Sexual addiction! and Male-Female energy roles/energies

[Monica]

WOW, Pablisimo, what an amazingly awesome, thoughtful, sensitive, and love-filled discourse! Thank you so much for sharing the male perspective with the Light of Love and Wisdom illuminating it!

I agree 100% with everything you said. In fact, when you were describing your relationship with your wife, you might have been describing my own relationship with my husband! (Except we've been at it for 27 years!)

I hope you saved that other post you wrote, and post it for us. I would love to read more of your 'long-winded' posts!

Isn't it amazing how these forums force us to look at any number of complicated issues from multiple angles, perspectives, and dimensions? It's like we don't allow ourselves, collectively, to be shallow or one dimensional about ANY issue that comes along, no matter how taboo. Well, we wanted to understand what Oneness really means, didn't we? What better way than to hear our other-selves speak from an infinite number of paths?

Very true!

That reason, I believe, lies in how men are visually triggered by sexual stimuli. This is not an idle thought, this is a topic I've pondered at great length. I also have come to believe that it is something that most women do not realize about men, and indeed have trouble initially understanding.

This is supported by both modern psychology/physiology as well as by our Confederation friends. I think it was in a Q'uo channeling in which it was stated that the initial sexual attraction had a definite purpose - to start the process of finding a mate. I don't recall whether Q'uo specified a distinction between male and female, but did specify in another channeling that those who are very physically attractive have additional challenges with catalyst related to that physical attraction.

It's common knowledge that, although both genders are aroused by visual stimuli, it's obviously stronger in males (generally speaking). What's that old saying, Women use emotions to get to sex (connect emotionally first), whereas men use sex to get to emotions (connect physically first)...women like romance before sex, whereas men use sex to find romance...something like that. Those are generalizations, of course - I don't like to stereotype - but let's face it, our hormones are different, so there is some truth to these generalizations.

my wife is the ultimate gateway to femininity. In the microcosm that is her, every facet of feminine energy and womanhood exists for me to study and take joy in. She is the Daughter, the Impish Sprite, the Mother, the wise Crone...She is the Goddess personified. When I put myself inside of her, it is like Gaia herself opens to me, and I am humbled and filled with joy.

Taoism states that the woman worships the man as god, and the man worships the woman as goddess. For more on this, see Sexual Secrets by Nik Douglas and Penny Slinger.

While I ultimately know that all women contain that exact same divinity, in my bulky 3D body with the veil in place I just cannot see it nearly so clearly as I can with my beloved wife.

It has been said (forgot who said it) that the reason we mate is to learn devotion to 1 other-self, and if we can't even do that, how can we be one with all other-selves? To start with a partner, extend that love out to family, then to strangers...it's a start.

We have made home made porn together and enjoyed it, and it doesn't feel wrong.

How could it be 'wrong' if it's your own stuff? What bothered me about my (ex-) boyfriend viewing porn was that he'd get aroused by another woman, then expect me to finish the job. That seemed adulterous to me. So it wasn't the nudity or the sex that bothered me, but the fact that he was essentially engaging in sex with someone else.

men are "wired" to be visually triggered by sexual imagery. If I see a woman in a sexually suggestive pose, or wearing very revealing clothing, I CANNOT help but react on a very primal level.

Someday I will ask our elders why they designed it like that. Along with asking about mosquitoes and cockroaches.

Seriously, I think the key word here is primal. It's clearly a lower chakra thing. But then so is physical violence, eh? I wonder if this urge will lessen as we evolve, just as we hope the urge for violence lessens.

Look at how men are more violent than women. This is a statistical fact. There are a lot more male murderers in prison than female murderers. It appears that the male force, left unchecked, tends to run downward and concentrate in the little head instead of the big head, so to speak. It all goes back to operating out of the lower chakras, whether it's violence, aggression, or lust without love.

It behooves us women to have compassion for you men, because we've all been both sexes at different times. So we women really can't get smug, being that we've been men before.

I'm glad you brought up this very important point. I don't see it as a cop-out at all, but as added understanding to help us women be more forgiving and compassionate. At the same time, I think it's important to realize that this anatomical feature is just another layer of catalyst.

