In regards to eating meat

[Oceania]

ok well they went straight to showing pictures of stuff i dun wanna see. Monica you shoulda warned me. i'm really sensitive to that. even hearing about stuff like that can make me depressed for weeks. all animals are my friends, it's like seeing your best friend in such conditions. but worse cuz it's animals. but i hope it works.

[Monica]

ok well they went straight to showing pictures of stuff i dun wanna see. Monica you shoulda warned me. i'm really sensitive to that. even hearing about stuff like that can make me depressed for weeks. all animals are my friends, it's like seeing your best friend in such conditions. but worse cuz it's animals. but i hope it works.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry Oceania! This video is sooooooooo mild compared to most! It actually shows very very little of anything graphic! Most of it is about the campaign of comparing animals we love (like puppies and kittens) with animals that are eaten. Then it has a lot of interviews with people, showing their reaction to the campaign.

The whole point of the video is that they're using a different approach - appealing to people's natural love of animals - instead of showing the graphic violence in the meat industry.

---

I just rewatched it, trying to see what I missed that disturbed you. The whole video is 6 minutes 27 seconds. There is nothing graphic (except for some tiny pictures at the bottom of the poster in the subway that are barely noticeable and the entire subway shot flashes for a second) until 46 seconds into it...then there is a graphic pic for literally 4 seconds.

Then no more of anything graphic until 1:32 and it lasts 24 seconds.

So out of 6 minutes 27 seconds, there is 28 seconds of graphic footage.

Sorry to cause you pain, Oceania! I invite you to watch it, skipping 44-49 and 1:32 to 1:57. I think you'll appreciate the overall approach they're using here.

Or, maybe it's better that you not watch it. You don't need to anyway.

[Oceania]

but they do show the graphic violence. it was the one picture that got to me. i just can't see stuff like that. i hate when they show stuff without warning, not realizing not everyone takes it well. i know you didn't mean to.

[Monica]

but they do show the graphic violence. it was the one picture that got to me. i just can't see stuff like that. i hate when they show stuff without warning, not realizing not everyone takes it well. i know you didn't mean to.

Someone like you, who already has such compassion for animals, doesn't need to see that stuff.

It is for those who aren't aware, that they show it. And they must show it. Atrocities must be exposed, in order to do anything about it.

Once again, I'm sorry for my error in judgment. I didn't realize just how sensitive you were. This video has far less graphic footage and I didn't realize that the small amount would bother you.

Now that I know, I'll be more sensitive in the future when discussing this subject with you.

I hope that everyone else will still watch the video, though. It really is well done, with only 28 seconds of graphic footage, out of 6 minutes 27 seconds. It is those other 6 minutes that is the point of why I posted it. I'm very encouraged!

[fr33d0m]

i can't watch any videos from PETA. can you gimme a summary?

My summary is this: don't watch any of their videos. Essentially, this being a free will universe, take the most loving acts you can imagine are possible. There are other aspects of ourselves committing the exact opposite and complete antithesis of those acts. Your imagination can take care of the rest.

I remember when I was a kid, middle school, everyone was standing outside in the school yard before class started. I noticed a small circle of boys shouting and stomping around on something so I went to investigate. There was a small grass snake they were attempting to kill in their ignorant fear. Many of the boys were bigger than I and I am usually the loner quiet type, but something snapped inside me and I shoved all of them out of the way and rescued that snake's life. I gave them a few words about their ignorance and heartlessness, too.

You are not alone in caring for animals.

[Namaste]

I am getting the feeling that animals are your friends.

Friends don't eat friends. End of story.

That pretty much sums it up!

---

Wow oh WOW! Everyone please watch this! It's so amazing! A totally different approach and it's working!

Why love one but eat the other?

Well said, freedom.

Monica, thanks, great video.

Reminds me of this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Dogs-Pigs-W...1573244619

[fr33d0m]

Wow oh WOW! Everyone please watch this! It's so amazing! A totally different approach and it's working!

Why love one but eat the other?

Thank you for sharing the video. Disturbing and painful to watch, yes. Eye-opening and educational, yes. It definitely has caused me to seriously consider going vegan.

[Namaste]

"Friends don't eat friends", by the way, could easily be the slogan for such a campaign. It's so concise, yet it illustrates the point perfectly.

I will use it in conversation from this point when asked about my dietary habits :¬)

[BrownEye]

This happens to match my understanding of discipline. It also happens that, if you want to "change", you will find a way. If you do not want to change, you will find all the excuses you need.

I found this while researching another subject. This other subject should be found in ancient texts I assume, but not brought out in the light.

Reference has already been made to the automatism of the body, to the fact that it is a creature of habit, and I said that use could be made of this peculiarity. If the Theosophist says to some aspirant who would fain practise Yoga and win entrance to higher planes being: "You must then begin at once to purify the body, and this must precede the attempt to practise a Yoga worthy of the name; for real Yoga is as dangerous to an impure and undisciplined body as a match to a cask of gunpowder"; if the Theosophist should thus speak, he would very probably be met with the answer that health would suffer if such a course were to be adopted. As a dry matter of fact the body does very much care in the long run what you give it, provided that you give it something that will keep it in health; and it will accommodate itself in a short time to a form of pure and nutritious food that you choose to adopt. Just because it is an automatic creature, it will soon stop asking for things that are steadily withheld from it, and if you disregard its demands for the coarse and ranker kinds of food it will soon get into the habit of disliking them. Just as even a moderately natural palate will shrink with a sickening feeling of disgust from [21] the decaying game and venison if yclept* [* Archaic English, meaning ‘called’ or ‘named’.] "high", so a pure taste will revolt against all coarse foods. Suppose that a man has been feeding his body with various kinds of unclean things, his body will demand them imperiously, and he will be inclined to yield to it; but if he pays no attention to it, and goes his own way and not the way of the body, he will find, perhaps to his surprise, that his body will soon recognize its master and will accommodate itself to his orders; presently it will begin to prefer the things that he gives it, and will set up a liking for clean foods and a distaste for unclean. Habit can be used for help as well as for hindrance, and the body yields when it understands that you are the master and that you do not intend the purpose of your life to be interfered with by the mere instrument that is yours for use. The truth is that it is not the body which is chiefly in fault, but Kama, the desire-nature. The adult body has got into the habit of demanding particular things, but if you notice a child, you will find that the child's body does not spontaneously make demands for the things on which adult bodies feast with coarse pleasure; the child's body, unless it has a very bad physical heredity, shrinks from meat and wine, but its elders force meat on it, and the father and mother give it sips of wine from their glasses at dessert, and bid it "be a little man," till the child by its own imitative faculty and by the compulsion of others is turned into [22] evil ways. Then, of course, impure tastes are made, and perhaps old kamic cravings are awakened which might have been starved out, and the body will gradually form the habit of demanding the things upon which it has been fed. Despite all this in the past, make the change, and as you get rid of the particles that crave these impurities you will feel your body altering its habits and revolting against the very smell of the things that it used to enjoy. The real difficulty in the way of the reformation lies in Kāma, not in the body. You do not want to do it; if you did, you would do it. You say to yourself: "After all, perhaps it does not matter so much; I have no psychic faculties, I am not advanced enough for this to make any difference." You will never become advanced if you do not endeavour to live up to the highest that is within your reach - if you allow the desire-nature to interfere with your progress. You say, "How much I should like to possess astral vision, to travel in the astral body! "but when it comes to the point you prefer a "good" dinner. If the prize for giving up unclean food were a million pounds at the end of a year, how rapidly would difficulties disappear and ways be found for keeping the body alive without meat and wine! But when only the priceless treasures of the higher life are offered, the difficulties are insuperable. If men really desired what they pretend to desire, we should have much more rapid changes around us [23] than we now see. But they make believe, and make believe so effectually that they deceive themselves into the idea that they are in earnest, and they come back life after life to live in the same unprogressive manner for thousands of years; and then in some particular life they wonder why they do not advance, and why somebody else has male such rapid progress in this one life while they make none. The man who is in earnest - not spasmodically but with steady persistence - can make what progress he chooses; while the man who is making believe will run round and round the mill-path for many a life to come.

