In regards to eating meat

[Bring4th_Austin]

Some plants have some pretty obvious defense mechanisms.

For instance, a healthy and natural kale plant will grow thick little hairs on both the stems and leaves. This is to prevent bugs from eating it.

Is this a natural method of selection? Say to allow for the chance of a mammal to eat, rather than the insects? It may be that the natural habitat would allow for the insects to get their sustenance from all the neighboring plants, while keeping an extra level of defense in order to keep sustenance available for another species that coexists in the same area. The word Flourish comes to mind.

I would assume that it would be hard for species overlap if everything was eaten by insects. While at the same time, if the insect predators are eliminated the insects would be able to overpopulate and eat everything, including all mammals/us.

That's logical if we subscribe completely to divine design and throw away everything we know about how things evolve through genetics.

Things evolve to where they have a better chance for survival. The better a being survives, the better chance it has to reproduce. It passes on whatever genes allowed it to survive to the next generation. The whole point of passing on genetics is to allow for a better chance of survival to the next generation.

The hairs the kale grows is simply a mechanism for survival, not survival against bugs, though that is the particular circumstance it allows the kale to survive.

Given another few hundred thousands years, the hairs could become thorns, preventing even humans from eating it. This is what really prevents us from killing and eating spiny amaranths and other spiny plants.

While I realize not everyone has the same beliefs regarding genetic evolution and divine design. But it is undeniable that a living being will continue to evolve to better suit itself for survival. Weak genetics = lesser chance to survive = less chance to reproduce = those genetics disappear. Strong genetics = greater chance to survive = more chance to reproduce = those genetics are passed on. It's the nature of nature, to strive to survive.

Plants have genetics, they strive to survive. I believe that just because we can't relate to their existence doesn't mean they have a different purpose in life.

---

The perpetual and rather non-sensical parallels being drawn with regards to eating plants however, is fruitless (pun intended)!

It's your opinion that such parallels are non-nonsensical, which is what drives this discussion.

I personally feel it's nonsensical to cherish an animal's life and not a plant's to such a degree that one would choose to kill one over the other.

(Response directly to Namaste, no need for a response from someone who I have already discussed this with.)

[3DMonkey]

Is that wrong?

Not in itself. But I can say that most cases they did something wrong to get into that position. Such as............diet. ingesting the wrong thing. These days taking antibiotics can kill off the flora in the gut, which can end up fatal. This happens as a result of lacking in that bacteria to begin with, because of...........diet. lol

Things can turn full circle, it is always best to be informed. We are attempting to inform. Although even informing is sts.

Candida cleanse?

Pickle, I would honestly read a "health" thread if you were to start one.

[BrownEye]

Old thread I put up a while back. Basic info. Just to get folks to "look" at what they eat. My opinion on the best nutritional info would be Gabriel Cousens.
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...at+you+eat

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Also, Unity100 had a link. http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...at+you+eat

[Monica]

(Aside from those rare medical exceptions.)

Another rare medical condition involves the need to ingest a relatives feces.

I think rare and need are key lol.

Haha! Oh wow, I didn't think of that, but you are soooo right! There are rare individuals who crave human blood, others who like to eat feces, others who like to eat dirt, and even some who like to eat glass!!

---

Plants have genetics, they strive to survive. I believe that just because we can't relate to their existence doesn't mean they have a different purpose in life.

Austin, I would love to hear your opinion of The Botany of Desire.

---

My opinion on the best nutritional info would be Gabriel Cousens.

I agree 100%! He has the most balanced view, he has the best of both worlds, being both holistic and an MD, he is highly spiritually aware so he views diet from a spiritual perspective, and he has tons of experience with those who thought they "couldn't" be vegetarian because of meat cravings. He has a near 100% success rate 'curing' those who "tried but couldn't" be vegetarians!

[BrownEye]

The feces comment was based on a medical "fix" to jumpstart the bacterial process. Which was the reason for getting it from a relative. It had to be pumped into the stomach because who in their right mind would eat it? But yeah, they would have died without that particular treatment.

---

You know, I think I am watching a polarization actualization. I have been watching a lot of people suddenly put a lot of emotion behind their opinion. All over the net. It was especially seen in Unity100.

In my view polarization is not balance, but extreme polar opposites. This is all very interesting.

