"Thrive" is amazing must watch!

[3DMonkey]

Thanks for the bite, ZM, but I think you missed the point: you appear to judge other's efforts to help.

I only hear judgement of the help. The efforts are a given.

I could be wrong.

[zenmaster]

I only hear judgement of the help. The efforts are a given.

I could be wrong.

No, you are correct. When people become attached to an idea (due to, ironically, non-acceptance) they tend to become confused easily.

---

Here's a timely clip about the "pre-trans fallacy" where "pre-conventional" thinking is confused with "post-conventional". i.e. the "magical thinking" being appealed to in this show is much along the same lines as other hyper-intuitive nonsense such as "What the Bleep" and "The Secret".

"It is difficult to learn alone for there is a built-in handicap, at once the great virtue and the great handicap of third density. That is the rational/intuitive mind."

"In your illusion the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception. As you may see, these two types of brain structure [rational/intuitive] need to be balanced in order that the net sum of experiential catalyst will be polarization and illumination"

With these videos, we have the a gross imbalance between the intuition and rational mind. (With the rational mind being thrown away) Basically, what's being exploited are the many who happen to hold sympathy for the higher or mystical states (post-conventional) but whom confuse pre-rational (pre-conventional) states with them: http://www.praetrans.com/en/ptf.html

Pretty much sums it up:
"Many of the elevationist movements, alas, are not beyond reason but beneath it. They think they are, and they announce themselves to be, climbing the Mountain of Truth; whereas, it seems to me, they have merely slipped and fallen and are sliding rapidly down it, and the exhilarating rush of skidding uncontrollably down evolution's slope they call "following your bliss." As the earth comes rushing up at them at terminal velocity, they are bold enough to offer this collision course with ground zero as a new paradigm for the coming world transformation, and they feel oh-so-sorry for those who watch their coming crash with the same fascination as one watches a twenty-car pileup on the highway, and they sadly nod as we decline to join in that particular adventure. True spiritual bliss, in infinite measure, lies up that hill, not down it."

[Namaste]

No, you are correct. When people become attached to an idea (due to, ironically, non-acceptance) they tend to become confused easily.

Ironically, this applies to yourself :¬)

I do accept the validity of anyone's opinion, including yours, and am merely reflecting back to you your inclination to do otherwise, and judge the actions of another.

Here's a timely clip about the "pre-trans fallacy" where "pre-conventional" thinking is confused with "post-conventional". i.e. the "magical thinking" being appealed to in this show is much along the same lines as other hyper-intuitive nonsense such as "What the Bleep" and "The Secret".

"It is difficult to learn alone for there is a built-in handicap, at once the great virtue and the great handicap of third density. That is the rational/intuitive mind."

"In your illusion the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception. As you may see, these two types of brain structure [rational/intuitive] need to be balanced in order that the net sum of experiential catalyst will be polarization and illumination"

With these videos, we have the a gross imbalance between the intuition and rational mind. (With the rational mind being thrown away) Basically, what's being exploited are the many who happen to hold sympathy for the higher or mystical states (post-conventional) but whom confuse pre-rational (pre-conventional) states with them: http://www.praetrans.com/en/ptf.html

Pretty much sums it up:
"Many of the elevationist movements, alas, are not beyond reason but beneath it. They think they are, and they announce themselves to be, climbing the Mountain of Truth; whereas, it seems to me, they have merely slipped and fallen and are sliding rapidly down it, and the exhilarating rush of skidding uncontrollably down evolution's slope they call "following your bliss." As the earth comes rushing up at them at terminal velocity, they are bold enough to offer this collision course with ground zero as a new paradigm for the coming world transformation, and they feel oh-so-sorry for those who watch their coming crash with the same fascination as one watches a twenty-car pileup on the highway, and they sadly nod as we decline to join in that particular adventure. True spiritual bliss, in infinite measure, lies up that hill, not down it."

I think you're confusing discernment (an intellectual process) with true intuition (a knowing).

The above quotes, and the video you presented, like all, are observations from a specific point of view, with specific experience, distortions and biases. You resonate with them and they meet your criteria of what is correct. They pass your discernment filter which is based upon your own experience and state of being.

But, for those who have experienced concepts which are labeled pre-conventional, they are not that, at all. They are just as real any any 'proven' concept, current, post or otherwise.

