Sexual addiction! and Male-Female energy roles/energies

[Pablísimo]

WOW, Pablisimo, what an amazingly awesome, thoughtful, sensitive, and love-filled discourse! Thank you so much for sharing the male perspective with the Light of Love and Wisdom illuminating it!

Hi Monica. Thank you for the warm, kind words!! I'm really glad you appreciated the post, because I regretted posting it, initially.

For some reason, I really felt compelled to share it with you specifically. When I read your earlier long post, it felt like you were being very real and were trying to explain your perspective on an issue you had obviously done a great deal of soul-searching about. As I said earlier, porn for me was never really much of a big issue. I wrote it off as a silly thing to think about, obsess over, or argue about, but I realize now after reading this thread that I should have contemplated it much more deeply. Over the years, I have given a great deal of thought to the visual wiring of men and the catalyst that this brings with it. I had a few conversations with women on related topics over the years, but never, ever heard a balanced, nuanced feminine perspective from anyone. I also never really shared my own male views clearly.

So, even though the topic was not personally important to me, the perspective you shared was incredibly feminine, insightful, and non-judgmental and it forced me to think about the topic in a way that was alien to me, but mind-expanding. I thought to myself, now here is a female who is trying to SHARE her perspective and EXPLAIN what and why she feels in a non-accusatory fashion and with a Law of One grounding to boot.

This led me to contemplate these incredible forums and reflect on how difficult it must have been for Biu & Lavazzo to share their stories and how each subsequent post just added to the overall Gestalt picture that was forming of the topic. I began to feel Oneness and kinship with all of these great souls sharing their Light and perspectives. It forced me to think about things that are not deeply personally relevant, but yet view it from a variety of angles and perspectives. We can learn so much more when we see it through so many eyes. I was overwhelmed with the idea that this must be a tiny glimpse into how a social memory complex grows in the early stages of harmonization. I guess I felt like I was communing with my people, if that makes sense.

Because I have thought so hard on the visual stimuli topic and felt it was part of the key to understanding porn addiction, and male reactions in general, I thought it could help those struggling with porn (and those affected by it) with more compassion for self and others. Understanding is the ultimate key to forgiveness, in my view. That made me want to share my thoughts, but what pushed me to register for an account and actually post was your sharing. I thought to myself that if we had a woman here so willing to share an honest, open female perspective that I almost had a DUTY to reciprocate and share what I hoped to be its male counterpart.

Taoism states that the woman worships the man as god, and the man worships the woman as goddess. For more on this, see Sexual Secrets by Nik Douglas and Penny Slinger.

Interesting concept. I have read the Tao Te Ching but I must've overlooked the topics dealing with sexuality. I will check out that book, thank you for the recommendation.

It has been said (forgot who said it) that the reason we mate is to learn devotion to 1 other-self, and if we can't even do that, how can we be one with all other-selves? To start with a partner, extend that love out to family, then to strangers...it's a start.

Oh how true!!

How could it be 'wrong' if it's your own stuff? What bothered me about my (ex-) boyfriend viewing porn was that he'd get aroused by another woman, then expect me to finish the job. That seemed adulterous to me. So it wasn't the nudity or the sex that bothered me, but the fact that he was essentially engaging in sex with someone else.

You know, I see your point, I really do. I have heard friends have arguments with their mates about this topic, but thought it was jealousy-based since, as far as I was concerned, men couldn't help being turned on by attractive women due to visual wiring but they COULD control whether to be faithful or not, to act on their urges. I really just never thought of it like mental adultery before and a violation of intimacy. Thank you for sharing that insight.

Seriously, I think the key word here is primal. It's clearly a lower chakra thing. But then so is physical violence, eh? I wonder if this urge will lessen as we evolve, just as we hope the urge for violence lessens.

I agree with you that it is indeed primal. I find it, like so many other things about 3d life to be a pitfall on the one hand but a possible vehicle for further growth on the other. Ah, the paradox of this existence.

Someday I will ask our elders why they designed it like that. Along with asking about mosquitoes and cockroaches.

In my own particular path, I've experienced an unusually large amount of catalyst involving the animal kingdom. Including cockroaches & mosquitoes, interestingly enough! Maybe I'll mention some of it the next time an animal or vegetarian type topic comes up.

I'm glad you brought up this very important point. I don't see it as a cop-out at all, but as added understanding to help us women be more forgiving and compassionate. At the same time, I think it's important to realize that this anatomical feature is just another layer of catalyst.