Here, at any rate, in this purification of the body lies the preparation for all Yoga practice - not the whole preparation most certainly, but an essential part of it. This much must suffice as to the dense body, the lowest vehicle of consciousness.

Man and His Bodies
by

Annie Besant
( Theosophical Manual No. VII )
1896

[Diana]

Excellent quote Pickle. Wonderful food (ha-no pun intended) for thought.

[BrownEye]

Man this is a whole new area of research for me. The thought placed into my head while I was dwelling on a different subject was "astral beings are attracted to dead flesh". Now that I am looking, it takes me into a whole new realm of research and understanding.

one can actually see that the forms attracted by meat are repellent. These lovers of decomposition even accompany to the mouth itself the dish fancied by them. Also, before photographing auras one can gain experience by taking pictures of objects with their surroundings. As always, the experiment requires patience and perseverance. It should begin with indicative objects. Of the pure aromas, one must prefer the rose; it contains a very lasting oil. But it should not be forgotten that flowers should be gathered before decomposition has set in. I point out roses because they contain the greatest quantity of fiery energy. Thus, lovers of roses are near to fiery energy. The entities that feed on decomposition avoid the aromas of fiery energy. One must accept this indication in all simplicity, and just as information from a pharmacy.

Fiery World I, 227.

[BrownEye]

Now, the vast majority of mankind know little and care less for these facts, and yet on them hinges the possibility of the purification of the dense body, thus rendering it a fitter vehicle for the indwelling man The ordinary person lets his body build itself up anyhow out of the materials supplied to it, without regard to their nature, caring only that they shall be palatable and agreeable to his desires, and not whether they be suitable or unsuitable to the making of a pure and noble dwelling for the Self, the true man that liveth for ever more. He exercises no supervision over these particle as they come and go, selecting none, rejecting none, but letting everything build itself in as it lists, like a careless mason who should catch up any rubbish as materials for his house, floating wool and hairs, mud, chips, sand, nails, offal, filth of any kind - the veriest jerry-builde [15] is the ordinary man with his body. The purifying of the dense body will then consist in a process of deliberate selection of the particles permitted to compose it; the man will take into it in the way of food the purest constituents he can obtain, rejecting the impure and the gross; he knows that by natural change the particles built into it in the days of his careless living will gradually pass away, at least within seven years - though the process may be considerably hastened - and he resolves to build in no more that are unclean; as he increases the pure constituents he makes in his body an army of defenders, that destroy any foul particles that may fall upon it from without or enter it without his consent; and he guards it further by an active will that it shall be pure, which, acting magnetically, continually drives away from his vicinity all unclean creatures that would fain enter his body, and thus shields it from the inroads to which it is liable, while living in an atmosphere impregnated with uncleannesses of every kind.

---

True, no amount of attention paid to the physical body by the man will of itself give him spiritual life, but why should he hamper himself with an impure body? Why should he allow his powers, whether great or small, to be limited, thwarted, dwarfed in their attempts to manifest by this needlessly imperfect instrument?

[Diana]

True, no amount of attention paid to the physical body by the man will of itself give him spiritual life, but why should he hamper himself with an impure body? Why should he allow his powers, whether great or small, to be limited, thwarted, dwarfed in their attempts to manifest by this needlessly imperfect instrument?

This gets to the crux of the matter for the physical body. I have read a couple of books by the Theosophical Society, including the double set Isis Unveiled by Madame Blavatsky. Paraphrasing here, it's been a while since I read this: Their findings on "the particles" of the human body were based on "seeing" by the members. They saw that the "particles" arranged themselves in layers from fine on the inside to course on the outside, making the outside shell the coursest. The idea was that you had to shed layers to get lighter, or closer to light, and the courser the outer shell, the more difficult.

---

I came across this quote, which I thought was appropriate for the meat thread:

P: My question came up in the last session. It was surrounding Maldek and Mars. Why does it seem like such a current theme for planets to be destroying themselves? Not planets but peoples of the planets, destroying themselves, their cultures! Is it central to this solar system or is it a common theme in third density?

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. The pattern, my brother, we would agree is well advanced and is indeed endemic to this region of space controlled by the Logos, or shall we say, sub-Logos that is your sun. The creation that was designed by this entity used a great deal of free will and a heavy veiling so that it takes actual effort for most people to retrieve their memory of the larger picture that moves beyond one incarnation into the grand design of the creation itself and you as citizens of eternity.

We are not saying that the Creator has not gained a rich harvest of new information about Itself from this particular design of creation. However it does seem that the combination of advanced free will and advanced veiling of the actual metaphysical situation have created conditions that are unusually likely to produce the thought pattern of aggression in order to get one’s way. Since it is so difficult to see that we are all one in your third-density experience, since the veiling is so complete, it becomes possible for entities to contemplate ending another’s life with less discomfort than if they were contemplating ending their own life. This has made it possible for entities to become habituated to the destruction of other selves.

[Tenet Nosce]

True, no amount of attention paid to the physical body by the man will of itself give him spiritual life, but why should he hamper himself with an impure body? Why should he allow his powers, whether great or small, to be limited, thwarted, dwarfed in their attempts to manifest by this needlessly imperfect instrument?

"No amount of attention paid to the physical body by the man will of itself give him spiritual life..."

Indeed.

As for why should... I dunno, why not? Isn't this a "free will zone"? Is the point really to see how long we can live and how many magic powers we can develop? I don't feel that is the point... I feel like that is just another path one may choose among many.

If you are going down the rabbit hole of Besant, Blavatsky, and the Theosophical Society... be sure to learn about the works of Edward Bulwer-Lytton and Joseph Alexandre Saint-Yves. With some study, one can see how certain ideas were twisted by a man called Gerard Encausse (who also went by Papus) as well as the Synarchists. These streams of thought re-emerged in the Theosophical doctrine.

In this specific instance, you may wish to research how the notion of life force (or vril) got folded back on itself back into the doctrine of karman from the Jains. So the message got flip-flopped from acquiring more life force, to avoiding various "defiling" substances.

As for the rest, I will leave you with this symbol to ponder.

---

Paraphrasing here, it's been a while since I read this: Their findings on "the particles" of the human body were based on "seeing" by the members. They saw that the "particles" arranged themselves in layers from fine on the inside to course on the outside, making the outside shell the coursest. The idea was that you had to shed layers to get lighter, or closer to light, and the courser the outer shell, the more difficult.

Sounds like karman to me. As I understand it, the undistorted teaching which this was based upon was for the human to acquire more life force within. As this accumulates in the body, the outer dross shells fall away quite effortlessly and naturally. Like a butterfly.

---

I'm assuming such a textbook is accepted by mainstream dieticians?

I dunno. Actually, I would suspect that a dietician never sees this text, either. Somebody with a masters level eduction in nutrition, probably so. Dieticians and nutritionists are differently trained.

I think what goes on in the case of many MDs is that they simply forget their basic physiology. It gets buried under all the emphasis on diagnostics and pharmacology they later receive. If they went back and reviewed the basic physiology they might not conclude that giving drugs is the appropriate treatment of first resort.

But as for this particular textbook, it is a physiology textbook. Nothing about therapeutics. Most practitioners across the whole board agree upon the basic physiology working behind the scenes. Bottom line with digestive enzymes is that they are destructive. This is why the body takes great efforts to compartmentalize them and why an enzyme acting within a cell needs to be manufactured within that cell.

Digestive enzymes are also employed, for example, if a cell turns cancerous and needs to self-destruct. They are released inside the cell from storage containers called lysozymes.

Another related, overlooked, but critical point is that the digestive tract is technically outside the body. Not inside of it. We don't exactly want digestive enzymes passing from the outside to the inside.

Enzymes do not discriminate between "good stuff" and "bad stuff". An enzyme like lipase, which is designed to break down fat, will break down any kind of fat it encounters that has the proper chemical configuration. This would include, for example, the fats in the walls of arteries and veins that help them maintain flexibility.

I take your word for it. My point is just that the field of metabolism still has a lot of unanswered questions, and any textbook might not be up-to-date on all the clinical research.

Yes... and that was the 3rd edition so it is over ten years old I think. Though science has not, to this point, overturned some of these basic understandings to which I refer. Nor is it necessary to contradict this basic understanding in order to employ a workable holistic model and natural remedies.