[Monica]

The feces comment was based on a medical "fix" to jumpstart the bacterial process. Which was the reason for getting it from a relative. It had to be pumped into the stomach because who in their right mind would eat it? But yeah, they would have died without that particular treatment.

I had never heard of that! (and I thought I'd heard of everything, until recently I learned of the 'injecting tapeworms' treatment in Mexico...ugh)

You know, I think I am watching a polarization actualization. I have been watching a lot of people suddenly put a lot of emotion behind their opinion. All over the net. It was especially seen in Unity100.

In my view polarization is not balance, but extreme polar opposites. This is all very interesting.

You mean just showing more emotion, whether positive or negative? Just getting more charged up over stuff?

[BrownEye]

Yes. Taking more of a stance, investing actual emotion into a concept. I was baffled at first watching Unity.

[Monica]

Yes. Taking more of a stance, investing actual emotion into a concept. I was baffled at first watching Unity.

I have felt a shift since 11-11. But that's for another thread...

---

Man, this thread grows fast...

But seems to go nowhere!

I think I'll join in again.

By divine design, humans need to eat. We have to eat something.

1) Consumption is part of many plant's reproduction/survival system, and hence encouraged
2) Sending gratitude to the plant before consumption is proven to nullify any response
3) Animals have emotions (fear), and a nervous system (pain)
4) Animals will avoid being consumed at all costs

It's quite simple - we either eat something that offers itself to being eaten, or we eat something that fears being eaten. Or both! We get to choose.

Trying to justify one's self regarding the consumption of meat, by using plants as a counter argument, holds no valid ground. Let's be honest, it's ridiculous. Ridiculous to such a degree that the discussion has managed to escalate to the use of petrol :¬)

If someone wants to eat meat - eat it! That's an entirely valid choice. The perpetual and rather non-sensical parallels being drawn with regards to eating plants however, is fruitless (pun intended)!

Can we all hug and get on with it?

Thanks Namaste!

...for saying what I was thinking but refrained from saying for fear of not being politically correct. :-/

Now can I close the thread?

[βαθμιαίος]

Now can I close the thread?

Do you want to? I was getting read to compose a reply but I'll let it go if you're about to close the thread.

[BrownEye]

Maybe we can start up a new party LOL!

[Tenet Nosce]

Is that wrong?

Not in itself. But I can say that most cases they did something wrong to get into that position. Such as............diet. ingesting the wrong thing. These days taking antibiotics can kill off the flora in the gut, which can end up fatal. This happens as a result of lacking in that bacteria to begin with, because of...........diet. lol

Things can turn full circle, it is always best to be informed. We are attempting to inform. Although even informing is sts.

Yes. And it goes beyond even this. Evidence suggests that various organisms living in the gut (bacteria, fungi, parasites) can produce certain chemicals that essentially allow them to "hack" into the system and effect changes in one's personality and behaviors.

[Monica]

Do you want to? I was getting read to compose a reply but I'll let it go if you're about to close the thread.

Oh gosh no! I was just kidding! I loved Namaste's answer so much. It was a reference to a joke I made before. Sorry I didn't make it clear I was joking.

We almost never close threads, fyi.

[Diana]

Now can I close the thread?

Do you want to? I was getting read to compose a reply but I'll let it go if you're about to close the thread.

Is this a joke, or do you want to really close the thread? Is something like that ever done? If so, why?

[Tenet Nosce]

I agree 100%! He has the most balanced view, he has the best of both worlds, being both holistic and an MD, he is highly spiritually aware so he views diet from a spiritual perspective, and he has tons of experience with those who thought they "couldn't" be vegetarian because of meat cravings. He has a near 100% success rate 'curing' those who "tried but couldn't" be vegetarians!

Yes, this makes total sense! See... but we need to work at the level of craving. At a fundamental level, people crave meat because there is something essential that the meat provides to the body. This seems to go beyond the issue of protein, but is still kind of elusive.

If we can fulfill that function in a different way... then I say go for it. But I don't know that we know what that is just yet. It doesn't appear that nature made this obvious... or has it been occluded from us?

This gets me thinking back to the blood issue. Why blood? Why did the "gods" need blood in order to stay physical? I know mainstream science portrays this taboo against blood as an elaborate fabrication that protected the spread of disease from consuming blood. But I am more inclined to believe that some shenanigans went on that are accurately portrayed in our myths.

Maybe our inability to get past this issue has something to do with collective amnesia about what was really going on back then?

