The Frustration of Myself

[isis]

I was at a concert recently in a venue where everyone had to stand on a sloping floor and there was nowhere to sit. So many girls had 4" heels on. There is no way they were comfortable and by the end of the night their poor feet must have been a mess. It reminded me of the Victorian age when women wore corsets so tight they could barely eat.

Did you know that men actually pioneered wearing high heels & women began wearing them to look more masculine? Men then ditched the heels as not to look feminine.

[VanAlioSaldo]

I was at a concert recently in a venue where everyone had to stand on a sloping floor and there was nowhere to sit. So many girls had 4" heels on. There is no way they were comfortable and by the end of the night their poor feet must have been a mess. It reminded me of the Victorian age when women wore corsets so tight they could barely eat.

Did you know that men actually pioneered wearing high heels & women began wearing them to look more masculine? Men then ditched the heels as not to look feminine.

Yes. Maybe that's why high heels seem to look good on anyone.

I must disagree and agree across various points. Its not just Hollywood, but the news, every public program, media sources. If its public entertainment, its teaching you something. Friends the show alone basically brainwashes you to believe normal life includes sex near daily. Do you know how popular that one show is? Take into account Fox news channel alone.

I don't think women purposefully actually intend harm. I think barely anyone knows themself enough to even know what they're doing versus what they really want.

Isis, you've compared American Society to African Third World Societies and Heavy Religious Societies.

Its ffallacious. If i posted a picture of some girls age 12 in kidgerie hand in hand with their mom and dad, would that look any better than the above pictures you posted?

Or the picture of what the girl who was told she had her rape coming looked like the night of?

You can't compare extremes and expect to understand more than if you compared it to something actually scalarly similar.

[VanAlioSaldo]

Isis may I just say ive been rereading your posts in this thread a few times across the night.

I wish our world was better in terms of nonjudgmental views.  I wish I could just completely agree with you, and in a weird way, I actually do.  I do think clothing is unnecessary in a sense that we use it to hide or accentuate ourselves, never realizing our body alone is sufficient as is always.

I dont think the clothing makes the person (See: The Suit Makes The Man) and I do think i should feel judgmental towards myself about finding clothing made to sexually accentuate erogenous zones attractive on children, which again, is all my issue is, which I am sorry for being so long in my explanations. I'll be honest, anyone below the age of 16 I'd have an issue with.
I wish I could just look, say, hey that's attractive, then be done with it in my mind and not care.  But I do worry about how it'll effect them growing up.  But then your side takes into account what mine doesn't especially since girls bully others much more in school settings, especially  if they don't conform to conform to certain standards.  Plus it is none of my business and their own free will to do as whatever they want to do or be.  As far as i should care, I'll consider it for my daughter, assuming i ever have one.

So in a weird way...I'm agreeing with you ultimately...But still have my doubts and worry's over how it will effect them.  But I try to be considerate of the depth behind your views and points.  There is a lot...  In the end I don't want to argue up to that point and flesh it all out.  I'd rather just agree with you.  I like your view.  I want your view to be true.  Best way in my mind to do that is to actually be open and considerate of said views.  Which I really was lacking on and I apologize for that.   I need to be better with that so.  I'm working on it.

[isis]

"It seems today...that all you see...is violence in movies & sex on T.V.!!! But where are those good old-fashioned values...on which we used to rely???"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife...ensorship/

Maybe you're right. Maybe females under 16 shouldn't be allowed to dress how they want. Who knows.

[Minyatur]

"It seems today...that all you see...is violence in movies & sex on T.V.!!! But where are those good old-fashioned values...on which we used to rely???"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife...ensorship/

Maybe you're right. Maybe females under 16 shouldn't be allowed to dress how they want. Who knows.

No ones knows, which is why we get to see anything.

[VanAlioSaldo]

Not...not allowed. Just provide them the other perspective of you don't need those clothes to be attractive to another person.

If we could just teach that I'd be satisfied to know they had another option and chose, rather than finding themselves falling into conformity without a choice in their mind.

[AnthroHeart]

I'd rather not wear clothes at all if I could help it, but I see myself inside as an anthro with fur, so no need for clothes.
Except maybe shorts to cover up my privates.
But in a tribe that would not even be necessary.

[isis]

Not...not allowed.  Just provide them the other perspective of you don't need those clothes to be attractive to another person.

If we could just teach that I'd be satisfied to know they had another option and chose, rather than finding themselves falling into conformity without a choice in their mind.

It's like you think that none of them know that dressing certain ways isn't required to be attractive...& that none of them have been taught that they have a choice in the matter.

I can see why you'd like to believe the ones dressing that way are all brainwashed & just trying to conform...but that's not always the case. & I think it rarely is.