I hold a Masters degree in Advanced Computer Science, and very much value rational thought, discernment and logical thinking. I am also a very intuitive person, and have learned to follow my heart. I very much value guidance from levels of intelligence I may not be consciously aware of.

One of my closets friends has a PhD in Quantum Physics. He is incredibly intelligent, and also values both the logical and intuitive aspects of consciousness. It's called balancing the hemispheres, integrating the sacred male and female aspects of consciousness.

Both of us, at the same time, were starting to learn to trust our higher guidance in favour of planning our futures with rational and logical thought. We let go of control.

We did this as we both had dreams of running our own businesses, both based upon creative work (photography for myself, music production for my friend). We listened to hours of Abraham and Bashar, especially regarding the Law of Attraction.

We followed their advice, and within one year, we were both working professionally in our dream jobs. We planned nothing, we attempted to control nothing. We merely put into practice the simple, yet exceedingly powerful teachings from both channeled entities.

This 'nonsense', as you call it, has proved far more beneficial than anything logical we attempted beforehand.

I will not expect you to understand or accept this at a deep level as you have not experienced it for yourself. You can offer intellectual judgement, but you will never know until you experience it yourself.

This is why I'm repeatedly saying on this forum, wisdom through experience is far more valuable than intellectual understanding. You know from your own experience, rather than believing in the words of another. That truth remains eternal, regardless of any levels of intellectual understanding one applies to it in order to understand it, or how much another attempts to ridicule or deny it's validity/usefulness.

[3DMonkey]

No, you are correct. When people become attached to an idea (due to, ironically, non-acceptance) they tend to become confused easily.

Ironically, this applies to yourself :¬)

I do accept the validity of anyone's opinion, including yours, and am merely reflecting back to you your inclination to do otherwise, and judge the actions of another.

Here's a timely clip about the "pre-trans fallacy" where "pre-conventional" thinking is confused with "post-conventional". i.e. the "magical thinking" being appealed to in this show is much along the same lines as other hyper-intuitive nonsense such as "What the Bleep" and "The Secret".

"It is difficult to learn alone for there is a built-in handicap, at once the great virtue and the great handicap of third density. That is the rational/intuitive mind."

"In your illusion the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception. As you may see, these two types of brain structure [rational/intuitive] need to be balanced in order that the net sum of experiential catalyst will be polarization and illumination"

With these videos, we have the a gross imbalance between the intuition and rational mind. (With the rational mind being thrown away) Basically, what's being exploited are the many who happen to hold sympathy for the higher or mystical states (post-conventional) but whom confuse pre-rational (pre-conventional) states with them: http://www.praetrans.com/en/ptf.html

Pretty much sums it up:
"Many of the elevationist movements, alas, are not beyond reason but beneath it. They think they are, and they announce themselves to be, climbing the Mountain of Truth; whereas, it seems to me, they have merely slipped and fallen and are sliding rapidly down it, and the exhilarating rush of skidding uncontrollably down evolution's slope they call "following your bliss." As the earth comes rushing up at them at terminal velocity, they are bold enough to offer this collision course with ground zero as a new paradigm for the coming world transformation, and they feel oh-so-sorry for those who watch their coming crash with the same fascination as one watches a twenty-car pileup on the highway, and they sadly nod as we decline to join in that particular adventure. True spiritual bliss, in infinite measure, lies up that hill, not down it."

I think you're confusing discernment (an intellectual process) with true intuition (a knowing).

The above quotes, and the video you presented, like all, are observations from a specific point of view, with specific experience, distortions and biases. You resonate with them and they meet your criteria of what is correct. They pass your discernment filter which is based upon your own experience and state of being.

But, for those who have experienced concepts which are labeled pre-conventional, they are not that, at all. They are just as real any any 'proven' concept, current, post or otherwise.

I hold a Masters degree in Advanced Computer Science, and very much value rational thought, discernment and logical thinking. I am also a very intuitive person, and have learned to follow my heart. I very much value guidance from levels of intelligence I may not be consciously aware of.

One of my closets friends has a PhD in Quantum Physics. He is incredibly intelligent, and also values both the logical and intuitive aspects of consciousness. It's called balancing the hemispheres, integrating the sacred male and female aspects of consciousness.

Both of us, at the same time, were starting to learn to trust our higher guidance in favour of planning our futures with rational and logical thought. We let go of control.

We did this as we both had dreams of running our own businesses, both based upon creative work (photography for myself, music production for my friend). We listened to hours of Abraham and Bashar, especially regarding the Law of Attraction.