Also, if you happened to restate your views on eating rodents or insects I missed it! (Chances are it is in this thread somewhere at least 10 times but I have no idea where.)

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Because you're OK with killing plants to eat them but you think compassion for animals requires not killing them.

I know this isn't directed at me, but...

Having compassion for an entity requires not killing it, because then there would be no entity to have compassion towards. "Compassionately killing" is like "fear based love". The love and compassion is there, but not in its full potential, being largely blocked/distorted.

Would this apply to all entities, even down to the level of microbes?

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Things evolve to where they have a better chance for survival. The better a being survives, the better chance it has to reproduce. It passes on whatever genes allowed it to survive to the next generation. The whole point of passing on genetics is to allow for a better chance of survival to the next generation.

This is true, and why I feel like arguments made on ethical grounds just don't quite hold up. All life tries to survive on a physical level. But is that the whole story? I mean... most people recoil at the thought of their own death, but yet when the time comes the soul drops the body like a soiled undergarment. Compassionate? Well I guess that all depends on what is more real... the soul or the body.

[Diana]

Yes, this makes total sense! See... but we need to work at the level of craving. At a fundamental level, people crave meat because there is something essential that the meat provides to the body. This seems to go beyond the issue of protein, but is still kind of elusive.

Perhaps it's because we are living in bodies that evolved from the time when "fight or flight" was necessary. We still have reptilian brains (limbic), which react continually to "danger" requiring aggression and violence or flight ability. We don't need those attributes anymore--the limbic brain needs to evolve. Stress is keeping us in fight or flight now and causing hormonal imbalances because--we don't fight or run when stressed, but all the same chemicals get released.

Cravings for meat could have something to do with that: an obsolete need.

Or it could just be plain old addiction. I have struggled with trying to keep sugar out of my diet so I understand it.

---

Because you're OK with killing plants to eat them but you think compassion for animals requires not killing them.

I know this isn't directed at me, but...

Having compassion for an entity requires not killing it, because then there would be no entity to have compassion towards. "Compassionately killing" is like "fear based love". The love and compassion is there, but not in its full potential, being largely blocked/distorted.

Would this apply to all entities, even down to the level of microbes?

Intention is key. I have found that I hold or embody certain intentions, and then certain things seem to happen or not happen accordingly.

For instance, I live in a rural area. There is a lot of wildlife around. Rabbits especially are continually darting across the road. People hit them all the time, but every time I come close (and of course I drive slowly where I know they are--but they still dart out unexpectedly) I never hit them; they seem to magically make it across.

In this way, one does the best one can. I can't see microbes, so because my intention is to do no harm, I have faith that no harm will follow.

[βαθμιαίος]

Since the back-and-forth, quote/reply quote/reply thing gets tedious sometimes, I will just give some thoughts.

1) Herbivorous species like rabbits, antelope, deer, etc. need predators in order to maintain a healthy population. With many species, humans have played and continued to play the role of predator. This bothers many sensitive people, but I don't see anything inherently negative about it. In fact, I see it as positive in that humans are playing an important role in maintaining the health of those species. The situation is similar with domesticated animals. Animal-lovers don't want to see cows slaughtered, but if cows weren't slaughtered there would be no cows, or many fewer -- humans would stop keeping them, and they have died out in the wild.

2) There has been much research about the importance of nutrient-rich foods (meaning animal products, especially often-neglected items like kidneys, etc.) in an optimal diet. I'm not an expert in this area but I believe that, just as vegetarians and vegans can and do point to research that supports their diet choices, so can people who eat meat and other animal products point to research that supports theirs. One source I'm somewhat familiar with is Sally Fallon of the Weston A. Price Institute. Mostly I know about them because of their strong advocacy for fresh (raw) milk, which I'm also in favor of, because we have a Jersey cow.

3) The idea that we should consider ecosystem health and long-term sustainability in our food choices doesn't seem at all ridiculous to me. And yes, petroleum plays into that. Grass-based animal husbandry is actually one of the most sustainable and fewest-input-requiring methods of food production available to us.

4) A lot of the arguments against eating meat seem to come down to "it's obvious that it's good to eat plants but not good to eat meat." I don't really know how to respond to those arguments other than to say, "it's not obvious to me."

5) The various ideas put forward to suggest that Ra implied that we shouldn't eat meat (plant vs animal individuation, 4D diet, etc.) are also not compelling to me.