And that's not even taking into consideration any possibility of mutation due to spiritual evolution.

Right!

Personally, I respect your training and experience!

Thanks!

NOT saying you're mainstream! I know you're an ND. I'm just suggesting that the lack of instant trust in your views based on your medical training not be construed as a lack of respect for you as a person or as a practitioner.

I get that. I am not really trying to throw my credentials around. But it might be helpful for others to understand that when I start going into nauseating detail on a subject... whether enzymes or Ra quotes... that is because I have personally and extensively studied the issue at hand.

In many cases, I have already gone down the tube that I see others going down, and I know that it is a sidetrack or dead end. But I suppose the only way for anybody else to really know for themselves is to go down it.

Remember, a highly credentialed RN/nutritionist is the one who got me addicted to excessive cleansing and drinking distilled water, which almost killed me!

To this day, since I encounter a lot of practitioners, I still come across highly credentialed people who recommend distilled water, as well as others who are horrified that anyone would still recommend it!

I meet highly credentialed practitioners who advocate heavy meat diets, while others advocate plant-based diets.

Again, I didn't mean to place undue emphasis on the credentials. In and of themselves, they are meaningless.

Even among the so-called 'experts' there is a wide variety of opinion about many aspects of health. Highly intelligent, highly trained people often disagree.

Yes, but when highly intelligent, highly trained experts do all agree upon something... that should be an indication that what they are agreeing upon is probably true.

In this case, we are not debating about the therapeutic value of enzymes. We are (apparently) debating about how enzymes work on a biochemical level in general.

So please understand that it's nothing personally directed at you, if some members of this forum question some things that might seem 'fact' to you.

Well, I certainly might be making things up in my mind about that. I will say that it appears to me that if I said the sky was blue, certain individuals would feel compelled to call it green. Not you. Also, I am saying this in the broader context of this forum, rather than just this specific thread.

I don't know enough about lipase to have an opinion.

Exactly. Now what would drive a person to go around making claims about lipase, if they don't even really understand what it is?

I am curious, though, what you thought of Viktoras' views on enzymes?

Haven't watched the video yet. I'm bad about that! LOL I will watch it and see if I can formulate an intelligent opinion on it.

Recently, one of the doctors (an ND) who bought a water machine from me, explained that when the body is too acidic, the areas of the body that are actually supposed to be acidic (stomach, vagina for example) have the reverse effect and are too alkaline. So those with acid reflux and poor digestion actually have stomachs that are too alkaline. When their body's overall pH is brought into a slightly alkaline balance, guess what, the stomach gets more acidic and, if female, the vagina gets more acidic.

That is an interesting angle which I haven't heard before. So I will refrain from making an assessment. I know that the acid/alkaline thing is another area that frequently gets oversimplified to the point where things are missed. It is true that different compartments of the body have different ideal pH ranges.

As regards enzymes- of all types- the body typically makes from 3 to 7 different isozymes, which are like a family of enzymes that all do the same thing... but function at a slightly different pH range. I can see how always having the body pushed to the acidic end of the spectrum could cause problems. But I would guess the optimum state is rhythmically moving from one end of the spectrum to the other. Always pushing the alkaline limits would probably have a negative effect as well, in my view.

Also keep in mind when we are talking about a range of pH in the blood it is between 7.35 and 7.45. The blood never actually becomes "acidic". If the pH falls below 7.35 for any length of time the body will cease to function altogether.

I found this to explain my own experiences with improved digestion and relief from previously chronic female problems. And, incidentally, taking enzyme supplements had never really helped me in any way that I could tell. But now, if I take enzyme supplements, I end up burping them up and get a bit of acid reflux! I don't know quite what to make of that! but have concluded that maybe now my stomach acid is what it's supposed to be, and maybe I don't need them anymore...?

I dunno. Generally speaking, if you take something that your body makes naturally long enough it will eventually stop making it on its own. This is generally not beneficial. Which is why I take issue with slapping "good" and "bad" labels on anything, including dietary supplements.

I think that, just as with nutrients from food vs artificial vitamin supplements, maybe there's a difference between enzyme supplements vs naturally occurring enzymes from living foods.

Actually, many supplement enzymes are food-derived. For example, bromelain comes from pineapple and papain from papaya. Both of these enzymes are proteolytic, which means they break down protein. Interestingly, neither pineapple nor papaya contain much protein. As with most fruits, they are more than 90% carbohydrate.

This is not uncommon. In actuality, many foods do not contain the enzymes needed for an animal to digest them. So this runs directly contrary to the raw food propaganda, and there are many examples of this I could provide.

The point is that it is your body which is supposed to secrete the enzymes needed to digest the food you eat. This is accomplished by a feed-forward mechanism which utilizes the senses of smell and taste. The body is supposed to anticipate what is coming down the hatch, and release the appropriate enzymes to digest it. These enzymes should have already been formed in their respective organs (stomach, pancreas and liver) and waiting at the ready.

So what I do now is eat more raw, live foods. And if I do have a cooked meal, I try to always have a glass of veggie juice with it. So I'm getting the enzymes but in food form instead of supplement form.

Depending on the individual situation, raw foods may place more strain on the digestive system. This is precisely because they don't contain all the enzymes which the human body needs to digest them, as is claimed by many gurus.

Now that being said... I doubt you are one of those individuals for which it is a poor choice. I am thinking about people whose bodies are already in a weakened state and/or not able to produce its own enzymes.

There is no one-size-fits-all in that sense.

Or in any sense. Maybe I am just shooting myself in the foot, but when I see an author/guru/practitioner coming from this perspective, I reject whatever conclusions they arrive because I don't agree with the thought process used to get there.

Absolutist thinking tells me that a person is not sufficiently prepared to be a leader or teacher. Now of course, it would seem that most people disagree, since they keep electing these types into various offices and buying their books/tapes/videos etc.

I see your point here. I seem to remember hearing something about "mainstream lab tests don't show systemic candida infections" or something like that. Does the mainstream even recognize candida at all though? I thought they didn't...?

People can and do get tested for anti-candida antibodies in the blood. What most mainstream doctors don't do is look specifically in the gut. But generally, candida is well-known even in mainstream medicine as systemic infection is a risk for those who are immunocompromised, such as an AIDS patient.

As for labs like Metametrix and Genova. These are totally legitimate labs. And insurance providers would pay for many of their tests... and specifically the digestive function tests... if practitioners (both mainstream and alternative) would bother to educate themselves about it rather than spreading rhetoric and disinformation. I know for a fact that Blue Cross reimburses for Genova's test, for example.

They are also available at a greatly reduced price for those who **shock and amazement** would actually PAY out of their own pocket for something which would directly benefit their own health.

Hey speaking of parasites did you hear about that tapeworm therapy? I actually met a woman who paid $7k to have tapeworm eggs injected into her body! CREEPY!!!

It astounds me that anybody... patient or practitioner... would see this as a valid option. It just goes to show the level of denial people are willing to accept if it suits their own distorted beliefs.

I think colon cleansing is a very valuable and important tool for someone transitioning from the SAD diet to a healthy diet. It can speed up the process of detox drastically.

Yes, if done properly and in the overall context of a carefully constructed detox program. Similar to the situation with enzymes or body acidity, there isn't just one detox pathway in the body. There are many, and detoxing the wrong pathway, or in the incorrect order, may actually cause harm.

This is why when people ask me what I think about "doing a detox" my first response is "Great! What are you detoxing?" This almost invariably results in a baffled look. What? You mean all "toxins" aren't the same?

So notice how these concepts we have discussed about enzymes, body acidity, and detoxing, all seem to be part of the propaganda put forth by certain natural practitioners. Can you see how they all rest upon a faulty logic that oversimplifies the situation, making it appear "black and white"?

After that, it shouldn't be needed anymore if the diet stays clean.

... and even if it doesn't! The body is actually designed to handle quite an onslaught of toxicity. The biochemical processes of life itself are toxic to the body, if not dealt with appropriately. This is a frequently missed, yet critical, point.

In a practical sense, if the body is in a healthy state, then it should snap back quite easily from a night of drunken debauchery... so long as they are few and far enough inbetween.

