker Rate" of Creation. I did the math once, but it runs in the number of many, many Trillions or Quadrillions of "Flickers" or Vibrations/Oscillations per Second. In my words, I would say the rate of existence/creation/change/destruction of all of Creation.

So, each Octave and Each Density is made up of a very small number of these vibrations, even though all Octaves and Densities exist at once, just at different "Rates" or "Frequencies" much like how a Radio works, All Frequencies are there all the time, but you only receive the one you are tuned into to. Also, each Octave and each Density within that Octave has a Lower Boundary and Upper Boundary of "Flickers" or Vibration/Oscillations, and we call the Upper Boundary in our Density the speed of light.

So, in 4th Density, the Speed of Light is the Lower Boundary of their "Weave" or "Fabric" of Creation, and they have some Upper Boundary (or "4D speed of Light") that represents the vibrational boundary from 4D to 5D, and there's boundaries for 6D, 7D, the Next Octave, and on and on. I have no idea the mathematical calculations in order to determine the 4D Upper Boundary, I recall Bashar saying it was many thousands of times faster. So he would say the 4D "Speed" of Light is many thousands of times "Faster" than the 3D Speed of Light. But see this for an example: Just an example, not actual numbers or calculations:

3D: Lower Bound is Absolute Zero / No Vibration and Upper Bound is Speed of Light, which is lets say 1/1,000,000,000 (one millionth) of the Speed or Vibration of All of Creation.

4D: Lower Bound is the 3D Speed of Light, and the Upper Bound is whatever they call it, say "Their Speed of 4D Light", which is many thousands of times faster than ours, and which is lets say 1 / 100,000 of the Speed or Vibration of All of Creation.

5D: Lower Bound is the 4D Speed of Light, and the Upper Bound is whatever they call it, say "Their Speed of 5D Light", which is say millions of times faster than ours, and which is lets say 1 / 10,000 of the Speed or Vibration of All of Creation.

And so on, up all Densities in All Octaves. (just as an example)

So as you move up in Densities and Octaves you are experiencing or getting closer to the all the vibration of all of Creation, and the reason we only experience such as small part of creation (Our Octive and our Density) is that we are only experiencing or vibrating at a very very small percentage of all that there is and therefore only perceive that small percentage, even though all Octaves and Densities vibrate within the total vibration of Creation.

This is only because we "Perceive" such as small amount of the "Flickers" or Vibrations of all Creation, even though we can always expand this. Now perceive means both physically seeing with our eyes, but also perceiving with our Mind/Spirit. Our eyes can see about 30 frames a second. He says in 3D we can perceive about 60 flickers out of Trillions or Quadrillions of all of Creation. He says in 4D we can perceive about 300 - 1000 flickers, and so on and so on.

I have no idea if Bashar is right, however his explanation has always made sense to me on an intuitive level and resonates with me as correct. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions, critiques or comments . Thank you.

[Conifer16]

Thank you. That helps a lot :-)
And bashar has always made sense to me. His explanations have been so right on and yet so simple sometimes that all I can do is laugh as it was staring me right in the eye. :-)

-Conifer16- Adonai Vasu Borragus

[michaelangelo]

I do not consider myself more learned but have an open mind and are willing to look at possibilities beyond what we currently have an understanding of. The theory of relativity is all based around the speed of light and it would seem that as physical beings in a physical world that we are governed by this law. The recent experiments in measurements between the speed of Light particles and those of Neutrino particles indicates that the Neutrino particle may actually travel faster than the speed of light. If this is found to be conclusive which i feel will happen, then we are able to look at the reality of dimensions beyond the boundaries of this physical world. It has been said that there is such a thing as spiritual matter and that it does exist beyond the boundaries of relativity and the speed of light. For such a thing to be possible it would indeed need to be governed by a law that is not controlled by relativity and the speed of light. The possibility that there are particles that can exist outside the law of relativity suggests that there can and most probably is a reality that is universal and far more reaching than the physical one we are currently governed by. I believe that Neutrino particles are only the beginning and that in time we will find particles of matter that will travel even faster than they. In conclusion i believe that spiritual matter is a reality and that in time we will understand it if we will see it i do not know because for those that have attempted to describe it in the past it has been said it is more finer and purer than the physical eye can see and can only be discerned through spiritual eyes. When you think about it the Egyptians worshiped the sun as a God because i believe in some way they understood the law of relativity and that everything in their physical world was governed by it. But the Egyptians also believed in another world a world that was spiritual in the after life, they also believed in the christian resurrection and so was the reason they took the time to preserve the physical body as best they could as they believed it could be reunited with the spiritual body at some point in time. But i am certain that there is both a physical and spiritual reality and that in time we will start to gain a more in depth understanding of that of the spiritual beyond relativity and the speed of light.

Michaelangelo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

Maybe this is experimental data on the other reality the earth is creating(4th density)? In David wilcock's work he postulates that if something were able to pass beyond the speed of light then it would move into time space. However I seem to remember reading at some point that he also suggested that moving beyond TSOL would send what ever did it into the 4th density. Also ever noticed how speed of light in acronyms is SOL the name of our sun. Just thought that was a little funny Anyway I welcome discussion by more Learned peoples on this subject.

Thanks,
Conifer16
Adonai Vasu Borragus

[michaelangelo]

You should know that i have experimented with the spiritual sphere and call me crazy or whatever, but i know that such a thing does exist and have seen it and experienced it several times. I became more and more afraid of venturing into this area because it seemed that i was unable to control the things that happened and feared that i may die if i continued. But i have seen the physical from the spiritual, and i have seen the spiritual from the spiritual. So i know that this type of matter exists but are unable to explain it in Scientific terminology as the knowledge pertaining to this type of matter has not yet been discovered.