We followed their advice, and within one year, we were both working professionally in our dream jobs. We planned nothing, we attempted to control nothing. We merely put into practice the simple, yet exceedingly powerful teachings from both channeled entities.

This 'nonsense', as you call it, has proved far more beneficial than anything logical we attempted beforehand.

I will not expect you to understand or accept this at a deep level as you have not experienced it for yourself. You can offer intellectual judgement, but you will never know until you experience it yourself.

This is why I'm repeatedly saying on this forum, wisdom through experience is far more valuable than intellectual understanding. You know from your own experience, rather than believing in the words of another. That truth remains eternal, regardless of any levels of intellectual understanding one applies to it in order to understand it, or how much another attempts to ridicule or deny it's validity/usefulness.

I agree with everything you've said here. I also agree with everything that zenmaster has said. I don't see how what you are saying applies to what he is doing.

[Namaste]

3DM - we have different ideas about what is useful in terms of helping others, and one's judgement (or acceptance) of said offerings :¬)

[3DMonkey]

Hehehe. I guess that means I would say 'I don't think you're going to get very far with that, but go ahead and try.'

Oh. I did say that.

[AnthroHeart]

Some people are entirely optimistic. I am one of them :¬)

But you know what? Distortions and all, they are passionate about making positive changes in this world and helping others, and most do so from a place of love.

Agreed. So do you ever get freaky imagery in your mind? Do you simply see this as metaphor for something within you to address? How do you approach it without fear?

[native]

I think we all understand the point you and others are trying to make Namaste. We all acknowledge that the information we searched through during our seeking process was 'ok'. As in, there aren't any mistakes. No one is devaluing any one experience philosophically speaking.

We're talking about being practical here though. Improvement, evolving..honestly examining existing attitudes that need to grow. To create change requires adding wisdom to the process. What's attempting to be discussed is how do we provide the best framework so that others have an honest base to work from.

As seekers who have already gone through the process, we're able to look around and realize what is lacking and misleading. Wanting to acknowledge that which is misleading, and emphasizing that it needs to change is not judgment, that is honest 'love'. Just because certain information (distortion) exists, and it might possibly be helpful, doesn't mean that wanting to remove that distortion is judgment or non-acceptance.

The seeking process is often long and arduous because there is a lot of nonsense to wade through. It doesn't have to be that way. People may explore metaphysical ideas, agendas, new-age concepts..the mysterious is naturally tempting. The current paradigm seems to be that we must naturally drag everyone into all the vagaries (hitchiking). But when you speak with the average person, it's not necessary. I'm not saying that one should ignore the fringe, but we tend to get carried away with it. I feel that in "truth" movement, which is starting to encompass all subjects, it involves entirely too much distracting conversation, and they lack deep conversations about the self. What is being emphasized is that we can shift the paradigm to focus on the core truths (social conditions) that the general person (no matter their beliefs) can confront immediately. We're in a position now where we can begin removing that which is unnecessary, so we can present others with a more distilled framework of wisdom that accelerates their evolution. And by removing that which is unnecessary, I don't mean saying "Don't bother looking under that rock"..they can explore the other topics if they'd like. What we need to do is shift the conversation to that which is ultimately important - inner-change. That is what the seeking process truly involves.

I think because we're wanderers and that involved seeking the metaphysical answers, we confuse the seeking process with delving into all sorts of strange areas. To seek is to discover your relationship to the other, and that's it. For the third density person that needs to make the choice, it isn't a detailed metaphysical journey.

Victim-consciousness, even in the truth movement (which basically intermingles with the new-age movement), is prevalent and that needs to change. It motivates people through the context of resisting enslavement, rather than acknowledging our personal contribution to the conditions that have been created. That's a separative mindset. We can both inspire appropriately, while also focusing on the core truths.

I think the main point to address here, is that everyone understands the world is failing, the system is rigged, and that we need a change. I don't think that is a secret..there are all kinds of social movements that have existed for decades. In this context, the video is nothing new. Does that make sense? It illuminates the network of manipulation as a basis for motivation, and that's it. As has been said, there are a lot of powerful ideas lumped together, and I don't think we can truly comprehend how it can possibly stir people into an emotional frenzy as they come away viewing the problem as an entirely external issue. I know people who have been awake to the outer manipulation for many years, but haven't yet made the choice because they believe the solution involves fixing everything outside of themselves. It's not until one realizes that they are ultimately the solution, and in having that inner-confrontation, that the spirit truly transforms, abandons the self, and moves towards the other. This is what the conversation needs to focus on.