When a person's body can't tolerate a sip of alcohol, that is a sign of a problem. Ever wonder why some people who live a "squeaky clean" lifestyle still turn up with cancer and other debilitating diseases? This is because their body can't handle the toxins produced within.

From a metaphysical standpoint, I wonder if this might have something to do with denial of their own negativity and the destructive nature of their being. Going back to the trinity concept, in Hinduism we have the Creator, the Preserver, and the Destroyer. It is kind of like denying the Destroyer, or pretending that it doesn't really exist. Or kind of like the Triforce in the Legend of Zelda. When the Triforce of Power becomes separated from the other two, the result is a schism whereby the other two seek reunion (as represented by Link and Zelda). In Ra terminology, we have love and light... but no power. I notice that Q'uo has been speaking more in terms of love, and light, and power lately.

Or maybe just looking at it from a more naturalistic perspective. There is a destructive force in nature. It is actually a good thing. Nature kills physical forms so that the consciousness within may evolve into new forms, and to eventually become formless. This is why I don't believe that killing equates to harm. In order for there to be harm, there must be an intention for something different to have happened. And even with that, we are talking about on the level of the Higher Self, not on the level of biological preservation instincts.

The body will always seek to protect itself from destruction. I believe the body is the representation of the Preserver (Form) aspect of the trinity being. The other two are the Creator (Spirit) and the Destroyer (Consciousness).

I wonder if, in an unconscious individual, the Consciousness has to "trick" the body into dying through behaviors that erode away at its' health. Like say, heavy smoking or alcoholism. I imagine in the case of an individual who is both fully conscious and fully conscientious about the body, eventually they would have to end their life by an act of self-will.

I also ponder upon the difference between the doctrine of eternal life, and the doctrine of immortality. Now think back to certain Egyptian teachings that may have been sourced from Ra, and possibly how they could have become corrupted by STS and the false Yahweh.

Remember my name
Fame

I'm gonna live forever
I'm gonna learn how to fly
High

I feel it coming together
People will see me and cry
Fame

I'm gonna make it to heaven
Light up the sky like a flame
Fame

I'm gonna live forever
Baby remember my name

I wonder... what does this mean for states where the Consciousness becomes overly fixated on the preservation of the Form? Is that its' mission and purpose in life? To take care of the body?

But getting back to physiology... the biochemical processes of life themselves are toxic to the body. This is a fact, and I think profoundly relevant to the evaluation of certain philosophies which say "you should never harm the body". Whether yours, or even somebody else's.

But if the person focuses on just getting the right stuff in, the bad stuff will eventually come out. It'll just take a lot longer.

Maybe there is something important about the body's natural timing mechanisms.

Rapid detox might make the difference between living or dying for some people, especially those with cancer. They might really need to detox fast.

Possibly. But just as well could somebody be causing themselves more harm by detoxing too rapidly, or incompletely, or in the incorrect order.

If they are facing immanent separation of their consciousness from the form (which may not actually be a bad thing) then perhaps more extreme measures would be in order. But they come with a higher risk. So I believe it would be even MORE important to not run off half-cocked and fearful making rash decisions with the help of health gurus and ill-advised friends and family members.

[BrownEye]

My issue with nutritional schooling arose after my experience in the NICU. Having been browbeaten for weeks to allow them to feed my daughter powdered fortifier. Constant harassment and guilt trips. Even after using the excuse that all family members were milk intolerant (a fib). Not having the right type of experience at the time, we finally gave in, against our better judgement. They promised that they would cease at the first sign of problems.

In about a week she stopped breathing, and developed that necrotitis or whatever. I did a search for week/necrotitis and found a ton of mothers that had gone through the same thing, the exact problem, at the exact same period of introducing the formula. It took another week before she stabilized, and the calls and browbeating resumed. The nutritional doc finally gave up after I brought in a printed copy from the FDA website, from years earlier, stating that it was not safe to give the stuff to preemies. I also printed the big warning from the makers website, explaining that even though it is formulated for preemies, it is not safe for preemies.

After telling me that there were no specific mineral supplements alone that we could use, and that the only option was fortifier, the doctor refused to deal with us any longer and we ended up with a Hindu doctor. He said we were correct in everything we were doing, and came up with the exact minerals needed, and things went well from there.

One of the things I noticed is that the mothers intuition means nothing in the medical field, there is only standard care. My wife had repeatedly asked for a smaller bottle nipple to make it easier for her to swallow, while they told us there was only the one size available. Our daughter spent extra time in the NICU because they said her heart would stop during swallow. After a battery of tests, and a bunch of X-rays during swallow, they told me they needed to switch to a smaller nipple because the big gulp would press against her heart as it went down.

Pretty much the whole ordeal was a fight to get her out of the building with the least amount of harm. I found afterwards that the standard of care sets up our children for cancer and other health issues when they get older.

The nutritional expert even told us that our decisions will guarantee eye problems, lung problems, bone problems, and brain issues. For some reason she has no problems at all, as compared to the norm.

[fr33d0m]

I can't believe it. This thread is singly responsible for me going veggie. I am amazed. Thanks thread, no more meat!

[BrownEye]

I have to say the NICU period was the darkest part of my life. I would have a panic attack, and bring up a page of Ra, and the answer to my downward spiral was right there. I couldn't keep my mind on the info, but once I would give up on the thoughts I was dwelling on, I would look at a page and the answers were right there. Total calm would take over at that moment. The transcripts really pulled me out of my self destructive spiral of that period.

After coming through all of that I was shown that I have inner guidance. From that point there was no looking back. I changed.

[Tenet Nosce]

My issue with nutritional schooling arose after my experience in the NICU.

Well, the NICU is definitely going to be a bastion of establishment and fear-based medicine. Those docs and nurses tend to be more concerned with keeping lawsuits away than what is truly best for a baby... but also with good reason as so many Americans are sue happy. Not all babies make it. This is a very sad, but true, fact of life. Especially sad if one believes that was the soul's one and only shot at taking on a physical form.

Having been browbeaten for weeks to allow them to feed my daughter powdered fortifier.

When and where was this?

Constant harassment and guilt trips.

Sounds like some fairly unevolved sorts of caretakers.

In about a week she stopped breathing, and developed that necrotitis or whatever. I did a search for week/necrotitis and found a ton of mothers that had gone through the same thing, the exact problem, at the exact same period of introducing the formula.

Good thing you found that!

It took another week before she stabilized, and the calls and browbeating resumed. The nutritional doc finally gave up after I brought in a printed copy from the FDA website, from years earlier, stating that it was not safe to give the stuff to preemies. I also printed the big warning from the makers website, explaining that even though it is formulated for preemies, it is not safe for preemies.

At the risk of sounding offensive, these people sound like idiots to me. I find it unfortunate that we live in a society whereby these types are allowed to take positions of authority.

After telling me that there were no specific mineral supplements alone that we could use, and that the only option was fortifier, the doctor refused to deal with us any longer and we ended up with a Hindu doctor. He said we were correct in everything we were doing, and came up with the exact minerals needed, and things went well from there.

Was he an Avuyvedic practitioner? Or..?

One of the things I noticed is that the mothers intuition means nothing in the medical field, there is only standard care.

This is definitely not the case in naturopathic medicine- a field which is largely dominated by intuitive motherly types!

My wife had repeatedly asked for a smaller bottle nipple to make it easier for her to swallow, while they told us there was only the one size available. Our daughter spent extra time in the NICU because they said her heart would stop during swallow. After a battery of tests, and a bunch of X-rays during swallow, they told me they needed to switch to a smaller nipple because the big gulp would press against her heart as it went down.

I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with this institution. Was there no other option at the time?

Pretty much the whole ordeal was a fight to get her out of the building with the least amount of harm. I found afterwards that the standard of care sets up our children for cancer and other health issues when they get older.

Yes. "Standard of care" is a binding legal term which refers to the consensus view among one's peers. If an MD does not follow standard of care (ie do what everybody else is doing) then they are exposing themselves to liability should something turn for the worse.

Or even beyond that, if things should just turn out as they simply do. It is a sad situation for all sides, but most Americans have this unreasonable expectation that refuses to accept the reality that some babies do not make it. So they need somebody to blame. And, apparently a sizeable check for the "pain and suffering" that the Creator's creation has created for them as catalyst.

