Unity/Infinity/One

[Minyatur]

I wonder if Intelligent Infinity of itself is not so much different than an "ego" that encompassed infinite experiences of itself.

Real within illusions yet still not the Source of itself.

[anagogy]

I wonder if Intelligent Infinity of itself is not so much different than an "ego" that encompassed infinite experiences of itself.

Real within illusions yet still not the Source of itself.

The way I see it, the Primal Ego or Self, you are referencing is the 2nd distortion, otherwise known as the "Logos", which is the focusing of infinite energy. Prior to that, I think intelligent infinity was ego-less in its unfocused state. With the state of consciousness of ego, there is self recognition, and a sort of inner/outer dichotomy because that is the boundary of self recognition, or identity. It represents the proto self, that all individuations are holographic reflections of.

In intelligent infinity prior to distortions, I don't think there are any conceptions of self, because there are no boundaries in true infinity. It is almost like it is the embodiment of all possible choices at once (which is why free will is a distortion from the base reality--it is choiceless). Sort of like the difference between a block of wood, and all the "potential carvings" that exist within that block of wood. Intelligent infinity embodies the block of wood, to continue the analogy, thus embodying all potential carvings, but it doesn't see them as separate carvings as the other creative and primal distortions do.

When it chooses to focus on a particular array of choices, out of the infinity of possible choices, this represents the 1st distortion (or first "narrowing" of infinity), and then finds focus as the collection of chosen probabilities as the 2nd distortion, or the mind of the Logos.

[OpalE]

I still think that Infinity comes before awareness. Infinity existed without awareness, and then awareness came, and reflects infinity back on itself like shards of an infinite mirror.

I'm new here, so this may be a no-no; but i like symbols.  The tree of life is one of my favorite.

Your statement is precisely my understanding of the first sphere of the tree moving into the second:
The Infinite Mystery extends outward from itself; gazes back at itself as if into a mirror; becomes aware of its own infinite existence.

[ada]

I still think that Infinity comes before awareness. Infinity existed without awareness, and then awareness came, and reflects infinity back on itself like shards of an infinite mirror.

I'm new here, so this may be a no-no; but i like symbols.  The tree of life is one of my favorite.

Your statement is precisely my understanding of the first sphere of the tree moving into the second:
The Infinite Mystery extends outward from itself; gazes back at itself as if into a mirror; becomes aware of its own infinite existence.

Welcome to the forum OpalE.
This may very well be it however only as this universe is created, not actually infinity itself, when you have something that is infinite you cannot add more to it for there is no external source to add from (∞), infinity already posses everything, to become "aware" you need movement, time, change, where there is no time there is infinity.

[anagogy]

I'm new here, so this may be a no-no; but i like symbols.  The tree of life is one of my favorite.

Your statement is precisely my understanding of the first sphere of the tree moving into the second:
The Infinite Mystery extends outward from itself; gazes back at itself as if into a mirror; becomes aware of its own infinite existence.

The tree of life is one of my favorite symbols as well.

I would only submit to you that that there are many types of awareness. And a lack of 'self awareness' does not necessarily imply 'no awareness'. The heart of infinity is always aware, it is like an unblinking eye, always seeing, always witnessing, never judging. Self awareness, or what we might call "mind", is a perspective of consciousness that acts like a mirror, allowing spirit to turn in on itself and see itself from an 'outer' perspective. The reflection it looks upon is what we call "matter" or "body".

[Patrick]

...we are the infinite possibility/probability in One...

Very well stated !
 

[OpalE]

Welcome to the forum OpalE.

=)  thanks.  i missed this... apparently i need to look for / tweak alert settings.

[Infinite Unity]

My current 'life' philosophy(no different than your own), be it right/wrong I will share regardless for we are one.
I want to point out once again that my ability to express is very limited and the language is also an issue, anyhow forgive my crippled methods of typing.

The title, it requires me to add everything in existence, and it still will not be enough, so lets just call it One. One has no beginning or an end, this means that we have no beginning or and end. The now we experience at this particular moment is exactly the same now that has always been going far back infinitely. We think of the universe/ourselves as something that started from a certain point when One has desired(I'm not saying that we started existing but rather the evolution we are going through as mind/body/spirit), but this is not so, because when you deal with infinity then as you know everything must exist always. This universe has existed ever since inside One, thus we are infinity in a sense that we are the infinite possibility/probability in One. I hope this makes some sense, I'm struggling to elaborate.