So what's trying to be accomplished is the idea of bringing self-responsibility into the forefront of our consciousness. Making any sense?

[AnthroHeart]

Icaro, it is pretty simple isn't it once you discover the typical roadblocks, like taking things too seriously, and the irony of the Universe. It's all a process of finding ourselves. Individuation as Zen calls it.

[native]

Yes, but I think we can create a more cohesive environment.

[BlatzAdict]

original link is dead.. a friend found another copy of the movie online here

http://vimeo.com/32403506

[Tenet Nosce]

Yes, I follow the "fringe". I do not buy into the tenuous innuendo, however.

When you do this, you are essentially naming others to be liars.

Got to love the stretch employed. I think that's a significant part of the whole problem actually. The victim mindset truly lives on.

Calling BS, refusing to offer any counter-evidence or arguments, and willfully and repeatedly ignoring the portions of posts which challenge your own, IS the problem.

As regards fallacious thinking, many of your posts represent what is called argumentum ad logicam, or the fallacist's fallacy.

Once again, I offered a list of criticisms which you have failed to acknowledge. This was now about 100 posts ago.

In particular:

3. Promotes victim mentality. Yes... so humanity was manipulated by the ruling elite... but who is really responsible? The manipulators or the manipulated? The answer is both. But there is little talk of how humanity asked for cheap food, and then looked the other way as to how it was being produced. Or how Americans demanded cheap loans, and then took them even if they knew that couldn't pay them back.

---

Despite that there are a few people present in this thread who appear to be interested in having a rational discussion about the relative merits and drawbacks of this movie, I have found it too difficult to maintain such a conversation in the midst of all the banter offered by those who appear to have no such inclinations.

Thus, I will bid this thread adieu. Cheers!

[zenmaster]

In particular:

3. Promotes victim mentality. Yes... so humanity was manipulated by the ruling elite... but who is really responsible? The manipulators or the manipulated? The answer is both. But there is little talk of how humanity asked for cheap food, and then looked the other way as to how it was being produced. Or how Americans demanded cheap loans, and then took them even if they knew that couldn't pay them back.

I thought that was clearly rhetorical, to be honest.

[BrownEye]

I got a little ways before it put me to sleep. I will have to try again.

Although, from what I saw it does show enough to cause some to come out of their slumber.

To criticize for not handing us solutions does not seem valid. I would think that change is up to us, along with the creation and follow through of the solution.

[zenmaster]

It's typical of new-age videos. They throw out vague ideas and numinous symbolism and let the viewer's mind fill in the blanks to make it seem more compelling or substantiated. The "UFO" clips included the already identified ice crystals and the Brazilian balloon, but they care not if it serves to further their agenda. To sum it up - the "hook":

We are simply mistaken,
we've been blinded to our brilliance
shorn of our strengths
ignorant of our genius
unaware of our true power and magnificance

but all that is about to change....

Why? Because, the results of his life search was that he found a possible pattern with a possible connection to free energy generation [a "transcendent principle" which connects one to their higher nature]. The possibilities are endless. Think of the possibilities from the perspective of the torus patten. Queue annoying music. The torus shape is also the uroboros, the economy, galaxy, the earth, a person, etc. Queue more annoying music. Have seemingly authoritative guests, some of which have had vague experiences, testify to the power of the torus patten. Queue more annoying music. etc.

[_X7]

zenmaster,

My reads of this thread were hasty and my viewing of the full version was likewise limited. Ignoring all the plastic-holywood stylizing, my interest centered upon the applicability of catalyst for the middle and upper middle classes. Let's recall that masses of these people might themselves frame themselves within corporate-materialist-styled frameworks. The film covers a useful combination of subjects in that one can initially assume it is a true industrial heir who presents the combined subjects along with the whistle blowing. This level of whistle blowing is extremely repulsive, due to a huge dependency on pensions, of said classes. Yet, because it is a captain of industry and his wife who present the subject matter, this element alone may help the pensioner to relax sufficiently. So as to broaden the rational, for analyzing larger issues. Just one small step perhaps, if a step was taken, finally, by pensioners and their dependents. If taken at all, then well done! Let the research claims be heard, let the varied rationales proceed. Let some "new perceptions" be validated by a captain of industry. I noticed a few blinder-nudges, (far from the new age stereotypes), nudged at least a little bit.