6) The idea that it's a worthy goal to try to convince meat-eaters to stop eating meat reminds me of Ra's quote about those attempting to "improve" society: "Thus those most active in attempting to remake or alter the society are those working from feelings of being correct personally or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration."

[BrownEye]

How to solve the worlds problems in 30 minutes or less

Cravings for meat could have something to do with that: an obsolete need.

Or it could just be plain old addiction.

I vote addiction. When I watch my relative die from a burger, yet they all continue their habit, I will call it an addiction. A drug addict will do the same thing. Their buddy keels over from OD, as soon as they get over the initial shock, they go back to getting high.

[Monica]

Yes, this makes total sense! See... but we need to work at the level of craving. At a fundamental level, people crave meat because there is something essential that the meat provides to the body. This seems to go beyond the issue of protein, but is still kind of elusive.

If we can fulfill that function in a different way... then I say go for it.

Yipppppeeeee!!!! (happy dance!)

Dr. Gabriel Cousens is making great progress in this area. I would love to hear what you think after listening to him talk about this! I hope these links still work...

Start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQE-YF11qU

when it finishes, #2 will pop up automatically

Here is #4, where he starts talking about problems in vegan diet:

04 - Problems of the Vegan Diet - Dr Gabriel Cousens MD - Overview of Great 04 - Problems of the Vegan Diet - Dr Gabriel Cousens MD - Overview of Great Health 04 - Problems of the Vegan Diet - Dr Gabriel Cousens MD - Overview of Great
Health Debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkXrBgSvyJ8&NR=1

05 - Common Deficiencies in Both Meat and Vegan Diets - Dr Gabriel Cousens MD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRwlgHghPGM

06 - Meat Eater Scare Tactics - Healthly Vegan Mental Health -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VkDxdufj...re=related

07 - Healthly Vegan Mental Health and Healthy Vegan Babies Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8syy2NbeAQ&NR=1
(He talks about DHA in bluegreen algae here)

08 - Acidity Alkalinity and Mental Health - Dr Gabriel Cousens MD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFsScI6ljd4&NR=1

09 - Creating the Right Diet for your Life Agenda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B04lgiuzT...re=related

10 Live Food Turns on your Anti-Aging Genes and
Turns Down your Inflammation Genes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AIwYibEs...re=related

11 - Live Food Has the Potential to Create
Super Athletes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUNiF8pIu...re=related
12 - Eating According to your Age, Seasons, Location,
and Constitution: An Ayurvedic Approach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFBu3tVi5a4

13 Holistic (Mind Body Emotions Spirit) Approach to Diet
Vs Allopatic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nbR8JJlPdc

14 - Issues with High Carb Low Fat Diet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUPa9eQSk...re=related

15 - The Enlightenment Cuisine
and Locavore Discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhJjVwctUI&NR=1

16 - Reality of Veganic Farming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEV5ckhxW...re=related

17 - The Less you Eat, the Longer you Live
Energy as Food
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Xz-vyji...re=related

18 - The Proven Dangers of the Meat Fish
Chicken and Dairy Diet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf7IINReIjk&NR=1

19 - Big Picture of the Health Debate Discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vBAoM6DkA&NR=1

20 - Evidence of Successful Live Food and
Plant Source Cultures in History
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXMOTLtrcMs

But I don't know that we know what that is just yet. It doesn't appear that nature made this obvious... or has it been occluded from us?

Maybe it's an energetic thing. We are in the transitional stage and some are adapting more easily than others. Dr. Cousens thinks that's where the superfoods come in.

I started superfoods soon after becoming a vegetarian. Also, Pickle may have a good point about clearing out the animal vibrations from the body via cleansing/fasting. I did a lot of fasting the first year I was a vegetarian. I also did a lot of sprouting and juicing.

This gets me thinking back to the blood issue. Why blood? Why did the "gods" need blood in order to stay physical? I know mainstream science portrays this taboo against blood as an elaborate fabrication that protected the spread of disease from consuming blood. But I am more inclined to believe that some shenanigans went on that are accurately portrayed in our myths.

Maybe our inability to get past this issue has something to do with collective amnesia about what was really going on back then?

I have no idea. I too have wondered what all the fuss is about blood. You know, all that bloodline stuff. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

Also, if you happened to restate your views on eating rodents or insects I missed it! (Chances are it is in this thread somewhere at least 10 times but I have no idea where.)

I'll see if I can find it.

