The Last Battle

[Cyan]

Whoa!!! I don't belong in that list!

Note to Cyan: Apparently there aren't any mods on duty right now. As moderator alumni, I will tell you that this is the 2nd time in as many days you've violated a guideline.

Sexist remarks aren't allowed. Neither is labeling another member a negative association like Luciferian.

I would appreciate it if you would remove both offensive comments. (And I would make the same request if it involved someone other than myself...which one of them does.)

Thanks

I dont consider them negative. If you consider it negative instead of part of the whole i will oblidge.

The other part was started by you

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Hey Cyan, I enjoyed your post. However, it is clear that your perception of lucifer is drastically different from others.

At the same time, it is funny that you manifested the reaction to your 'answer' that you did. Especially considering that in the same post you said you felt as though you should be doing something other than answering questions.

This dance of the higher selves is fun to witness.

Love and light

Indeed, Most arguments stem from and arise from differences in perceptions of objects being referred to.

Example.

In my culture, the phrase "I may disagree with you but fight to the death for your right to say what you believe" is the reality of things. That is why, it is, at times, hard to differentiate what is accepted and what is not. It is intereting that others can comment on things that they perceive as positive (almost always extroverted statements such as *you obviously need a hug*) which is a statement of the interior conditions of the other poster without approval. But. When saying something such as *you obviously have a scientific personality and love to question and organize things according to left brain paradigms and build hierarchies of power around that such as forum structures, you do not need a hug, but you may need a wrench* you get a different reaction entirely, even though, to be technical, both are the same statement. In that they comment on the internal processes of a different poster without permission. But, if the shoe of being offended fits, wear it.

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Whoa!!! I don't belong in that list!

Note to Cyan: Apparently there aren't any mods on duty right now. As moderator alumni, I will tell you that this is the 2nd time in as many days you've violated a guideline.

Sexist remarks aren't allowed. Neither is labeling another member a negative association like Luciferian.

I would appreciate it if you would remove both offensive comments. (And I would make the same request if it involved someone other than myself...which one of them does.)

Thanks

Monica, in my personal opinion, I don't think Cyan violated any guidelines with that post.

What he said was:

In my view, the best examples of Lucifer energies, as i perceive them here are Zen, Me, Shin'ar, Monica, off the top of my head.

Regardless of how tactful it may or may not be to attempt to communicate one's subjective perceptions of the spiritual identities of other members... (remember we are behind the veil!)

There is nothing inherently disrespectful to what Cyan said, in my opinion (not speaking for the whole moderator team). Lucifer is just an identity. How one reacts to another's subjective perception of other-self as that identity depends on the biases one holds towards that identity. Of course it's true that Lucifer is negatively polarized (before the mid 6th density point), it's far different than name calling - calling someone STS for example.

It also depends on Cyan's intentions. Because he said "In my view", this leads me to believe he's sharing his subjective perception, rather than labeling another member which would be name calling. One could switch out the identity he mentioned for any other identity, and the reactions received would be across the spectrum (as they could be for even the one identity).

Absolutely a Subjective perception, since it is the only way I can have anything remotely resembling sanity in regards to my environment. Also, lucifer isnt STS, lucifer is beyond 6.5 since its an archtype for the most part. Thats why no one can "be it" they can only "represent it in the situation at hand", the person i know is very close to "it", close enough to segway seamlessly into it but still is not "it" and so on. And how often you slide into representing that archtype is your resonance/affinity for that archtype.

I will list public figures that, according to my subjective view, are "resonant with" the principles of "it" in this case.

Hawkings (likes to question already existing scientific paradigms and build his own, which ends up working better and causing a great deal of embarresment to the other scientists)
Darwin (likes to not believe in "all happened in a day" and goes around on a ship collecting, cataloging, and killing things so that we'll have a more clear understanding of the various paths of evolution)
Washington (likes to believe that King and God should not rule, in a hierarchical manner, and seeks to overthrow it)
hmm....

I wonder who else.

Well, let me put the opposite here as well, those who resonate with Jahweh "principle":

The Pope (Belives that all are best served by a hierarchy that decides a common ground on which god apparently agrees upon)
Michael Jackson (Song "Make it a better place, for you and for me" is a clear indication of your need to serve a specific agena of improvement for all, but as you can not know what the all wants, only what you want, its a clear Jahweh principle of "just make it better somehow")
Most Channelers but not all (Like to believe that they are making the world a better place by acting in the service of others, sometimes works, sometimes doesnt, but the method chosen is most often congurent with the idea of an exterior hierarchy that protects to some extent due to the helpful nature of your work)

Etc. Etc etc.

Now. This should, perhaps, clarify a little bit what I perceive as "It" and why such a topic of so difficult to discuss. As people do not, as i perceive it, generally like to dissect both the behavior AND the consequences of that behavior into an assesment of what resonances are felt, they usually only go for the "what was felt would happen" and not the "what actually happened" because what actually happened is heinously difficult to analyze with any certainty due to its entirely subjective (changes if you think things about your actions) nature.