Others would have society or "the government" foot the bill for untold millions of dollars of treatments employing technologies to keep a baby alive that wouldn't otherwise make it in the world. Unfortunately, these people seem to have difficulty perceiving that "the government" is just proxy for their neighbor. Things aren't really "free" in this life. Somebody has to pay for them.

The nutritional expert even told us that our decisions will guarantee eye problems, lung problems, bone problems, and brain issues.

Specifically what decisions supposedly guarantee this? Not using fortified powders? Or?

For some reason she has no problems at all, as compared to the norm.

Great to hear that expert was wrong!

[Monica]

I can't believe it. This thread is singly responsible for me going veggie. I am amazed. Thanks thread, no more meat!

:exclamation::exclamation::exclamation::exclamation::exclamation::exclamation:

[BrownEye]

When and where was this?

This was a couple years ago at the Omaha Childrens Hospital. They seem to be highly rated and promote breast feeding, although only if you add their fortifier.

Was he an Avuyvedic practitioner? Or..?

Really no idea. Sharing my story with a white woman at the bank in a white town in a white state (NE), she tells me that if I end up choosing a doc, to find one that is Indian. I asked if she meant the Hindu variety and she said yes, they are the best doctors. That really stood out to me in my particular surroundings.

Was there no other option at the time?

My wife wakes me up in the morning to tell me she thinks the water may have broke. I told her to call the doc. She heads to the hospital and when she got up out of the waiting room seat at the hospital it fully gave way. So I get the kids up and head down there and hear the news. In a town of less than 5000 people the hospital was not equipped for a 23 week old. I could tell the doctor was panicking. The decision was made right then, and while at home packing up the kids, I tell them that mom was in the helicopter that just went over the house, and head up to Omaha 220 miles away. While I really enjoyed the time with the kids, not having to work, I missed my wife.

It is a sad situation for all sides, but most Americans have this unreasonable expectation that refuses to accept the reality that some babies do not make it. So they need somebody to blame.

She would have been out of there a month earlier if they would have noted what we said. The fortifier incident added a couple weeks, then the too large a nipple added another two weeks. Both cases where they ignored us.



A CBS2/Beacon News investigation uncovered other cases in which powdered formula was blamed for causing brain damage or death in infants. There have been at least two Illinois cases, and cases in at least 17 other states.

“It’s not an isolated problem,” said Ed Manzke, one of the attorneys hired in Connor McGray’s case. “There have been deaths all across the country related to powder infant formulas. And what is so shocking about it, is hardly anyone knows it.”

A 2001 E-Sak outbreak in Tennessee led to a 2002 U.S. Food and Drug Administration warning to health professionals. In a letter the FDA wrote: “… FDA recommends that powdered infant formulas not be used in neonatal intensive care settings unless there is no alternative available.”

The FDA also said there are sterilized liquid fortifiers on the market that can be used as an alternative. The FDA would not put a complete ban on the powder and said it may be used in the NICU when no appropriate liquid product is available.

Five years after this FDA warning, Connor McGray was given the powdered formula, according to the Health Department document.
His family says he was getting stronger and doing well until he got the powder.

Similar to Connor, Daniel Korte was born prematurely last year. He, too, was fed powdered infant formula and was struck with the same infection and meningitis. His parents said the contaminated formula was fed to him at Mercy Medical Center in Des Moines, Iowa.

Daniel survived, but is living in a nursing facility on a ventilator.
“It basically turned his brain to mush,” said Michelle Korte, Daniel’s mother. “He is ventilated and his upper brain is destroyed.”
http://naturalbeginningsutah.com/wordpre...e-infants/

............................

A literature search shows that there are documented and studied outbreaks of cronobacter infections. (Van Acker J et al. "Outbreak of necrotizing enterocolitis associated with Enterobacter sakazakii in powdered milk formula." J Clin Microbiol 2001, 39:293-297, and Forsythe SJ: "Enterobacter sakazakii and other bacteria in powdered infant milk formula" Maternal Child Nutr 2005, 1:44-50). E-sak infections have been reported world wide, with three-quarters of the infected infants being diagnosed with meningitis.

................................

NEC is a serious condition that occurs most often in preterm and very immature neonates; it develops in about 5 per cent of all neonates in neonatal intensive care units. The exact cause of the condition is not known, but it is related to ischemia or poor perfusion of blood vessels in sections of the bowel. The ischemia is thought to occur when an earlier oxygen depletion in the heart and brain, as in anoxia or shock, causes blood to be shunted away from less vital organs such as the intestine.

Since the incidence of NEC is low in neonates who are breast-fed, it is likely that the necrotizing process is initiated by a response to the protein in cow's milk and the profuse multiplication of bacteria that thrive more readily in cow's milk than in breast milk. The gas-forming bacteria invade the damaged intestinal cells, causing them to rupture and producing pneumatosis intestinalis, that is, the presence of air in the submucosal or subserosal surfaces of the colon.

...............

NEC is what she developed, and it is talked about quite a bit across the web. I notice that most of the pissed off parents found a connection to cows milk. Many of the parents lost their child after the second round of fortifier attempts were made. She may have been another statistic if I did not raise hell.

[Monica]

Study shows lab rats would rather free a friend than eat chocolate

...pairs of rats that normally shared a cage were placed in a special area, where one was confined to a closed tube with a door that could be opened from the outside while the other remained able to roam around freely. The researchers observed that “the free rat acted more agitated when its cagemate was restrained, compared to its activity when the rat was placed in a cage with an empty restrainer.”

This kind of “emotional contagion” had been observed previously in tats — but what happened next was more unexpected. As described by Science Daily, “After several daily restraint sessions, the free rat learned how to open the restrainer door and free its cagemate...”

“We are not training these rats in any way,” one of the designers of the experiment explained. “These rats are learning because they are motivated by something internal. We’re not showing them how to open the door, they don’t get any previous exposure on opening the door, and it’s hard to open the door. But they keep trying and trying, and it eventually works.”

Further variations on the experiment appeared to confirm that the rats were acting out of pure empathy. For example, they would not bother to open the door when a toy rat was placed in the tube. However, they would open it even if it released their companion into a separate area, meaning they were not just looking for company.

And not only that, but when the rats were offered two tubes — one of which contained their companion and the other a pile of chocolate chips — they were as likely to free the other rat first as they were to start by gobbling all the chocolate. There were also cases in which the rat retrieved the chocolate chips first but didn’t eat them until after freeing the other and sharing the chocolate with them.

There was, however, one significant gender-based difference. Females were more consistent than males both in learning how to open the door and in using this skill to free a trapped companion.

[Diana]

Monica, WOW, on the rat observations.

[Tenet Nosce]

Study shows lab rats would rather free a friend than eat chocolate

Hmm... I wonder if they would have found the same result ten or a hundred years ago..?!

[Monica]

Another related, overlooked, but critical point is that the digestive tract is technically outside the body. Not inside of it.

Can you explain what you mean here? Do you mean, self-contained, as in walled off and nothing passes outside its walls? Is this different from other areas of the body?

Enzymes do not discriminate between "good stuff" and "bad stuff". An enzyme like lipase, which is designed to break down fat, will break down any kind of fat it encounters that has the proper chemical configuration. This would include, for example, the fats in the walls of arteries and veins that help them maintain flexibility.

Wouldn't that be a good thing if there is too much of the bad fats in the arteries?

Companies selling lipase claim it can clean out the arteries of the bad fats.

I get that. I am not really trying to throw my credentials around. But it might be helpful for others to understand that when I start going into nauseating detail on a subject... whether enzymes or Ra quotes... that is because I have personally and extensively studied the issue at hand.

In many cases, I have already gone down the tube that I see others going down, and I know that it is a sidetrack or dead end. But I suppose the only way for anybody else to really know for themselves is to go down it.

I understand. It's also true, though, that many 'experts' in any given field also feel that they've put in a huge amount of study and research, and they still disagree with one another.

Yes, but when highly intelligent, highly trained experts do all agree upon something... that should be an indication that what they are agreeing upon is probably true.

Good point. So the question then becomes: Do all the highly trained experts agree on the issue of enzymes?