[zenmaster]

Let the research claims be heard

What research would that be? How do these ideas remove distortions? How do they advance knowledge? Merely by saying "people are waking up"does not elevate people, as if by idea association. Viable research tends to involve some kind of discipline, a methodical approach, and some kind of application other than hand waving and finger pointing.

It's kind of simple. You start with something intuitively resonating, and then you see what you can actually do with it, then you share the results. The "what if" stage is only the initial stage, where the question itself is still being defined. You don't remain in that nebulous realm of imagination and infer a symbolic "solution" and expect a new world to emerge from it. You kinda have to do some work, otherwise it's the planting of sterile seeds into the fertile imagination. "If only someone else could make my dream work". Or, someone has already made it work but it was lost in ancient times, or it was suppressed and we must remain in darkness not knowing our true nature, as a consequence.

[_X7]

I focussed on the catalytic potentials... As in the old saying:

"It's not what you know, but rather who you know."

Finally one of the captain class proclaims merit in doing alternative research.

Implying it is fair play and hereby permitted.

Yet indeed, many of us felt complete already, nothing new there, didn't need permission, standing in our own sovereignty.

[Namaste]

There's more to it than that ZM. Inspiration comes in many forms.

Someone could watch that video and then dedicate their lives to the development of free energy, and hence change the world (long term). There are countless stories of inventors, in all industries, who were given inspiration by what you would call 'new age nonsense'. Dr. Joe Dispenza is one of them, and he has gone on to help many, many people.

An apt quote.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Why? Because it's the foundation of all proven technology and inventions. It has to start as an idea. Invalidating the sharing of that part of the developmental process is a rather limiting mindset, in my opinion, as it can in turn start a chain reaction of inspiration and development.

One only has to look back at their lives and note the seemingly random path of synchronicities that lead them to where they are today. For many on this forum, myself included, I would imagine movies/documentaries such as this aided that process of discovery in some way or another :¬)

[Oceania]

Trhive got my mom to understand the source field David writes about. she called it the donut whole and i was able to explain about it what i had read.

[BrownEye]

Trhive got my mom to understand the source field David writes about. she called it the donut whole and i was able to explain about it what i had read.

It is a 3 dimensional "visual" representation of polarity.

I wonder. If each of our organs have this same field on their own, as smaller portions of the whole of ourself, are the actions of humans on the planet acting as planetary blockages?

[zenmaster]

Invalidating the sharing of that part of the developmental process is rather limiting mindset, in my opinion, as it can in turn start a chain reaction of inspiration and development.

I know you think you understand my position, but you really don't. I understand inspiration and the general motivational power of positive thinking. I've constantly been stating that everything starts with intuitive perception.

However, when actual science or history is 'hijacked', or things are overextended beyond what they are capable of supporting, for the purpose of influence under the guise of 'anything is possible if I like the idea' - that's simply at best 'entertainment'. I personally think it's wrong because you are actually claiming something which is currently untrue, more for the purpose of convincing than inspiring. I guess it's a subtlety that many people miss - the possibility is not phrased as a question, but framed as an established fact. A mere 'what if' is grossly distorted to 'this is the case, here is the situation, if only we were not denied more knowledge of *this fabricated* paradigm which we are depicting'. If you throw away rationality to support possibility, you are swimming in the pre-conventional, instinctual realm of numinosity which is quite unconscious and impotent for the purpose of transformation.

[Oceania]

Pickle, that poses a good question.

[Namaste]

I personally think it's wrong because you are actually claiming something which is currently untrue, more for the purpose of convincing than inspiring.

This video aside (unlimited energy is already a reality; the torus has been measured on many 'fractal' levels; there are negative powers that have a great influence over the vast population of this planet), I agree. The term charlatan springs to mind, and there are many out there on the new age circuit acting only for personal gain.

'Currently untrue' is wholly subjective, based on one's own experience. One cannot point at technology, and even 'current' ideas and pronounce it to be true or untrue, as doing so implies one is an authority of knowledge/wisdom; omniscient. Much could already exist and yet not be seen by the majority of the population.

[Oceania]

currently true? what does that mean? either it's true or not. it's been made with good intentions and is as far as i know, true.