[AnthroHeart]

When the people grabbed you isis, did you slap them across the face?

I got slapped across my face twice when I pretended to grab a girl's butt.

[isis]

When the people grabbed you isis, did you slap them across the face?

I got slapped across my face twice when I pretended to grab a girl's butt.

doh. I guess you didn't notice I edited that post away. oh well.

haha no I didn't...& it happened at school most of the times & I didn't even tell on them. I just thought, "human nature..." whilst smh. but I think the fact that it happened to me so much, at such a young age, when I wasn't dressing provocatively at all, really does go to show that it really doesn't matter much what you're wearing - the "danger" is there regardless. I know a guy that got his booty grabbed by an adult on a field trip when he was like 10ish...he certainly wasn't asking for it by the way he was dressed haha.

[AnthroHeart]

I got my face written on by permanent marker when I fell asleep on a field trip.

[isis]

I got my face written on by permanent marker when I fell asleep on a field trip.

hot

[VanAlioSaldo]

Not...not allowed.  Just provide them the other perspective of you don't need those clothes to be attractive to another person.

If we could just teach that I'd be satisfied to know they had another option and chose, rather than finding themselves falling into conformity without a choice in their mind.

It's like you think that none of them know that dressing certain ways isn't required to be attractive...& that none of them have been taught that they have a choice in the matter.

I can see why you'd like to believe the ones dressing that way are all brainwashed & just trying to conform...but that's not always the case. & I think it rarely is.

I've noticed a lack of understanding inference, as well as an abundance of assumption in this forum.

I'll attempt to fix this issue.

Just because I did not say,  ALL THE GIRLS MUST DO AS I SEE ARE AS I SAY AND MY WAY IS THE WAY

Does not mean I, AT ANY POINT,  ever, infered it, nor should you ever assume such of ANY person.

Its like I'm not assuming you think every Country and Society doesn't need clothes.

Seriously, please, why do you think I think that?  Is it because I'm American?  A white male?  A duude?  I have a personal bias. I'll.make sure to refer to such as absolute and all encompassing in all context.

I could have been heavily sarcastic cause I'm finding myself getting annoyed by the assumptions you make of my words.

If i need to be painfully specific and succint and...more specific to nearing over simplifying in order to maintain an appropriate albeit insulting view for everyone.  I will.

I'll ask once, not even nicely because I should not have to.

Please don't make judgmental assumptions of my issues based on your own.

I've already agreed with you.  What you edited out I already am aware of.  Stop assuming things about me and my views.  Who you think I am now is pretty wrong to the real thing.  I don't even know you even based on.some paragraphs you write.  How can I judge you and why do you judge me?

[isis]

I'll ask once, not even nicely because I should not have to.

Please don't make judgmental assumptions of my issues based on your own.

I apologize...but now it's like you think I wrote something like, 'you think all women that dress scantily do it bc they're brainwashed.'

I didn't write that. I wrote, 'It's like you think that...' meaning that's how you're coming across to me.

I was just trying to help you not be so frustrated with yourself...Basically just saying, 'Don't be frustrated...bc you could be perceiving things incorrectly.'

I told you that you could be attracted to the girls that are 8ish simply bc of pheromones. & that they could be (unconsciously) dressing the way they are simply bc they're ovulating/fertile...I said the root of the problem could be that they all just want to be free & be able to go naked if they want bc less clothes = more natural...& after all that you're still like, "Just provide them the other perspective of you don't need those clothes to be attractive to another person. If we could just teach that I'd be satisfied to know they had another option and chose, rather than finding themselves falling into conformity without a choice in their mind."

I think it's humorous that you want them to be taught that they don't need those certain clothes to be attractive & yet in your OP you admit that it's when they wear certain clothes that they are attractive to you.

[Minyatur]

All souls should be bodiless, then there would be no problems.

[VanAlioSaldo]

I'll ask once, not even nicely because I should not have to.

Please don't make judgmental assumptions of my issues based on your own.

I apologize...but now it's like you think I wrote something like, 'you think all women that dress scantily do it bc they're brainwashed.'

I didn't write that. I wrote, 'It's like you think that...' meaning that's how you're coming across to me.

I was just trying to help you not be so frustrated with yourself...Basically just saying, 'Don't be frustrated...bc you could be perceiving things incorrectly.'

I told you that you could be attracted to the girls that are 8ish simply bc of pheromones. & that they could be (unconsciously) dressing the way they are simply bc they're ovulating/fertile...I said the root of the problem could be that they all just want to be free & be able to go naked if they want bc less clothes = more natural...& after all that you're still like, "Just provide them the other perspective of you don't need those clothes to be attractive to another person. If we could just teach that I'd be satisfied to know they had another option and chose, rather than finding themselves falling into conformity without a choice in their mind."