They might agree about the role of enzymes in the body, but not necessarily agree about whether taking enzyme supplements is beneficial.

Viktoras Kulvinskas is a huge proponent of taking enzyme supplements, but I've wondered why he needs them, since he is raw vegan.

In this case, we are not debating about the therapeutic value of enzymes. We are (apparently) debating about how enzymes work on a biochemical level in general.

Oops, I had it backwards! Well in that case I can't comment, since I don't have enough knowledge of physiology and chemistry. I defer to your knowledge in this case.

Well, I certainly might be making things up in my mind about that. I will say that it appears to me that if I said the sky was blue, certain individuals would feel compelled to call it green. Not you. Also, I am saying this in the broader context of this forum, rather than just this specific thread.

Really?

Always pushing the alkaline limits would probably have a negative effect as well, in my view.

Yes it would. But it's a lot more difficult to accomplish. Most people are waaaaaaay on the acidic side, and it's very difficult to even get up to neutral, much less get too alkaline. In fact, the insert in the pH strips box says that any test of 8.0 or higher is actually a false positive and actually indicates extreme acidity, around 4.5. It explains why this is so, but I don't remember the reason.

Also keep in mind when we are talking about a range of pH in the blood it is between 7.35 and 7.45. The blood never actually becomes "acidic". If the pH falls below 7.35 for any length of time the body will cease to function altogether.

That's correct. I deal with this everyday, especially with doctors who almost always think we're claiming the blood pH can change. We're not.

In order to keep the blood pH in that narrow range, the body has to steal minerals from the organs, bones and tissues to buffer the blood from acidic waste. Hence, the blood will be just fine, but the rest of the body will be too acidic...leading to inflammation, etc.

I dunno. Generally speaking, if you take something that your body makes naturally long enough it will eventually stop making it on its own. This is generally not beneficial.

I agree. I took 'natural' bio-identical progesterone many years ago and it caused problems. Later, I found a website run by Dr. Theresa Dale, who seems to be the lone voice arguing that even the 'natural' hormones are bad, because the body gets dependent on them and forgets how to make its own hormones. She recommends homeopathic remedies instead, to re-train the body to make its own hormones. I think she's right on!

Actually, many supplement enzymes are food-derived. For example, bromelain comes from pineapple and papain from papaya. Both of these enzymes are proteolytic, which means they break down protein. Interestingly, neither pineapple nor papaya contain much protein. As with most fruits, they are more than 90% carbohydrate.

Well that's curious. Why, then, do you suppose pineapple would contain an enzyme needed to digest protein, when it has almost no protein?

This is not uncommon. In actuality, many foods do not contain the enzymes needed for an animal to digest them. So this runs directly contrary to the raw food propaganda, and there are many examples of this I could provide.

Interestingly, one of the raw vegan gurus recently ran an article in which he totally blasted the enzyme philosophy.

Depending on the individual situation, raw foods may place more strain on the digestive system. This is precisely because they don't contain all the enzymes which the human body needs to digest them, as is claimed by many gurus.

Hmmm...I'll have to ponder that. I personally feel great after a raw meal but heavier after a cooked vegan meal.

Now that being said... I doubt you are one of those individuals for which it is a poor choice. I am thinking about people whose bodies are already in a weakened state and/or not able to produce its own enzymes.

It may be that some people who wish to go raw vegan should transition gradually. The raw foods themselves will strengthen their lifeforce, thus making them better able to digest more raw foods!

Absolutist thinking tells me that a person is not sufficiently prepared to be a leader or teacher. Now of course, it would seem that most people disagree, since they keep electing these types into various offices and buying their books/tapes/videos etc.

Well I could say something here that would totally take us into a tangent, but I will refrain! Suffice to say that the average person doesn't form opinions based on due diligence, but based on slick advertising, talking points, etc.

People can and do get tested for anti-candida antibodies in the blood. What most mainstream doctors don't do is look specifically in the gut. But generally, candida is well-known even in mainstream medicine as systemic infection is a risk for those who are immunocompromised, such as an AIDS patient.

Thanks. I was wondering about that!

if practitioners (both mainstream and alternative) would bother to educate themselves about it rather than spreading rhetoric and disinformation.

You're familiar with Life Extension, right? They're really big into lab testing. They're also way more into heavy supplements for my taste, but they seem to be serving as a bridge for people transitioning from allopathic to holistic.

They are also available at a greatly reduced price for those who **shock and amazement** would actually PAY out of their own pocket for something which would directly benefit their own health.

Hey! We alternative folks have been paying out-of-pocket for decades! Man, I've spent a fortune on health foods and natural practitioners!

So notice how these concepts we have discussed about enzymes, body acidity, and detoxing, all seem to be part of the propaganda put forth by certain natural practitioners. Can you see how they all rest upon a faulty logic that oversimplifies the situation, making it appear "black and white"?

Well yes I do see that. But at the same time, much of it is valid too. The challenge is to sift thru it all and not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

After that, it shouldn't be needed anymore if the diet stays clean.

... and even if it doesn't! The body is actually designed to handle quite an onslaught of toxicity. The biochemical processes of life itself are toxic to the body, if not dealt with appropriately. This is a frequently missed, yet critical, point.

In a practical sense, if the body is in a healthy state, then it should snap back quite easily from a night of drunken debauchery... so long as they are few and far enough inbetween.

Sure. But the problem is that we're all being exposed to extremely high levels of toxicity on a daily basis. We can't escape it. It's in the air we breathe, it's on the foods we eat, it's in dental fillings...

When a person's body can't tolerate a sip of alcohol, that is a sign of a problem. Ever wonder why some people who live a "squeaky clean" lifestyle still turn up with cancer and other debilitating diseases? This is because their body can't handle the toxins produced within.

Respectfully, that sounds like the very type of oversimplification you have been railing against.

How can the toxins that are produced within possibly be separated from the toxins the body has been exposed to externally?

Who on this planet can say they have never been exposed to the toxic air, pesticides, etc.?

Some are canaries in the coal mine. I know a lady who has acute reactions to EMF's. She gets very very ill if she's around a computer or cell tower.

From a metaphysical standpoint, I wonder if this might have something to do with denial of their own negativity and the destructive nature of their being. Going back to the trinity concept, in Hinduism we have the Creator, the Preserver, and the Destroyer. It is kind of like denying the Destroyer, or pretending that it doesn't really exist. Or kind of like the Triforce in the Legend of Zelda. When the Triforce of Power becomes separated from the other two, the result is a schism whereby the other two seek reunion (as represented by Link and Zelda). In Ra terminology, we have love and light... but no power. I notice that Q'uo has been speaking more in terms of love, and light, and power lately.

Interesting idea! I've wondered why we have to deal with all these toxins. I mean, take cell phones for example. Such a convenience! Why in the world does it have to harmful?

Or maybe just looking at it from a more naturalistic perspective. There is a destructive force in nature. It is actually a good thing. Nature kills physical forms so that the consciousness within may evolve into new forms, and to eventually become formless. This is why I don't believe that killing equates to harm. In order for there to be harm, there must be an intention for something different to have happened. And even with that, we are talking about on the level of the Higher Self, not on the level of biological preservation instincts.

You're getting into the question of why there are 2 paths in the first place. Each has their role.

---

My issue with nutritional schooling arose after my experience in the NICU. Having been browbeaten for weeks to allow them to feed my daughter powdered fortifier. Constant harassment and guilt trips. Even after using the excuse that all family members were milk intolerant (a fib). Not having the right type of experience at the time, we finally gave in, against our better judgement. They promised that they would cease at the first sign of problems.

Oh Pickle, what a heart-wrenching story!! But I'm so glad you championed your baby and wife, and stood firm! And now your healthy child is living proof!

I can soooo relate! My son was in NICU for 10 days and I had to do battle just to get to breastfeed. But because I'd had a C-section and was wiped out myself, I didn't get to control what he was given the first 36 hours, unfortunately. And he wasn't even a preemie.

---

Hmm... I wonder if they would have found the same result ten or a hundred years ago..?!

That's an interesting question. Are you suggesting that rats, as a species, have evolved in the last decade or century?

[Tenet Nosce]

Can you explain what you mean here? Do you mean, self-contained, as in walled off and nothing passes outside its walls? Is this different from other areas of the body?