Would this apply to all entities, even down to the level of microbes?

I don't think so, because microbes don't die when they enter our bodies. They thrive. They do however die when our immune system kills them off.

I think the question is moot, because we couldn't control that even if we wanted to. I don't think we're expected to allow a virus to invade and cause severe sickness or even death, just to avoid killing some microbes!

And we do know something about the consciousness of microbes. Ra stated that STS entities can use microbes to do their bidding. This would indicate that the microbes don't have much consciousness of their own, but will do whatever their controllers tell them to do.

Actually if I remember correctly, didn't Ra say the same about bugs? STS nasties being attracted to someone's home because of dirt and critters?

[BrownEye]

Cousens is much easier to read than listen to. My wife loves the reading, but hates listening to him.

[Monica]

1) Herbivorous species like rabbits, antelope, deer, etc. need predators in order to maintain a healthy population. With many species, humans have played and continued to play the role of predator. This bothers many sensitive people, but I don't see anything inherently negative about it. In fact, I see it as positive in that humans are playing an important role in maintaining the health of those species. The situation is similar with domesticated animals. Animal-lovers don't want to see cows slaughtered, but if cows weren't slaughtered there would be no cows, or many fewer -- humans would stop keeping them, and they have died out in the wild.

This seems to be a Darwinian evolutionary view. From a Law of One viewpoint, the game is changed.

The number of cows and chickens on the planet is grossly out of balance, because of the unnatural conditions of factory farms.

Perpetuation of the physical species is important in Darwinian evolutionary theory, but not so much from a Law of One perspective.

I would be much more concerned about what kind of 3D entities those cows who were tortured, will be someday, than I would about preserving a high number of cows. Since we know that souls reincarnate, the numbers aren't important. Quality is what's important.

In other words, I would rather see fewer cows, living a natural life, than a huge number of cows being tortured. Those few happy cows will evolve into entities who will be more likely to inhabit a peaceful 3D planet, instead of the barbaric conditions on this school for juvenile delinquents.

2) There has been much research about the importance of nutrient-rich foods (meaning animal products, especially often-neglected items like kidneys, etc.) in an optimal diet. I'm not an expert in this area but I believe that, just as vegetarians and vegans can and do point to research that supports their diet choices, so can people who eat meat and other animal products point to research that supports theirs. One source I'm somewhat familiar with is Sally Fallon of the Weston A. Price Institute. Mostly I know about them because of their strong advocacy for fresh (raw) milk, which I'm also in favor of, because we have a Jersey cow.

It's true that research can be found to support whatever one wants to believe. I think that has to do with something called free will! And likely due to the simple fact that different people are at different stages and there are multiple factors in play.

But there is no question that there is far, far, far greater amount of research supporting the health benefits of a plant-based diet, and the detrimental effects of meat and dairy products, than there is supporting the opposite premise.

I am in favor of free-range eggs and raw goat's milk, if one feels they need animal foods. I drank raw goat's milk when I was pregnant, and it was wonderful! I would give it to a child too.

I have Sally Fallon's book Nourishing Traditions and, although I like the sections on fermented foods, I find her approach to be going backwards. We are supposed to be evolving to 4D, not going back to the hunter-gatherer-caveman days. I reject the notion that we should base our current diet on what our ancestors ate. This doesn't take into consideration spiritual evolution, much less mutation of cells into 4D.

This is purely subjective, but I also noticed that her skin lacks the glow seen in raw vegans, for what it's worth.

3) The idea that we should consider ecosystem health and long-term sustainability in our food choices doesn't seem at all ridiculous to me. And yes, petroleum plays into that. Grass-based animal husbandry is actually one of the most sustainable and fewest-input-requiring methods of food production available to us.

I'm all in favor of raising cattle humanely, for their milk, provided their calves aren't deprived and only the excess milk is used.

4) A lot of the arguments against eating meat seem to come down to "it's obvious that it's good to eat plants but not good to eat meat." I don't really know how to respond to those arguments other than to say, "it's not obvious to me."

Then I invite you to listen to Dr. Gabriel Cousens, and read The China Study.

Thank you for pointing out that what is obvious to someone who has been researching diet/nutrition for 30 years, isn't obvious to someone who hasn't done that.

5) The various ideas put forward to suggest that Ra implied that we shouldn't eat meat (plant vs animal individuation, 4D diet, etc.) are also not compelling to me.