[zenmaster]

'Currently untrue' is wholly subjective, based on one's own experience. One cannot point at technology, and even 'current' ideas and pronounce it to be true or untrue, as doing so implies one is an authority of knowledge/wisdom; omniscient. Much could already exist and yet not be seen by the majority of the population.

I don't think you're talking about the same thing I am. The circle, the toroid, the spiral, phi, pi, fibonacci sequence, golden mean, tetrahedrons, pyramids, etc. being held up as the 'solution to our energy problems', with no cogent research work, is BS - plain and simple. A possibility is just that, a possibility, not a solution - not something withheld, not something that is the key to "true power and magnificance", it's not something which, being absent or being withheld somehow has "blinded us to our brilliance". Why frame it that way? To make what follows more compelling. And what follows is "dressed" with music, animations, testimonies, and other ultimately hollow contexts which are all connected, through innuendo and free-association, to disparate themes of transcendence which serve as examples of the power of the idea. Through such association, the libido is stirred and, imaginatively, we "think" there is more to it (i.e. practicality) than there actually is.

On another note, as part of their collection of transcendence themes, they showed an ice crystal orbiting with the space shuttle or a balloon, as examples of historical UFO encounters. Do you simply "forgive" that as artistic license, or do you say "well, sure but they're 'on a roll', it's fine if the net sum is that they 'mean well'", or do you say that's the means justifying the ends and therefore wrong? Look, when someone resorts to that type of persuasion, they have a negatively distorted agenda - in the sense of promoting misdirection and confusion. I personally don't think they know any better, so it's pretty much relegated to "entertainment" for the a fantasy-starved intuition.

Yes, the toroid is one of the well-known, fundamental patterns we find in the natural world. But if you suggest that it's the key to free energy, that a "vision" has impressed such an idea, then OK, now back it up. Otherwise, what ground-work or even insight is being offered/revealed for anyone to make use of?

[SomaticDreams]

'Currently untrue' is wholly subjective, based on one's own experience. One cannot point at technology, and even 'current' ideas and pronounce it to be true or untrue, as doing so implies one is an authority of knowledge/wisdom; omniscient. Much could already exist and yet not be seen by the majority of the population.

I don't think you're talking about the same thing I am. The circle, the toroid, the spiral, phi, pi, fibonacci sequence, golden mean, tetrahedrons, pyramids, etc. being held up as the 'solution to our energy problems', with no cogent research work, is BS - plain and simple. A possibility is just that, a possibility, not a solution - not something withheld, not something that is the key to "true power and magnificance", it's not something which, being absent or being withheld somehow has "blinded us to our brilliance". Why frame it that way? To make what follows more compelling. And what follows is "dressed" with music, animations, testimonies, and other ultimately hollow contexts which are all connected, through innuendo and free-association, to disparate themes of transcendence which serve as examples of the power of the idea. Through such association, the libido is stirred and, imaginatively, we "think" there is more to it (i.e. practicality) than there actually is.

On another note, as part of their collection of transcendence themes, they showed an ice crystal orbiting with the space shuttle or a balloon, as examples of historical UFO encounters. Do you simply "forgive" that as artistic license, or do you say "well, sure but they're 'on a roll', it's fine if the net sum is that they 'mean well'", or do you say that's the means justifying the ends and therefore wrong? Look, when someone resorts to that type of persuasion, they have a negatively distorted agenda - in the sense of promoting misdirection and confusion. I personally don't think they know any better, so it's pretty much relegated to "entertainment" for the a fantasy-starved intuition.

Yes, the toroid is one of the well-known, fundamental patterns we find in the natural world. But if you suggest that it's the key to free energy, that a "vision" has impressed such an idea, then OK, now back it up. Otherwise, what ground-work or even insight is being offered/revealed for anyone to make use of?

I've watched the film, but had to end at the orgiastic ending of an "Ideal World". It was too much, but I certainly gave the film a chance.

I would add more to this conversation, but I essentially agree with ZenMaster here. There is nothing here.

I understand the argument that this will be inspirational to those in the 'middle class' (which, by the way, is a useless term when most people identify with this term). This could be inspirational to anyone unaware, or unexposed to such information, yes I agree with that sentiment.