No, what I mean is that topologically, or geometrically, speaking, the body is a torus, or a donut shape. The digestive tract running from the mouth to the anus is technically outside the body. It may seem a bit esoteric of a point, but I think it is highly significant. Especially in light of "nested worlds" and such.

Of course, things do pass to and fro, but it is a very specialized sort of exchange. Kind of like the skin... The point is that just because something enters our mouths doesn't necessarily mean it enters our bodies. Other things must get broken down into smaller parts and there really is no guarantee that they will be put back together in the same way.

Wouldn't that be a good thing if there is too much of the bad fats in the arteries?

Possibly so. But consider this in light of the idea that the deposition of "bad fat" is an attempt by the body to protect damaged arterial walls. What happens if we peel off the "band-aid" but don't treat the wound?

Companies selling lipase claim it can clean out the arteries of the bad fats.

It can. But it doesn't know how to discern between "good" and "bad" fats. (Actually good/bad is again somewhat of a misnomer here.) Similar to how some people promote consumption of plain distilled water to "pull out the toxins". Well, sure it will pull out the toxins... along with everything else! These things act mechanically to various chemical laws... they have no consciousness of their own.

I understand. It's also true, though, that many 'experts' in any given field also feel that they've put in a huge amount of study and research, and they still disagree with one another.

Well, that's true. All I can say is that I have a pretty good track record so far in terms of what I thought was true about the body turning out to actually be true. How do I know? That's anybody's guess.

Good point. So the question then becomes: Do all the highly trained experts agree on the issue of enzymes?

Well, they agree as to the nature of enzymes and how they work. For example, that the lipase in food or secreted by the body into the digestive tract has little bearing on the lipase acting within a fat cell to break down fat. It is the same molecule... but in two different contexts. They are not directly linked, although everything is connected at some level.

For example, as regards this idea of "depleting enzymes". All enzymes are made of protein. So, if a person's diet is deficient in protein, the body will have trouble making all the enzymes it needs. But even then, it won't just stop. It will slow down, and start to pull protein out of the muscle tissue.

Then, if it is still deficient in protein the body will tend to shut down what it considers to be "auxiliary systems". Usually the reproductive system goes first, then certain branches of the immune system.

The digestive system is typically one of the last to go... precisely because everything else depends on it. But I have seen situations where people don't seem to be producing enough proteolytic (protein-eating) enzymes in the gut. This is a real pickle because how can the body get in protein to make the enzymes it needs to break down the protein?!

Now to confound the issue, and bring it back to meat-eating, research demonstrates that different people's bodies seem more able to digest different kinds of protein sources. This is because their bodies' digestive enzyme profiles differ from one another.

They might agree about the role of enzymes in the body, but not necessarily agree about whether taking enzyme supplements is beneficial.

Right. Although actually I haven't seen too much resistance to the idea of enzyme supplements if it can be shown that the body is not digesting food properly.

Viktoras Kulvinskas is a huge proponent of taking enzyme supplements, but I've wondered why he needs them, since he is raw vegan.

Well, I don't know in his particular case. But his choosing to take enzyme supplements despite being a raw vegan is consistent with what I know... that for some people raw veggies are particularly difficult for them to digest.

Really?

Well, I might be making it up. Strange negative energies appear to be afoot once again, so perhaps this is clouding my ability to discern what is really going on.

Yes it would. But it's a lot more difficult to accomplish. Most people are waaaaaaay on the acidic side, and it's very difficult to even get up to neutral, much less get too alkaline.

No doubt about that. I just point it out because sometimes people fall back to acid/bad - alkaline/good and I don't think that is the best conceptualization. I would imagine the body operates most efficiently when all the available pH ranges are utilized. But you are right... somebody eating the SAD diet is not in risk of becoming too alkaline.

That's correct. I deal with this everyday, especially with doctors who almost always think we're claiming the blood pH can change. We're not.

Sadly, I think much of the confusion is due to partially-informed practitioners who are actually claiming such things.

Well that's curious. Why, then, do you suppose pineapple would contain an enzyme needed to digest protein, when it has almost no protein?

Not sure! I think that is part of what the Creator built into the program to encourage humanity to seek deeper into the true nature of reality, and our purpose here.

Interestingly, one of the raw vegan gurus recently ran an article in which he totally blasted the enzyme philosophy.

Interesting. Do you have a link?

Hmmm...I'll have to ponder that. I personally feel great after a raw meal but heavier after a cooked vegan meal.

I don't doubt you do. But what goes on with your body may not be wholly generalizable to others. For example:

Enterotypes of the human gut microbiome.

This indicates further the existence of a limited number of well-balanced host-microbial symbiotic states that might respond differently to diet and drug intake. The enterotypes are mostly driven by species composition, but abundant molecular functions are not necessarily provided by abundant species, highlighting the importance of a functional analysis to understand microbial communities.

Linking long-term dietary patterns with gut microbial enterotypes.

Diet strongly affects human health, partly by modulating gut microbiome composition. We used diet inventories and 16S rDNA sequencing to characterize fecal samples from 98 individuals. Fecal communities clustered into enterotypes distinguished primarily by levels of Bacteroides and Prevotella. Enterotypes were strongly associated with long-term diets, particularly protein and animal fat (Bacteroides) versus carbohydrates (Prevotella). A controlled-feeding study of 10 subjects showed that microbiome composition changed detectably within 24 hours of initiating a high-fat/low-fiber or low-fat/high-fiber diet, but that enterotype identity remained stable during the 10-day study. Thus, alternative enterotype states are associated with long-term diet.

It may be that some people who wish to go raw vegan should transition gradually. The raw foods themselves will strengthen their lifeforce, thus making them better able to digest more raw foods!

I suspect that is the case.

You're familiar with Life Extension, right? They're really big into lab testing. They're also way more into heavy supplements for my taste, but they seem to be serving as a bridge for people transitioning from allopathic to holistic.

Yes. They were a client of ours at one time. They were looking for somebody to rewrite their therapeutic manual, and we couldn't find anybody who wanted the job!

Hey! We alternative folks have been paying out-of-pocket for decades! Man, I've spent a fortune on health foods and natural practitioners!

Not you! Actually, I do find many that are willing to pay for their own tests. But I think in terms of the general population they are few and far between. It seems like most people think that "good" things should be free.

Sure. But the problem is that we're all being exposed to extremely high levels of toxicity on a daily basis. We can't escape it. It's in the air we breathe, it's on the foods we eat, it's in dental fillings...

Right. I'm not saying it is a great idea to increase the toxic burden. Just that the body is designed to handle a large amount of toxicity that it just normally a part of life. For example, all of the bodies steroid hormone have toxic forms that need to be eliminated. Even the oxygen we breathe is "toxic" in the sense that it is oxidizing to the body. Which is why we need to take in other elements to balance that out.

Respectfully, that sounds like the very type of oversimplification you have been railing against.

Sorry, I didn't mean in all cases. The broader point is that some people go through great pains to live in a "toxin-free" bubble and still end up sick, or don't improve if they already are. In these cases we might find that they have genetic differences causing impairment of one or several detox pathways in the liver. Which explains to some degree why they were so sensitive to tobacco smoke, or alcohol, or medications, or whatever, in the first place.

How can the toxins that are produced within possibly be separated from the toxins the body has been exposed to externally?

Well, typically they are different. But not in all cases. This is why the body tends to have a more difficult time with man-made toxins to which it is not accustomed. But typically it still does a pretty good job. The detox pathways are generic enough to be applied to most things coming in from the outside.

Who on this planet can say they have never been exposed to the toxic air, pesticides, etc.?

Well, nobody. What I am getting at is- even if we lived in a world free from man-made toxins and pollutants, people would still be exposed to a massive amount of substances that are toxic to the body, just through the normal processes of living.

Some are canaries in the coal mine. I know a lady who has acute reactions to EMF's. She gets very very ill if she's around a computer or cell tower.

But I would see her sensitivity to EMF as a symptom. I would wonder why the electromagnetic field of her body is not powerful enough to mitigate the effects of the negative external fields.

Interesting idea! I've wondered why we have to deal with all these toxins. I mean, take cell phones for example. Such a convenience! Why in the world does it have to harmful?