Historically, how many acts of violence/domination (rapes etc.) have occurred because this primal urge was allowed free reign? Our barbaric male ancestors didn't know any better. But we do.

I would never dream of blaming my husband for noticing a pretty girl walking by. Although the primal response to visual stimuli isn't generally as strong in women, we still do have it too! I've been known to turn my head if a long-haired bodybuilder walked by! But, as my husband says, "look don't stare." At that moment of spontaneous interest or even arousal, we have a choice. We can choose to feed it, or we can choose to starve it.

We're living in a school for juvenile delinquents, who happen to also be drug addicts. There are many drugs, with loveless sex being but one of them. Being bombarded with sex in tv commercials, movies, billboards, magazines, etc. is like a heroin junkie having heroin offered on every street corner.

Why is this 3D reality this way? We created it! It's up to us to change it. It all starts with each of us, in the choices we make, moment by moment. I'm not saying it's easy. I know women might not understand what men go thru, but we have our own issues. Women struggle with eating disorders more than men, and both sexes struggle with drugs and alcoholism. It's all the same, essentially. All require recognition of the strength of the addiction, and the moment-by-moment choice to love it, accept it, forgive it, and ultimately transform it.

Primal or not, I believe that urge you describe, that automatic response to visual stimuli, is nothing more than energy being stuck in the lower chakras. Thus, it can be harnessed, channeled, and redirected. It is true that it's more difficult for men, but then again, men get to pee standing up! And women have to endure the pain of childbirth! So it all sort of balances out in the end.

Two monks were travelling from one monastery to another.. They were celibate monks, even not allowed a direct gaze at women. After long walk, they came to a river, which they had to cross. The river was flooded and there was no way that they would
get across without getting wet. One lady was also at the banks of river, wanting to cross.. Monks decided to cross the river by walking thorough the shallow part of the river, Since the lady also needed to get on the other bank, one of the monk without much ado, carried her on his shoulders, and soon they reached the other bank, where he set her down.. The lady went her way and the two monks continued their walk in silence. The other monk was really upset, finding the other monks act disturbing. As per their injunctions, they were not allowed to look at the woman, forget touching and the other monk carried her across the river!!

After some time the confused monk couldn?t stand the thought and asked other monk? "We are not allowed to look at other women, not touch them.. but you carried a woman across the river?!" The other monk had a smile on his lips when he replied "I put her down when I crossed the river, are you still carrying her?!"

There have been a few times where I had to have a long involved business conversation with an extremely attractive woman wearing very inappropriate clothing. Those times were difficult, it is so hard to concentrate and remember NOT to look at certain parts of her. Keep eyes focused, don't leer, ack pay attention to what she's saying so you can respond intelligently, etc.

Now who's being the dominating/manipulative one? It's outrageous when women intentionally act/dress provocatively in an inappropriate setting, then blame the man for reacting. To a point. On the other hand, why shouldn't women be free to look and feel sexy? Why must they cover up their sexuality? Who gets to decide what is appropriate and what isn't? And should men be expected to control their impulses and not stare? Is it sexual harassment when they haven't perfected the art of looking away, as you have?

These are difficult questions. We've all heard of those cases in which rape victims were blamed for 'tempting' the rapist by wearing shorts, etc. Say, what?? Why should a woman be victimized just for being a woman?

I don't know the answers to these questions. Why are we wired this way? All I know is that it's all catalyst.

And this isn't even porn and I'm well fulfilled sexually!

This sheds a lot of light on all those men who aren't fulfilled sexually, and have easy access to porn...many of whom started the habit at an early age, and in fact were exposed to porn before real live girls.

