(04-15-2013, 11:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: So you don't believe there can be any positive service towards the creator through defense or preservation of what is loved if it entails harm or death towards another?
It appears that you interpreted my words the opposite of what I intended.
There absolutely can be STO service/polarizing, but it is because of the intention to defend/help/save an other-self, not because of harming an other-self.
In other words, it is the service that is STO polarizing, not the act of violence.
Such a service (defending/saving/helping) may involve violence (defending against an aggressor) but it's an act of self-defense or defense of others, rather than an initiation of violence.
Does this clarify?
(04-15-2013, 11:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Do you believe the killing of an animal to prevent starvation in a group of people is mostly STS?
No.
I believe such an act would rarely be necessary, because if there is food to feed the animal, then that food could be fed directly to the humans instead. If it's a wild animal, it is eating something. A more peaceful, harmonious (and yes, more STO) choice would be to find the foods the animal eats, and give that to the people.
Where animals can find food, humans wouldn't starve.
So, the action probably isn't necessary, but the person killing the animal probably thinks it's necessary. His/her intentions are likely good (to feed the humans) and s/he probably doesn't value the animal's life. Therefore, it's not a consciously STS act, and is probably STO polarizing, because the person's intentions were to help save the humans.
On the other hand, if the person understands that there is plenty of vegetation to feed the starving people, but chooses instead to kill an animal because s/he enjoys the spilling of blood or the thrill of the kill, then it would be STS polarizing.
It all depends on the motivation.
(04-15-2013, 11:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: I see destruction as a defining point of our creation. We actively destroy and then create with our every breathe, thought and movement.
Perhaps actively, but not consciously.
(04-15-2013, 11:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Death can be viewed as unfortunate but can it not be accepted as a part of nature especially in the direction of positive creation?
Death and killing are 2 entirely separate issues.
Death is natural and happens in due time.
Killing is imposing death on another entity.
(04-15-2013, 11:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Additionally, it's very clear Ra is referring to "bellicose actions" which one may define as violence. Ra is not refering to one abstaining from war or helping others through various services during war but engaging in it out of love.
I disagree. Ra states:
Quote:One may find oneself in the situation of war and polarize somewhat towards the positive activating orange, yellow, and then green by heroic, if you may call them this, actions taken to preserve the mind/body/spirit complexes of other-selves.
The key word here is by. The STO polarizing is caused by actions which help others. These actions may or may not include violence. The action isn't important, but the motivation behind the action.
Two people might both commit the same act, but with entirely different actions. The man killing another man out of hatred polarizes STS, whereas the man killing another man in order to save the life of another person, would polarize STO. The action is the same but the motivation is different.
Thus, I think Ra meant that someone helping save another person during war, may polarize STO, because of the action of helping the other-self, not because the action is violent.
The action of helping an other-self is the same, regardless of when, where or how it occurs. Whether in war or not, matters not. Thus, the point Ra was trying to make, in my opinion, is that one can polarize STO, even in such extreme circumstances as war, given the right motivation and intention.
(04-15-2013, 11:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Martyrdom is often seen as an ultimate act of compassion. Martyrdom such as dying in a war in refusal to participate in violence in defense of oneself might be loving but it is often not wise, for greater service can often be made after self-preservation.
Agreed!
(04-15-2013, 11:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Love alone does not give us the power to be of greater service to the creator. Again, we need wisdom to apply it effectively and to do service effectively, with great power.
Wisdom is more advanced and wouldn't be expected of an entity graduating to 4D. A child isn't expected to understand calculus.