It seems to be connected to being able to accept the negative and destructive forces present in nature, and to some degree put them to positive use. I offer the image of Asclepius, the Healer, which I believe to be a Greek representation of Imhotep- the first known physician and contactee of Ra:

Here you see that the healer holds the snake in his hands. The snake represents the destructive forces of the universe. Interestingly, the constellation of Ophiuchus, which is the representation of Asclepius/Imhotep in the sky located opposite from Orion.

Of other interesting notes is that Ophiuchus and Orion are both constellations where scientists have recently confirmed the presence of oxygen. Also, not too long ago a diamond crystalline planet orbiting a quasar was found in this region. It "just so happens" to be located precisely where the serpent disappears behind Imhotep's body. I documented this in Diamond Planet Discovered In Ophiuchus/Serpens
and further note that an alignment of the Sun with the diamond planet in Ophiuchus starts today and reaches its culmination on Monday 12/12.

You're getting into the question of why there are 2 paths in the first place. Each has their role.

Indeed.

That's an interesting question. Are you suggesting that rats, as a species, have evolved in the last decade or century?

Why not? If so, they seem to be evolving more rapidly than we humans!

Also, I will admit to having eaten jungle rat a couple of times when it was served to me in the Amazon. You're not missing out.

[Monica]

Monica, WOW, on the rat observations.

Yeah really amazing!

Note: This entire post has been certified Safe for Oceania!

Here are more:

Pigs Outwit Computers

Mother hens feel empathy for their chicks

Introducing Superpig!

Sue, an amazing six month old (male) pig, is charming the world’s media with his intelligence and abilities. He noticed that the family dogs received treats while they were being trained on a dog agility course and he started to copy them!

Sue lives at a UK animal centre, where the owner is quoted as saying:
“He certainly does a dog agility course without any trouble. He twists and turns in both directions, he gives his trotter and he does cones, the tunnel and ramps. Everybody is always amazed, but personally I’m not because I have kept pigs for years and I know they really want to learn.”

Study: Chickens Think About Future

Chickens do not just live in the present, but can anticipate the future and demonstrate self-control, something previously attributed only to humans and other primates, according to a recent study.
The finding suggests that domestic fowl, Gallus gallus domesticus, are intelligent creatures that might worry.
"An animal with no awareness of 'later' may not be able to predict the end of an unpleasant experience, such as pain, rendering it (the pain) all-encompassing," said Siobhan Abeyesinghe, lead author of the study.
"On the other hand, an animal that can anticipate an event might benefit from cues to aid prediction, but may also be capable of expectations rendering it vulnerable to thwarting, frustration and pre-emptive anxiety."
She added, "The types of mental ability the animal possesses therefore dictate how they should best be managed and what we might be able to do to minimize psychological stress."...
It remains unclear what exactly goes on in the minds of chickens, which are raised at a rate of 40 billion birds per year to satisfy human consumption demands. Abeyesinghe, however, did say, "They probably show more cognitive ability than people would generally credit them with."

Chickens Aren't Stupid!

Chickens are generally regarded as dumb cluckers, but it seems the smart ones are as cunning as humans.

A study by Macquarie University’s Dr K-lynn Smith and Professor Chris Evans portrays chickens as social and intelligent creatures that adjust to what they say, depending on who is listening.

The research has won the pair one of this year’s Eureka prizes, awarded for excellence in science by the Australian Museum.

Dr Smith says chickens, living in an environment where they compete for food, shelter and mates, can become as cunning as humans.
...The study has won the 2010 Voiceless Eureka Prize for scientific research that contributes to animal protection.

It won because changing people’s perceptions about the intelligence of chickens is vital to building a consensus for ending factory farming, Australian Museum director Frank Howarth said.

The research is included in a range of international textbooks and has recently become part of the curriculum for secondary students in the UK.

And, the best of all:

Pigs Smarter Than Dogs....and Even Many Chimps! <<== MUST SEE!!!


And this one too:

One Lucky Piggie!

[BrownEye]

I mean, take cell phones for example. Such a convenience! Why in the world does it have to harmful?

It is harmful as a result of the specific frequencies chosen. There is a mandate that specifies everything operating on electricity must run at 60hz.. Not too far off from the same mandate of all music played at 440hz. For what reasons? The effect it has on the human. The same underlying reason/meaning applies to the specific foods chosen to be mass produced and subsidized. None of this is accidental. We all just take it for granted because we grew up with it and it is what they teach us in school and we end up in a pattern of belief in this reality.

The growing or waking up is more blunt when we can step outside of the structure and see it from the outside.

Some are canaries in the coal mine. I know a lady who has acute reactions to EMF's. She gets very very ill if she's around a computer or cell tower.

But I would see her sensitivity to EMF as a symptom. I would wonder why the electromagnetic field of her body is not powerful enough to mitigate the effects of the negative external fields.

You mean it is a symptom of EMF. It is entirely normal to feel something when standing within a energy field that is killing off your cells, or on a different level, killing you. What is not normal is the average joe that is numb from the brain down, to any form of attack on a cellular level. The average joe will not notice symptoms until it has fully manifested as a malignant entity taking over a portion of the body, and some wont even notice that. Some actually need to be told it is happening by somebody else.

[_X7]

I suppose each of us can find the satisfactions of well being through our lifestyle choices. I simply studied the better sounding rationals and researches, which could fit in my ear and life. Keep it simple and food based as possible. I like supplements here and there but always search for equivalents within foods, herbs, spices. The surroundings, like home and especially the garden or wilds, also can add a big favorable impression on well being. The struggle for human-energizing has always been the largest effect of all visible effects in the occupied world. If not also those alledged payments made off planet, so generalized in rumors spread around the web.

The plain old fashioned 60 hz (or cycles per second) bears evidence of Tesla's origination of that frequency choice. Non American power grids chose 50 hz. I almost recall Tesla's writing about his selection of 60 cycles and his numeric preferences of 3s, 6s and 9s. That said, indeed we certainly do have "dirty power" lines today. Noise added by countless sources out there on the grid. This noisy modulation of the 60 hz baseline would seem arguably a significant loss in value, to rate payers. Where it can carry very strange modulations everywhere, especially into homes. Where the modulating portion simply radiates off into homes as unnoticeable levels of heat and also noise of strange, unrecognized qualities. Cell phone risk factors are significantly removed, if people use ear tubes or else external antennas, (almost unheard of anymore). In any case, it is the transmission-radiation which effects humans, (according to researches and allegations as well). We also hear claims that as long as a cell phone has a battery installed, it constantly broadcasts signals, most likely with unloving effects. Newer laptops or mobile devices all probably include this added aspect. Such that, in order to rebalance, one possibly has to get away from industrialized noises to gasp a little fresh air, water, sun, etc... I let other career paths slip me by while adhering to healthy environments, despite under employment. Perhaps fortunate for me, was my fascination with the skills like dessert mechanics...

Most of all for me, for decades passing and also as one element of the Ra material besides, is the notion of implimenting harmonizing lifestyle adjustments. It isn't like "instant nirvana", hah, but rather like formulating a sand-box-model of 4d. To better gravitate increasingly towards better days ahead, timelessly. x7

[BrownEye]

The struggle for human-energizing has always been the largest effect of all visible effects in the occupied world.

Isn't it one of our largest catalysts by design? I guess that means it is also one of our biggest choices.

The plain old fashioned 60 hz (or cycles per second) bears evidence of Tesla's origination of that frequency choice.

This is what we are taught, not necessarily the truth. 60hz was chosen after Tesla was long gone, not because it was his chosen frequency, and quite a higher frequency than what he normally had in use. Other countries still run on 50hz with no background on the origin or reason as to the why. History is so convoluted as a way to keep us in the dark.

[Tenet Nosce]

You mean it is a symptom of EMF. It is entirely normal to feel something when standing within a energy field that is killing off your cells, or on a different level, killing you. What is not normal is the average joe that is numb from the brain down, to any form of attack on a cellular level. The average joe will not notice symptoms until it has fully manifested as a malignant entity taking over a portion of the body, and some wont even notice that. Some actually need to be told it is happening by somebody else.

No, I mean it is a symptom of the body, for the reasons I explained.