If your analysis of the consequences of your actions changes as you analyze the consequences of your actions, it is maddedningly tempting to throw hands up in the air and just go "enough already" and start doing something else, but, the discernment and analysis over long periods of times is neccesary to reveal both archtypes. The archtype of "what I hope I accomplish" and the archtype of "what I actually do".

Most often, they are "I hope I am the hero" but in reality "I am the lucifer archtype" because. That is the way it goes. Jahweh archtype builds the structure the next generation of Lucifer archtypes tear down and destroy and try to build a new one. But at some point along the process, the lucifer archtype usually starts to vanish as all information is contained and catalogued already and thats when the difficult part of the process tends to start, noticing that its been used, realizing how long its been used, and slowly accepting that is used, it has been used for a loving reason, and equally lovingly letting it go.

I hope this, in a way, clarifies? Or perhaps, since the situation is flowing in light and clarification, murkies it up for easier looking. Too bright a clarification can hurt the eyes like looking into a superbright light.

to all

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Even if my name wasn't on that list, I would consider labeling any of our members "the heartless inquisitive scientists who's heart is in the result that lies beyond this life" most definitely in the category disrespectful.

*hug*

Let me hopefully put some of this to rest.

I consider myself that, and I consider that the much respected deceased Don is a great example of the seeker scientist. He was, until the end, as much as I have heard of and understand the story, a seeker that was determined to do what ever was he felt was right even if it ended badly. Such determination and risk taking in the face of pressure from everyone around and culminating in the way it did, that Don did appear later and say everything went exactly as it was meant to go, is the classical example of the L energies.

Martyrs dont martyr themselves if there is no one to martyr for. But, those who are studying a phenomena may martyr themselves for the knowledge of how that phenomena works.

I will not comment on the deceased more than to comment that he was, perhaps, one of the most determined and skilled scientists I have read and despite not always asking the right or appropriate questions, I have great respect for the sacrifices and the path that he has taken.

But that does not alter my subjective understanding that within the Ra channeling experiment, he played the part of the questioner, that is to say, the part of the one that tears down all structures and seeks to impose his own through understanding.

Lucifer does NOT = the devil or STS or Satan. It belongs to the tree of destruction much like surgery does, but does not compose the entirety of the tree of destruction like STS does, willful harm like the devil/satan archtypes do.

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For my understanding of the concept of Lucifer, I direct you to this post,

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4276

where much was discussed on the angel and the concepts of good and evil.

I did not take offense from Cyan's thoughts and actually found her to be something similar to my own.

Basically suggesting that Lucifer is a name put on that inner voice which attempts to lead you into temptation.

Yes, in that all curiosity towards objects / phenomena you study is a temptation. Curisoity towards channeling is a temptation, just as much as curiosity towards what kind of bread to choose in your morning food is a temptation.

But in history, and according to much ancient wisdom and many ancient cultures Lucifer is much more than one of the little guys sitting on one of your shoulders.

And It certainly is NOt an evil demon waiting in the shadows to take your soul into damnation.

See Sanat Kumara and The Peacock Angel or the Green Man to learn of Lucifer's alter egos.

From my observations of it, The Peacock Angel and the Green Man are two of, without reading anything more about the books, as ways of perceiving it, entirely accurate.

They for me, immediately resonate with the concepts of Lucifer as I have seen it and interacted with it. Both resemble a hypnotic bug lamp like effect that gets stronger with presence until.

Something that I'm still quite uncofmortable with in Regards to Lucifer is not that it takes out your soul and studies it, but rather, how insitent it is after studying it, that you get it back.

A few times i've interacted with it and its looked at something in "me" its been super insistant to the point of mild annoyance (thank "god" that it was) that I get it back in every drop.

As we are not always the purest of entities with the purest of intents, it is perhaps, the hardest part to get back, especially since it is so gosh darn easy to just build new energies, but THAT is something you may not want to do. Give it your energies to study, refuse to take them back, and spawn a new energyset... In my experience that tends to create side personalities if attempted and tends to disintegrate super quickly as the entity can point out that you are creating a new personality in the situation and therefore, you would need to lie about it to lucifers face and that makes you interesting again, and that you dont want to be if you want to contain your soul in its presence, so. What happens is that you essentially push your cognitive soul onto "it" while you discuss with "it/others" and it pushes it back to you after the dialogue is over, goes home, and scribbles down like crazy all it saw and how it may use it for other projects, what ever it is working on. In the case of for example, Hawkings and the Photons in those experiments, viewing the "soul" of that "photon" without "permission" is classical case of Luciferian approach. If the photon behaves predictably, it escapes easily, and only if it does something super unpredictable do they attempt to capture it and so some additional research on it until it is predictable.

To put a, perhaps, different spin on this. Lucifer is the last entity you see before melding with the all is one because it is the last way to tempt you away from the all is one. You always perceive it as an external, and never as an internal, it is the first external to be born, and the last external to vanish. If the "I" that observes is the god that creates as there is only the "I am" then lucifer is, essentially, the first companion you will have. And only a fool would think thats because it creates, it is, rather, because it is the first logical creation to counterbalance the perfect beauty, harmony and everythingness that you hold within but do not know. So the one you see first has to be, in a way, the exact opposite, the childlike spirit with a determination to study anything regardless of the consquences for personal health of itself or others, as such concepts have not yet been invented.