Thank you. That helps a lot :-)
And bashar has always made sense to me. His explanations have been so right on and yet so simple sometimes that all I can do is laugh as it was staring me right in the eye. :-)

-Conifer16- Adonai Vasu Borragus

[michaelangelo]

When you say the 4th density what are you referring too ? as it reminds me of George Mc Fly on back to the future when he said to the girl "you are my density" lol

I do not consider myself more learned but have an open mind and are willing to look at possibilities beyond what we currently have an understanding of. The theory of relativity is all based around the speed of light and it would seem that as physical beings in a physical world that we are governed by this law. The recent experiments in measurements between the speed of Light particles and those of Neutrino particles indicates that the Neutrino particle may actually travel faster than the speed of light. If this is found to be conclusive which i feel will happen, then we are able to look at the reality of dimensions beyond the boundaries of this physical world. It has been said that there is such a thing as spiritual matter and that it does exist beyond the boundaries of relativity and the speed of light. For such a thing to be possible it would indeed need to be governed by a law that is not controlled by relativity and the speed of light. The possibility that there are particles that can exist outside the law of relativity suggests that there can and most probably is a reality that is universal and far more reaching than the physical one we are currently governed by. I believe that Neutrino particles are only the beginning and that in time we will find particles of matter that will travel even faster than they. In conclusion i believe that spiritual matter is a reality and that in time we will understand it if we will see it i do not know because for those that have attempted to describe it in the past it has been said it is more finer and purer than the physical eye can see and can only be discerned through spiritual eyes. When you think about it the Egyptians worshiped the sun as a God because i believe in some way they understood the law of relativity and that everything in their physical world was governed by it. But the Egyptians also believed in another world a world that was spiritual in the after life, they also believed in the christian resurrection and so was the reason they took the time to preserve the physical body as best they could as they believed it could be reunited with the spiritual body at some point in time. But i am certain that there is both a physical and spiritual reality and that in time we will start to gain a more in depth understanding of that of the spiritual beyond relativity and the speed of light.

Michaelangelo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

Maybe this is experimental data on the other reality the earth is creating(4th density)? In David wilcock's work he postulates that if something were able to pass beyond the speed of light then it would move into time space. However I seem to remember reading at some point that he also suggested that moving beyond TSOL would send what ever did it into the 4th density. Also ever noticed how speed of light in acronyms is SOL the name of our sun. Just thought that was a little funny Anyway I welcome discussion by more Learned peoples on this subject.

Thanks,
Conifer16
Adonai Vasu Borragus

[Tenet Nosce]

When you say the 4th density what are you referring too ?

Here is a Law of One search for the term "fourth density".

[zenmaster]

http://transpower.files.wordpress.com/20...rinos1.pdf

With an overall significance of 6.0σ, the velocity of muon neutrinos from CERN through the crust of the earth to the underground Gran Sasso Laboratory has been determined to be in excess of that of light. The Reciprocal System explains this "anomalous" finding by mathematically extending the Special Theory of Relativity, in an inverse fashion, to the cosmic (inverse) sector. The calculated velocity is shown to be equal to the observed velocity within the experimental error.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Zen, I'm not educated in any sort of physics or terminology relating to such. Is the link you provided suggesting that the discovery of these faster-than-light-speed neutrinos is supportive of the Reciprocal System theory? Or is it just explaining how it would fit within the system?

[zenmaster]

Zen, I'm not educated in any sort of physics or terminology relating to such. Is the link you provided suggesting that the discovery of these faster-than-light-speed neutrinos is supportive of the Reciprocal System theory? Or is it just explaining how it would fit within the system?

Satz is explaining how it could fit within the Reciprocal System.

Another take from Bruce here: http://forum.rs2theory.org/forum/ftl-neutrinos

[zenmaster]

And finally, the experimental error:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-fast...iring.html

[Diana]

And finally, the experimental error:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-fast...iring.html

It will be interesting to see if there is a definitive conclusion based on corroborative experiments later this year.

What I wonder is, if we are now in 4D light as is speculated, could the dynamics of physics change? The speed of light is constant, while space and time are relative in 3D. It seems likely that more layers of the onion will be peeled.

[zenmaster]

What I wonder is, if we are now in 4D light as is speculated, could the dynamics of physics change?

Would not make sense. Doesn't change with 2D or 3D, so why 4D.

[Diana]

What I wonder is, if we are now in 4D light as is speculated, could the dynamics of physics change?

Would not make sense. Doesn't change with 2D or 3D, so why 4D.

Let me rephrase. The way we view the dynamics of physics may change, because we see a bigger part of the picture.

[zenmaster]

What I wonder is, if we are now in 4D light as is speculated, could the dynamics of physics change?

Would not make sense. Doesn't change with 2D or 3D, so why 4D.

Let me rephrase. The way we view the dynamics of physics may change, because we see a bigger part of the picture.

Yes, both bigger and more primary. Should lead to a more parsimonious and more unified system of understanding.

[3DMonkey]

What I wonder is, if we are now in 4D light as is speculated, could the dynamics of physics change?

Would not make sense. Doesn't change with 2D or 3D, so why 4D.

Let me rephrase. The way we view the dynamics of physics may change, because we see a bigger part of the picture.

Yes, both bigger and more primary. Should lead to a more parsimonious and more unified system of understanding.

What would suggest parsimonious?

[zenmaster]

What would suggest parsimonious?

As opposed to the "ugly and ad hoc" system we currently work with (such as the Standard Model). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structu...evolutions

[Tenet Nosce]

And finally, the experimental error:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-fast...iring.html

My hopes of having a time-traveling Dolorean are now shattered!