I disagree with conventional philosophy in one regard. I do agree that nothing has changed, in that the same original One(substance/Identity), is all there is. However everything is completely different. I tend to think of sacrifice, and all things being sacramental. This great "effect/Law" is balance in another name. I believe this sacrifice originates due to the first macroscopic/archetypical, if you will, sacrifice. That of the original form/configuration/state of "Infinity/One". However The ultimate reality, was reached automatically/instantaneously. Hence the name Master of Masters, given to the creator. We and what we exist/experience, is kinda like a gap that the creator "could" "see" being there, and these being steps to Mastery. Infinite Intelligence is in no way short of the "level/description" of The Creators Intelligence. So an ultimate blissful "unchanging" Infinity/state does exist, but to me for an entirely different reason.

[Heart4]

Is the 'one infinite' a mind? Because it seems that free will and consciousness only 'activated', so to speak, because of an unconscious bias towards manifesting the infinite through the instinctual original desire, which was also unaware of itself. So it would seem that the creator had some ambiguous mind in itself, and that would possibly imply that not only can we understand such a mind, but that we can define or identify whether that mind is instrumental to the paradoxes and distortions or whether paradoxes and distortions are instrumental to that mind.

[Agua]

removed

[Infinite Unity]

Is the 'one infinite' a mind? Because it seems that free will and consciousness only 'activated', so to speak, because of an unconscious bias towards manifesting the infinite through the instinctual original desire, which was also unaware of itself. So it would seem that the creator had some ambiguous mind in itself, and that would possibly imply that not only can we understand such a mind, but that we can define or identify whether that mind is instrumental to the paradoxes and distortions or whether paradoxes and distortions are instrumental to that mind.

I would agree with Agua, but at the same time. I believe you should follow your own line of inquiry. It has a way of being/bringing us to right where/what we need. Keep up the good sleuthing, oh Seeker.

[Plenum]

I've just been re-reading the book 'I am That'.

In my opinion, it's the most comprehensible account of the experience of Intelligent Infinity.  It's contemporary, it's in dialogue format - which is the best teach/learning method imo - it uses simple language and relatable analogies.  

And - most importantly - it's consonant with many other descriptors that others have given.

And for those who have had 'glimpses' of it themselves - however soul-searingly brief - it has the ring of fidelity.

[AnthroHeart]

I've just been re-reading the book 'I am That'.

In my opinion, it's the most comprehensible account of the experience of Intelligent Infinity.  It's contemporary, it's in dialogue format - which is the best teach/learning method imo - it uses simple language and relatable analogies.  

And - most importantly - it's consonant with many other descriptors that others have given.

And for those who have had 'glimpses' of it themselves - however soul-searingly brief - it has the ring of fidelity.

Thanks. I added that book to my wish list. When I finish the mystical qabalah, I will look into it.

[Agua]

removed

[AnthroHeart]

Is the 'one infinite' a mind? Because it seems that free will and consciousness only 'activated', so to speak, because of an unconscious bias towards manifesting the infinite through the instinctual original desire, which was also unaware of itself. So it would seem that the creator had some ambiguous mind in itself, and that would possibly imply that not only can we understand such a mind, but that we can define or identify whether that mind is instrumental to the paradoxes and distortions or whether paradoxes and distortions are instrumental to that mind.

Since my first post has probably not lead to satisfaction, i'll try to add on that a little:

Every little "thing" you are looking for is INSIDE of you!
There is nothing to be found outside of you!
Everything you see outside is, in a way, a projected illusion of what you/we are inside.

So, if you are seeking deep understanding and " knowledge", you have to seek within, you have to investigate your self!

I'll try to explain, why i think you progress much faster when you give up to conventrate on intellectual undrstanding:

You ask if the creator can be defined.
What is defining?
One could say, defining is the describing of certain qualities something or someone has while at the same time EXCLUDING what it is NOT!
The creator is EVERYTHING! Everything there is, there was and ever will be. Everything that exists as well as everything that does not exist.
So by defining you EXCLUDE something of EVERYTHING, which quite logically implies, every definition of the creator MUST be wrong!
At the same time, every definition of the creator is, to a degree, right.

So, considering this, defining the creator is a futile attempt with only wrong understanding as a possible output!

If you want a definition:
The creator is an idiot, it is the absolutely most stupid imagineable idiot you can possibly think of.

That would be a correct definition, since it is something the creator is capable of creating.
At the same time it is completely wrong, since being an idiot is only possible in an illusory seperated and god-denying state of being.

You ask if the creator is a "mind".
I guess in a way one could say that, but with two limitations:

-The creator is much more than a mind.

-Your understanding of "mind".
The very fact that you ask this question implies that you are probably familiar with the intellectual mind only.