I think it's humorous that you want them to be taught that they don't need those certain clothes to be attractive & yet in your OP you admit that it's when they wear certain clothes that they are attractive to you.

That is exactly my point?  The clothes make the attraction, which I am then potentially judged as being pedophile-like for finding such as I do.  That is my specific frustration, but you know.  I can't say tell the parents to better parent their children.  I can't tell society to stop pushing for that way of operation.  I can't really do anything but wonder why I'm supposed to deal with it, but not be able to complain about it without further being judged.  I'm tired of trying to explain the backwards ways of society as being set up to set me up to get hit for something I'm not actually into.  That being underaged attractions.  Which I'm not entirely sure everyone knows this, but where I live, someone could suspect you've done something to a child, and without the child's saying directly so, still get hit for it without having ever done so.  I had (had as in he's gone now for the obvious reason) a friend who's a labeled sex offender now for that exact reason.  For many years it's really messed with my head how someone can find something made to look attractive attractive, then because of that, have their entire life ruined.  And being put up as a sex offender, does essentially ruin your life if you ever had any real ambitions for a job beyond minimum wage that isn't...Sketchy.  And for my friend, it was enough to ruin his dreams, enough to end his life.  So I'm also very angry at society for this way of things...

...I'm frustrated at a lot of things Isis, I don't meant to take it out on you or anything or anyone except maybe the air and my bed, and I honestly may be misreading your overall tone.  I've been feeling like you've been sidestepping my points for your own, but above that, especially with the most latest response, you came off judging towards me in a way that is a very quick trigger for me, that being you immediately assume my position is more extreme than it actually is.  Which you have come off as from your first post.

It's like you think that none of them know that dressing certain ways isn't required to be attractive...& that none of them have been taught that they have a choice in the matter.

As my case and point.  I never said any of that.  I was incredibly terrified of posting my first post because this is a public forum, and I'm not exactly safe feeling on the internet overall.  I still am not even sure if it was worth posting this thread because I'm really not getting much to work with from it.  Nothing to help me understand why I have to be scared to just feel a certain way or why my friend is gone.

I didn't even want to bring him up, I've had people completely try to use it in the past as an excuse to justify this entire conversation and derail it on me, but he is the...Second Main Reason...Just...Redacted due to past experiences...  The first being trolls utilize his subject matter to derail me, the second being people have also used him as if he were 'I' referring to myself separately, and from there just ignoring the actual question overall for 'you're just looking for attention'.  I truly do find it disturbing to find a child attractive, even if it's the clothes that make them attractive, but attached to that, and what I find more disturbing, is how society pushes for them to dress that way.

I got the attracted-to bit out there on the first post specifically because if I don't, when it does come up, it typically is taken out of context and I'm not in the mood to try and ever, ever again, try to explain fully to an authority figure (as well as a counselor) why I don't find children attractive but do when they wear attractive clothing.  Which turns out, is normal.  (Yet that too, is also my point.)

I'm disgusted by it despite finding it attractive.  Because it's not supposed to be.  Children aren't attractive, they're beautiful, but not sexually desirable in any sense of attraction...they're just beautiful human beings.  Potential friends in a small cute sense of being friendly and playing with them if it's acceptable (I actually found I love children all the more since my son was born)

See, I'm so worried of people taking it the wrong way.  I know what happens when the law comes down on people for something like that.  Especially if they haven't even done anything but someone says one thing and that's all it took...  I don't even know if things are different now or if some sketchy issues arose with my friend.  He swore to me he never did anything, and considering I lost my virginity to him and he was my bestfriend at the time.  I truly believe him.  Which is why I truly believe there's something sketchy with the entire law regarding this exact subject matter.

I won't say there's a conspiracy to push for more inappropriate sexual desires.  But the overall contradictory set up of, children should not be viewed as attractive, but society pushes for them to dress as such, causing some older people to find them attractive where they normally wouldn't.  And that non-genuine attraction can, if discovered, lead them to being registered as a sex offender, if someone said they actually did something and the child doesn't say no, they get punished more. My only real thought of solution is to try and passively offer other options the only way I see as appropriately. Through the parents discussing such and such with their kids.

So.  I'm sorry.  I'm not ever calm when I come into this thread.  Frustration turns to anger for me pretty quickly for some memories.  This is one of them.

I'll try much more from now on to not respond in anger.  Again, I'm sorry for that Isis, please, truly.  I don't mean any harm or insult.  I am sorry.

[isis]

[Minyatur]

tl;dr : He explains himself better and says sorry for taking it out on you, that he didn't mean any harm or insult.

[VanAlioSaldo]

No, it's fine. I suck at promptness. It's deserved on my end.