When I was younger, I had a neighbor who was extraordinarily beautiful. Sizzling hot and one I definitely reacted around. Well, she happened to be Muslim but did not cover her hair and wore skimpy outfits. At some point, her religious faith deepend and she started wearing a hijab (Muslim headscarf to cover the hair) and wearing very loose, modest clothing. I remember how stunned I was the first time that I saw her like that! It was as if she had been de-sexualized for me. That is, without seeing her curves or her hair, my body no longer reacted to her feminine energy due to visual triggers! ...it was certainly an odd experience seeing my wife wearing a hijab and western, but very loose desert clothes. I have to say that while there I had less sexual thoughts and cravings. My wife was still beautiful and sweet and kind and radiated love and all those other things I usually see in her....but with the visual elements of her femininity removed, I just didn't have the same subtle sexual reactions to her during the day that I usually do. In the evenings, it all would come rushing back as she uncovered her hair and changed into skimpier clothing. All of that was further confirmation for me that men just react strongly to visual sexual stimuli.

This opens up a whole 'nother issue.

What about women who aren't physically beautiful?

I'm glad you brought up the issue of men's primal urges and how difficult it is to control them. I agree that it can be helpful for women to understand that.

Likewise, I now invite you boys to stretch your mind and hearts and try to understand what it's like for us women.

Women are expected to be pretty. If you men are having a difficult time being bombarded with T&A, think about what's it like for us women, to be constantly compared to the most beautiful, the most slender, among us. Then, these already exceptionally beautiful specimens have gotten silicone in their lips, their breasts artificially enlarged to the point that they're abnormally disproportionate to their tiny waists...being models, they have access to the finest clothing and makeup...and then the photos are airbrushed to cover up any imperfections. And of course none are over age 25! Their breasts haven't started to droop yet, they don't yet have stretch marks or flabby thighs...they are, essentially, completely unrealistic.

How do you suppose that makes us 'normal' women feel? To have our men gawking at such perfect creatures? Such physical perfection that will never be achievable by most women?

And what about women who may have been beautiful in their youth, but got disfigured, whether by age, accident, illness, weight gain, etc.? What if they lost their hair to chemo, their breasts to mastectomy?

It's hard enough to live up the male ideal of physical perfection for even the prettiest among us (even models have their hangups, unbelievably), but women who weren't blessed with beauty, or who lost their beauty, have additional challenges in loving and accepting themselves.

If men could understand this, it might help them to be more sensitive to their lovers/wives/mates. I once had a boyfriend tell me he 'preferred' a certain shade of skin on a certain area of the body. ??? As if that was something I could control! It was deeply hurtful and insensitive. In contrast, my husband goes out of his way to tell me how much he loves and appreciates me, and how beautiful I am to him, even though I don't look like I did when we got married, and I certainly can no longer wear my old size 5 clothes! I know full well that I no longer turn heads the way I once did, but it doesn't matter, because I know my man appreciates me, and that's all that matters to me! But women whose men are constantly drooling over more beautiful women don't have that reassurance. I know because I experienced it, and it was really awful.

I think that if, in general, women could understand more consciously what it is like to be sexually wired in such a visual way, that they would be more compassionate and understanding of the "male dilemma"

Agreed. I think this entire discussion is very beneficial, for all of us, to have more compassion...to think about the struggles our mate has instead of just feeling hurt. By viewing the situation from our mate's perspective, it can help to climb out of that hurt and feel forgiveness.

that is positive female tolerance of the male condition not submission to degradation. Just as, in all fairness, men have to tolerate some not so evolved qualities in women.

Agreed!

if men are so naturally, powerfully attracted to visual sexual stimulus, one can certainly see how the siren call of pornography could begin to overwhelm him with addiction. What a difficult pitfall! It is essentially raw, pure, visual sexual stimuli.

Exactly!!! And that, I think, is the crux of the matter. If we could view this as an addiction, then it could be treated as such, with hope for managing it and overcoming it, just as one would any other addiction. But as long as society says, Boys will be boys, then nothing ever gets done about it.

Thank you for posting this quote.

You are quite welcome!

It was one that blew me away when I first read it. When my wife has an orgasm during sex, I have noticed this almost instant feeling as if a blanket of love and emotion descended on me. I actually feel more in touch with my feelings and connected... almost feminine. When I have an orgasm during sex, she seems to be energized. Sometimes after the glow she literally jumps up and claps her hands and says "OOoo! I love you!! Now let's go make some tea!/go for a walk/do it again" or some other such thing, while I am there, drained somewhat of physical energy but radiating love and feeling very emotional and in touch with earth.