The intellectual mind is NOT the mind, but only a tiny, little facette of the mind.
It is, in fact, the ego's version of the mind, it is in most humans compulsive and neurotic and thus HEAVILY distorted!
The ego is the false, illusory personality that we identify with, but which is NOT our true self.
The ego is build for creating seperation, seperation from our real self, seperation from god, seperation from everything.
So the intellectual mind is a tool that is only capable of thoughts that seperate.

And it is designed to work INSIDE the illusion of seperation, our 3D world.
Within this illusion, it is very useful.
Outside the illusion is completely useless.
Every single concept or thought that it can possibly come up concerning anything outside the illusion is utterly and completely wrong!

So, in that light and if you equate mind with intellectual mind, the answer would be: the creator is not a mind!

I would suggest a meditation practice.
When you meditate and lets say you can reach a state of non-thought something fascinating will happen:

when you are in a state of non-thought for lets say 10-15 minutes, your consciousness begins to expand more and more. There is no thought and you realize that you still are conscious, you even realize that before you have been completely unconscious.
You begin to experience an intelligence that is infinite greater than what you are used to.
This is where you begin to experience what the MIND, what YOUR MIND really is (as opposed to the intellectual mind).

The intellectual mind, lets compare it to a scissor. You can cut and seperate and divide things with it. But you cannot glue things together with a scissor.

If you cut a piece out of oneness, it is not oneness anymore, it is manyness.
Your intellect might make you believe that you now understand a part of oneness
I guess its clear how ridicoulous that is.

All you can gain is the illusion of understanding oneness, while in fact you are not dealing with oneness at all but with manyness!

When you experience oneness, which is entirely possible, you will realize a few things (in regards to this discussion):

Every imagination, picture, idea, concept you ever had of oneness is completely and utterly wrong!
Every attempt to "understand" oneness did not bring you closer to oneness but in fact pushed you further away from!

And i am sure everybody that has experienced oneness does agree on that!


The experience of oneness does not happen when you have collected enough knowledge, it will happen, when your consciousness is ready for the experience
To give a few hints:

Oneness is HUGE, its infintely huge. It is so huge beyond any imagination, that you might fear to get lost in it.
You will realize that your self perceiption has been completely illusory, and in the presence of that huge, infinite truth, you will absolutely and completely dissolve. You cease to exist.
Your identity will completely collapse.

It is necessary to develop a very stable spiritual "I", because the ego dies in that experience. When you identify completely with your ego, and clinging to the intellect IS an expression of total identification with the ego, your inner self might probably NOT allow such an experience, the threat would be to big.

Increasingly higher states of consciousness are always increasingly stronger in energy.
You can only allow experiences that contain an "amount" of energy you can handle.
Intellectual investigation does NOT prepare you for that, not the slightest!
You might notice that every concept or thought is only an abstraction, it is not the real thing.
Whether you think of the creator or think of a piece of s***, it all is the same amount of energy.
So there is no way this can bring you closer to the real thing.

Even experiencing a tiny partial connection with your higher self (i mean real connection, not a conceptual connection) confronts you with an energy that is so strong that its almost unbearable.

Increasingly deeper spiritual experiences will lead you in increasingly time-less states, oneness is absolutely timeless.
There is only the NOW and everything happens in that NOW.
A serious challenge for intellect based being, isnt it?
For many it is already hard to accept the idea, just the concept, of true simultanity. But experiencing this as the ONLY truth is a different thing!
If you examine your ideas and concepts of the creator, you might realized that they are based on time, since the intellect is based on time. This indicates that all those concepts are completely untrue.

An experience of oneness will lead to the realization, that everything you ever thought you know is not true.
It will completely change your life and there is no way you could go back!
Everything that you have clinged to, everything that gave you security, it all collapses.

The good thing is, there will be infinite deeper knowledge, infinite deeper security.
But only AFTER you have let go of everything!

Are you ready for that?
If not and you really want to "know" start developing what will enable you to make these experiences.
For me, the very first step has been the realization, that my intellect cannot possibly lead me there

I hope that answer was a little more satisfactory!

I would like to add, that words, language, cannot convey the real thing. So everything I said can, at best, only serve as a hint to point to misunderstandings, hopefully to paths that could lead you there.
But still this all has nothing at all to do with the "real thing"
Thats my main message in that post!

P.S.: I forgot to adress the paradoxes. The paradoxes are not in the creator, they are in you (or us). They are a consequence of limiting concepts, beliefs and a limited state of evolution. As you (we) evolve, all paradoxes will little by little dissolve.

Thank you agua. The part of mind going beyond intellectual mind stood out.

I also liked this, because I am seeking oneness with God (Unity with God) and I don't want to lose my mind.:

Oneness is HUGE, its infintely huge. It is so huge beyond any imagination, that you might fear to get lost in it.