The way in which it presents the materials however, is not inspirational to me, nor do I think many people who watch this would come out of the movie theater and think "Gee, I think I will devote my life to revealing the truth about free energy". It's a false dichotomy to say either would happen (doing nothing, or being inspired towards finding the truth/reforming government/free energy); but at the same point the language being used here is highly unconventional and a lot of the sources, easily refuted (he references David Icke's work, and Art Bell). To say the least, a lot of the evidence is shaky, or tenuous at best. There are some legitimate sources that have corroboration (the one's I cared to cross-reference and check on). Overall, people will be cynical or call it new age crap. I haven't done a scientific study, but of the people that my friend has enthusiastically shown this film to, they have all replied in this manner. I don't conceive that most people would take well to this. People are concerned about more pragmatic things...and so that is how it is. They will still receive the catalyst they need commensurate to their consciousness. This information is no more important than any other information, in any format.

I think this movie is not worth sharing. I think having a heart to heart with your friend(s) about your ideas together touches the "truth" more than this film ever could. There is engagement, critical thinking and most of all, a sense of passion and respect for each other that will allow you to be insightful. Illuminating yourself occurs through catalyst, especially social interactions. These are perspectives that you must find love in (i.e. the fact that all perspectives are searching for the 'good', that is, what will bring rewards and less costs, however each are defined is the departure point).

I encourage you all, instead of watching this movie, to engage in healthy debate with your good friends, yourself and anyone else who wishes to engage such conversation. You will learn much more.

[zenmaster]

Inducing a sense of wonderment through intuitive resonance with certain archetypes...

The key to any type of development here is an active balance between rational and intuitive mind. The intuition must be met with and evaluated by the rational (thinking and/or feeling) mind to form any kind of experience. Although no true understanding results, nevertheless, this is the discernment attempt which Ra said was "a very good effort to make". This experience may then be shared for the purpose of teach/learning. Keeping ideas purely at the level of the intuition/unconscious is always a hand-waving and a finger pointing at unrelated, undigested contents of the mind. Yes, even those intuitive notions that seem to come from a place of "knowing".

[SomaticDreams]

Inducing a sense of wonderment through intuitive resonance with certain archetypes...

The key to any type of development here is an active balance between rational and intuitive mind. The intuition must be met with and evaluated by the rational (thinking and/or feeling) mind to form any kind of experience. Although no true understanding results, nevertheless, this is the discernment attempt which Ra said was "a very good effort to make". This experience may then be shared for the purpose of teach/learning. Keeping ideas purely at the level of the intuition/unconscious is always a hand-waving and a finger pointing at unrelated, undigested contents of the mind. Yes, even those intuitive notions that seem to come from a place of "knowing".

Have you ever read any studies on Gestalt Psychology or read any work by Michael Polayani, Zenmaster?

[_X7]

Ah, this film generates a little discussion. I agree, it is not a discussion for everyone, possibly 5% maximum. Considering that the majority of people have full rights to shun intellectual conversation. Indeed, the majority love to flow in love, as 'truth' (enough) for them. Authoritarians assert their 'truths' separately.

I sought to study and discuss challenging subject matter my whole life long. I found people maintain comfort zones for discussion. Usually the prerequisites for discussion demanded an interface with familiar and particular contexts. Occasionally a bit of culture or fiction or fancy might liven discussion and expand comfort zones.

My own point about catalyst was based upon this expected pattern. Set the stage with huge generalities, lights, action, scenery, enthusiastic proponents, key-word-concepts, smily host, etc.... Ancestral heritage especially relieves the class-conscious tensions. I have felt these tension-complexs of society. I feel the mass-integration covering all these talking points does provide openers for more serious discussion. I have worked and lived closely with all classes (disposable income levels) which provides catalytic perspectives not seen in average lifetimes. Piles of distortions which seep into confusions of agendas. Like pouring from the empty into the void.

A neat starting point for the technology issues is the story and works of Nikola Tesla. Whose work underlies everything from electricity to radio to robotics to communications. Fast forward for now to his golden years where he was utterly suppressed under some sort of top-secret gag order. All because of his vision concerning some sort of free energy. Just what that means has itself become giga-distorted beyond immediate grasp. Our little movie simply relates the conflagrations of societal progress, with interwoven highlights or ideals. As openers for discussion of any subset or tangent. Granted, we get just snippets to follow deeper, where there is a will. Or, to avoid it like the plague, for fear of suppression, as masters too often dispel entitlement.

To thrive or not to thrive, this is a question. Certain comfort-zone-agendas thrive on elitist privilege. Some will immerse in fashion styles. Other comfort-zone-agendas go egalitarian. What ever one's chosen catalyst, let us proceed in love and light.