The adventures of Mark Twain in clayanimation and the scene where they create the castle in that rock that floats in space and Lucifer remarks:

"I can do no evil, for I do not know what it is."

Is both so sad, and so true.

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The point of your math analogy is that you feel like Cyan is indirectly calling or labeling those members STS, if I am understanding correctly.

I believe I can not categorically label anyone either STS or STO as those are situation specific labels.

The only way to gauge STS/STO split in a meaningful way would be to observe the person in question without interruption for the duration of its entire lifetime and then look at the wave of actions like a musical instrument wave and then compare the total number of "mmm" sounds to the total number of "nnn" sounds. And would be entirely irrelevant to me personally but maybe important for someone elses personal evolution.

That is to say. You never get to know or say who is STS/STO until that person is dead, and even then, only if you inhabited that persons head for its entire lifetime. (Edit: I was once told, and took it to heart, that the only meaningful status to put would be "STO-Candidate and STS-Candidate". Because in a specific situation ones actions maybe candidates for STO or STS specific outcomes but such outcomes are not decided yet, similarly to electoral candidates and the day of the election being the day when all the fruit are tallied up and measured, also known as death)

So, you know, i'm sticking away from that topic. You may however say which mask they play according to your perceptions of the masks/archtypes and that, i believe, is much more likely to succeed and have some additional benefits.

"oh, you are the painter archtype" or "oh, you are the music make archtype" as opposed "oh, you serve yourself" (its just one entity) "I know right, what am i looping with this service concept". It would seem, I am looping, the end of my journey, and the evaluation at that end of my journey, for the next part after this life. Hmm. It seem I have a specific archtype who's field I am looping, hmm, is that archtype of.... Perhaps, someone who comes to evaluate me, at the end of my journey, perhaps, someone who i really believe is separate from me, who may be a form of evil, that i may need to overcome, to fight with, have a epic battle on a mountain top etc etc etc.

Anyway. I have a different view on what Lucifer is than most posters, and, while it may cause dissodance on these forums, and for that I apologize and offer my condolences. I believe my view of Lucifer is of higher value than most views presented here, as my view allows more steady defeat of and detachment from from the heartless scientist state. Which is why I place myself in the Lucifer channeling principle quite squarely as well, at times.

It is a difficult thing to measure just how much i would place such a principle on myself, but i know I can pass through it (lucifer) and return (relatively) unharmed. Much like, i imagine, Dante did when "he" wrote the Divina Comedia.

to all on this difficult topic

PS: It has been a while (around a year? Perhaps my perception of time is still skewed so much that I am unable to tell its only half a year?) That I have had to intentionally use all my chakras in some form of synch to be able to maintain the energies required to participate in the discussion on the level where i feel it is appropriate. This is good exercise, the heavy intent i need to put on being honest and standing in my perception is causing me to perspirate the same as if i do a healing (relatively cold room,) hands slowly start to get colder then i start to sweat all along my back and my armpits like crazy even though i'm sitting still and just writing. Its is exquisitely good energy endurance training after such a illness that I had.

I feel I have, for the most part, answered the question here about what do I see as Lucifer, as well as pointing out "who" as was asked. Then removed offending passaged, re-clarified my message and apologized if offence was taken where non was meant. Given highly respected members of society (at least by me) as examples of Lucifer in a positive way, its structure in the tree of STS actions so as to be able to pinpoint the difference between STS and Lucifer and Devil/demons and Satan. All of which are as separates and whole as the christian concept of trinity and one is separated and whole. It is whole on the level that is not relevant to us as more than a study aid, and on the level of separated selves where we still dwell (I would imagine until 6.5 on some level we are separarated) then STS and Lucifer and the demons/devils and Satan are not the same entity, despite them liking others to believe so.

The diplomat and the scientist of "one faction" is not the same as "that factions" warlords and genocidists. And that would be a good point to rememeber, I think.

If there are any specific points to me, i will answer. But i feel it is best I migrate from here to my "how to build your own dragon" thread as it is much more constructive and in line with my higher self.

I thank you all for the lovely discussion. I still havent responded to that other thread carefully as i feel the situation (the ritual in question) is in too much of a state of flux by its designers to warrant commenting on it more than to say that it is something i probably will not participate in.

Once it is closer i will reread all responses carefully and respond in a good way.

These responses are usually only possible once or twice a day, to maybe 3-5 a week until i become exhausted and moody due to the heavy workload.

On a lighter topic. I love that I'm able to now build a mechanical living AI dragon if I have sufficient energy. Such "spells" make my stomach flutter with butterflies in anticipation of future adventures that such a world would allow, that alredy allows me to build my own companion dragon...

If nothing in this resonates with anything but anger, harm and insults then PLEASE


PLEASE


PLEASE


Move along and dont resonate with it, I categorically say I mean no offence with any post in this thread to any member of this forum/channeling group, living or dead. If nothing in these posts resonates with love and light, then let it all fall away and think of it as a 2012 related hickup or some such.