Oh, that is so funny! My hubby and I joke about the very same thing! We call it 'being overcome by all that yin essence (or yang essence).'

When Ra explained how the energy exchange works during sex, it was like "Ahhh! So that's what's going on!". I suspect it goes even further in that it helps balance male & female energies within you. I am giving maleness and receiving femaleness, we are balancing our energies and unifying gender.

Exactly!

sex can be one-sided or masturbatory and not necessarily STS or even "just" masturbation.

I apologize for my poor choice of words in that sentence. When I said masturbation what I really meant was jerking off. Not masturbation as an act of self-love. I clarified this in a later post, that masturbation isn't necessarily 'just' confined to the lower chakras.

Sometimes, sex can be a kind of service of love from one partner to another. Oral sex is probably the best example. One partner can give it to the other as a gesture of love.. to make the other feel good and enjoy pleasure. They may not have an orgasm themselves but the whole point is to serve the partner.

Absolutely!!!

Just because sex has a HIGHER Potential to exchange energy doesn't mean that other, even baser uses of it can't still be loving and worthwhile as well.

Absolutely!!!

I believe most men have a higher sex drive than women, no doubt due in part to the constant visual sexual stimuli, and it seems unrealistic to expect every sexual interchange to result in the highest energy transfer.

I definitely agree!

IThe person doing the "giving" is performing an STO act by wanting to relieve the pressure or give pleasure to their partner, but the person receiving it is not objectifying, dominating, or masturbating in/on the other, but rather is receiving a loving service in true gratitude. While not much energy is exchanged here, I believe that overall positive polarity will increase over time for both people.

Agreed! Thank you for further clarifying what I was attempting to convey.

Well guys, sorry for the super long post.

Nothing to apologize for! You have made a lot of worthwhile and insightful comments! Thanks for sharing and I hope you share more!

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It has been only recently that men have been held accountable for their actions... in many places male arousal is considered to be a woman's fault... It is interesting is it not... Blaming the other. In some places, "I couldn't help myself she is so__________. And that's why I did ________________. is considered to be a real reason. Once again, this is about power over another.

I touched on this in my previous post. This is so very true. How many rape victims never reported the rape because, until recently (and it still happens now, unfortunately), the woman was often blamed for 'tempting' the man...just by being a woman!

I think it's important to note, though, that, although in most cases it's the man abusing the woman, certainly there are cases in which the woman intentionally wields her own feminine power to ensnare the man. It can work both ways!

Porn is this and Sex Magic is this. And the objectifying women is this.

Can you clarify this please?

As a woman my body is not for your pleasure. If I choose I share with another. It is not for you to have or take. This herein is where PORN is. The taking. Have you ever considered some of that which you watch is women who are ENSLAVED-- Sold to the highest bidder and that which you watch is a rape scene? How far of a leap is it for you to jump to kiddie Porn... oh she is only twelve I can't help myself because she is just so... fill in the blank. It's her fault for being so fill in the blank.

Very true! That's what I meant by look at the face of the woman in the video...she is a real person! Who probably is doing this as an act of desperation...or worse, may even be enslaved.

Do you realize the largest way station for slavery in the world is in Ohio and Misssori and North Carolina? Have you ever thought that one of those women could be your sister or child?

Wow, I didn't know that! I would have thought Thailand or something...That is really disturbing.

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Perhaps I should continue to use these forums as a way to better understand the STO path from others without speaking as much.

Please don't!!! I assure you, we can handle a bit of disagreement here! In fact, unlike all other forums I've ever participated in, Bring4th is known for our harmonious disagreement! Many of us marvel at how respectfully and politely we are able to disagree! You needn't feel that you can't voice your opinions just because someone disagrees with you! I hope that you continue to share, because you have much of value to say!

There is great wisdom in silence

True, for the person being silent. But all of us would miss out on you sharing that wisdom!