You will realize that your self perceiption has been completely illusory, and in the presence of that huge, infinite truth, you will absolutely and completely dissolve. You cease to exist.
Your identity will completely collapse.

It is necessary to develop a very stable spiritual "I", because the ego dies in that experience.

[Infinite Unity]

I still think that Infinity comes before awareness. Infinity existed without awareness, and then awareness came, and reflects infinity back on itself like shards of an infinite mirror.

That's how it all breaks down. These words we identify as this or that. Actually are something in Infinity. For example what if awareness truly is nothing more then a gigantic ass mirror? Huh? do you see what I am saying? Nothing is how we think it is, and is.

I also think you existed before infinity; and not, because you are infinity. Its just a transformation. A reorganizing of the self to allow for new potentials, and mechanisms of creating and knowing the self. You our infinity, infinity is us.

Eh I disagree with identity itself dissolving. The aspect of identity that is ego, does die. For it is intimately intertwined with the chemical elements of the yellow ray body. There is only this identity, this you. Everything is exactly how you see it, yet not at the same time. You are you, yet right now you are a distorted you. We heal and evolve to bring/be more of the true us. This identity is the creator, the creator: Is all that there is.

Who is there to get to know, if the creator is no one at all? The creator is not ego however.

[loostudent]

We think of the universe/ourselves as something that started from a certain point when One has desired(I'm not saying that we started existing but rather the evolution we are going through as mind/body/spirit), but this is not so, because when you deal with infinity then as you know everything must exist always.

Ra: I am Ra. Each mind/body/spirit or mind/body/spirit complex has an existence simultaneous with that of creation. It is not dependent upon any physical vehicle. However, in order to evolve, change, learn, and manifest the Creator the physical vehicles appropriate to each density are necessary. Your query implied that physical vehicles accelerated growth. The more accurate description is that they permit growth. (105.16)

[Infinite Unity]

My current 'life' philosophy(no different than your own), be it right/wrong I will share regardless for we are one.
I want to point out once again that my ability to express is very limited and the language is also an issue, anyhow forgive my crippled methods of typing.

The title, it requires me to add everything in existence, and it still will not be enough, so lets just call it One. One has no beginning or an end, this means that we have no beginning or and end. The now we experience at this particular moment is exactly the same now that has always been going far back infinitely. We think of the universe/ourselves as something that started from a certain point when One has desired(I'm not saying that we started existing but rather the evolution we are going through as mind/body/spirit), but this is not so, because when you deal with infinity then as you know everything must exist always. This universe has existed ever since inside One, thus we are infinity in a sense that we are the infinite possibility/probability in One. I hope this makes some sense, I'm struggling to elaborate.

Yea its very hard to grasp that there was no beginning, and will be no end. When incarnating or inhabiting a human vessel. Everything in our lifes seem to flow in a chronological manner. We are born and travel through are lives, each prior moment building or potentiating whats possible next. So its really hard to go beyond these parameters, and see that there is only one moment. That cycles seemingly dividend up the moment into "moments". Yet beyond the cycling of the sun and all other cyclings, there is only one moment.

I believe its weirder then just saying everything existed forever. In a way it did, due to the source already containing all possible potentials, and that source always being what is, and playing every role that is.

[flofrog]

Yea its very hard to grasp that there was no beginning, and will be no end. When incarnating or inhabiting a human vessel. Everything in our lifes seem to flow in a chronological manner. We are born and travel through are lives, each prior moment building or potentiating whats possible next. So its really hard to go beyond these parameters, and see that there is only one moment. That cycles seemingly dividend up the moment into "moments". Yet beyond the cycling of the sun and all other cyclings, there is only one moment.

I believe its weirder then just saying everything existed forever. In a way it did, due to the source already containing all possible potentials, and that source always being what is, and playing every role that is.

lol  it makes you dizzy doesn't it ?   So Infinite, do you think that once we are back in time/space, and after having reviewed the past incarnation,  we plan the new one and then,  like we are an organist,  we pull on one plug to choose the Earth time space/time when to go  back  ? Like,  for example,  I am going back now in one week, leave  from Earth, review and learn from this incarnation,  and then plan the new one with the things I want to experience and I am allowed to pull the plug on let's say 1565 in Italy ?  

[Infinite Unity]

No doubt. There is no separation. Any time and place is potentially available, If the entity is of the awareness or capability.

There is extensive differentials between entities even in time/space. Ranging from not choosing any of the experience, to developing or designing practically everything/anything.

However I do believe There is a present moment in which it is "real time" that all other time and places are apart and a substrait of.