Ra didn't imply anything. Ra's words were very clear, with no ambiguity: to the extent necessary.

6) The idea that it's a worthy goal to try to convince meat-eaters to stop eating meat reminds me of Ra's quote about those attempting to "improve" society: "Thus those most active in attempting to remake or alter the society are those working from feelings of being correct personally or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration."

I think Ra was referring to those who try to change society to fit their preferences.

That's not what vegetarians are trying to do.

We're trying to end cruelty and champion the oppressed.

Very distinct difference.

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Cousens is much easier to read than listen to. My wife loves the reading, but hates listening to him.

That's interesting. I've listened to him more than I've read. I like both.

[BrownEye]

humans have played and continued to play the role of predator.

I will refer to what I had just posted. link When do we stop expansion as the "predator"?

Mostly I know about them because of their strong advocacy for fresh (raw) milk,

I might understand human breast milk, but I don't understand how there could be some need from another species.

The various ideas put forward to suggest that Ra implied that we shouldn't eat meat (plant vs animal individuation, 4D diet, etc.) are also not compelling to me.

I don't think anyone asked the question of what is "best". Then there would be the two sided answer, depending on the position of the recipient. On the one hand, find the safest that is available, (knowing that she would not give up her cravings). On the other hand "it does not matter" you have a lesson to understand.

The idea that it's a worthy goal to try to convince meat-eaters to stop eating meat reminds me of Ra's quote about those attempting to "improve" society: "Thus those most active in attempting to remake or alter the society are those working from feelings of being correct personally or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration."

To convert others is sts. Of course, if those others came into the thread willingly, that muddies the waters a bit............

In examining the polarity of a service-to-others working the free will must be seen as paramount. Those entities of which you speak are attempting to generate positive changes in consciousness while abridging free will.

[Monica]

I might understand human breast milk, but I don't understand how there could be some need from another species.

Ideally, I don't think there is. But realistically, most children aren't breastfed at all, and the ones that are, for only a few months. Those children need mother's milk, not pasteurized cow's milk. But if they aren't breastfed for at least 2 years, then they should have raw goat's milk, as a 2nd choice, or raw cow's milk as a 3rd choice, until they get their adult teeth.

Raw milk might also help fill in any perceived gaps for those who are in transition.

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To convert others is sts. Of course, if those others came into the thread willingly, that muddies the waters a bit............

:idea:

[3DMonkey]

Please realize this thread was started by someone equating plant and animal life as equal and that eating meat, to them, seems logical and natural.

So "coming into this thread" are the members who disagree with that point.

[Monica]

The OP stated that he was 'conflicted.'

Anyone coming to this thread can expect to hear both sides of the debate.

[3DMonkey]

Yes. Both sides. Open forum to explain personal perspective on a topic.

Yet, we admit that we have repeated ourselves time and time again. It has literally become a debate.

'here is "proof" plants don't feel!'

'I think meat is natural'

'eating meat in not necessary'

'I agree with the original poster that all life, plant or animal, is equally precious'

'plants don't even compare. That's ridiculous'

[Monica]

Gosh, I think there has been a richness of thought on both sides of the debate, that has been invigorating.

[BrownEye]

Now here is a strange thought for monica.

I just might care about a tree more than an animal.


But, that doesn't change the fact that leafy greens are what I will eat.

[Monica]

Now here is a strange thought for monica.

I just might care about a tree more than an animal.

I shall have to ponder that! Thinking of those majestic grandfather trees...yeah maybe

But, that doesn't change the fact that leafy greens are what I will eat.

Heh, me too!

This is really good

Part 2 Sacred Geometry, Fractal and Non-Fractal Places

[BrownEye]

This is wild. My friend (distant relation) told me tonight that she cannot have her dads ashes because the prions survive. Crazy. CDC is wanting more samples also now.

[_X7]

Prions? I'd tend to trust and rely on biodynamic composting, to transmute these, (good old composting w/ all 3 ds involved). A miniscule fraction of these prions in a large amount compost seems survivable to me. Providing that no sludge or suspicious sources of material is used in compost. My suspicion is that it is harder every year to avoid unknown contaminants, from unknown sources. Even farm manures can possibly contain all kinds of harmful residues.

Back to the garden, X7

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PS- Prions are not frivolous, according to my readings, not all all. My reflection is only to say that as individuals, we should try to create safe environments, while living according to laws of light and life.