It makes me feel so good that you received the point in the light I intended it. And I agree it is just another layer of catalyst, for BOTH sexes.

I would never dream of blaming my husband for noticing a pretty girl walking by. Although the primal response to visual stimuli isn't generally as strong in women, we still do have it too! I've been known to turn my head if a long-haired bodybuilder walked by! But, as my husband says, "look don't stare." At that moment of spontaneous interest or even arousal, we have a choice. We can choose to feed it, or we can choose to starve it.

That is the key: we have a choice on whether to feed that lower chakra, primal urge or balance the feelings and elevate ourselves.

I remember having an argument with a close female relative years ago while walking through a store. She was extremely attractive and wearing fishnet sockings, a micro mini skirt, and a low cut, partially see-through tanktop (she was well endowed). She gestured to some guys drooling at her and leering and said "You see what I mean, men are such utter pigs and so disrespectful all the time!". I argued that perhaps if she didn't advertise her wares so loudly that she would attract less attention. She made the (valid) point that she should be able to wear whatever she likes and feel sexy -- it is not her problem if men can't control themselves. While I agreed with her on her rights, I felt angry that she just could not see how dressing in a provocative way made the nice guys uncomfortable and brought out the worst in the not so nice guys. My basic, unevolved view of it was "Either stop dressing like a slut or stop complaining about how crass men are!".

I realize that thoughts like those are a slippery slope to what you were talking about with some men using a woman's appearance as a way to JUSTIFY rape. Like she was asking for it or something, which is clearly insane. But yet I can't help but feel that there is some basic validity to the thought that an enlightened woman should at least be mindful of the way men are visually wired and make some practical adjustments.

We're living in a school for juvenile delinquents, who happen to also be drug addicts. There are many drugs, with loveless sex being but one of them. Being bombarded with sex in tv commercials, movies, billboards, magazines, etc. is like a heroin junkie having heroin offered on every street corner.

That is a good way to put it. I lived in a house with a bunch of college-age males when I was about 14-16 and some of my roommates would actually sit around and watch porn regularly. I never really joined in because I saw it as nothing but frustration. Why would I want to allow myself to get all worked up and hot and bothered when I wasn't in an appropriate setting and had no partner? That would just leave me unfulfilled and craving. I preferred to save my passion for actual women at appropriate times and I couldn't really see why these guys who I knew had sexual relationships would waste their time and energy watching dirty videos. I mean, I was interested in light pornography before I started having relationships with real girls, but after I started dating, I completely lost interest in it. It honestly never occurred to me that these guys had an addiction. I think I actually might have been doing that "boys will be boys" thing and shaking my head just like some women do instead of recognizing it for what it was.

[i]Two monks were travelling from one monastery to another.. They were celibate monks, even not allowed a direct gaze at women. After long walk, they came to a river, which they had to cross. The river was flooded and there was no way that they would
get across without getting wet. One lady was also at the banks of river, wanting to cross.. Monks decided to cross the river by walking thorough the shallow part of the river, Since the lady also needed to get on the other bank, one of the monk without much ado, carried her on his shoulders, and soon they reached the other bank, where he set her down.. The lady went her way and the two monks continued their walk in silence. The other monk was really upset, finding the other monks act disturbing. As per their injunctions, they were not allowed to look at the woman, forget touching and the other monk carried her across the river!!

After some time the confused monk couldn?t stand the thought and asked other monk? "We are not allowed to look at other women, not touch them.. but you carried a woman across the river?!" The other monk had a smile on his lips when he replied "I put her down when I crossed the river, are you still carrying her?!"

How insightful!! Great story!!!!

Now who's being the dominating/manipulative one? It's outrageous when women intentionally act/dress provocatively in an inappropriate setting, then blame the man for reacting. To a point. On the other hand, why shouldn't women be free to look and feel sexy? Why must they cover up their sexuality? Who gets to decide what is appropriate and what isn't? And should men be expected to control their impulses and not stare? Is it sexual harassment when they haven't perfected the art of looking away, as you have?

These are difficult questions. We've all heard of those cases in which rape victims were blamed for 'tempting' the rapist by wearing shorts, etc. Say, what?? Why should a woman be victimized just for being a woman? I don't know the answers to these questions. Why are we wired this way? All I know is that it's all catalyst.

These statements nicely encapsulate the complexity of the situation. It's just not black and white, or simple. This is a nuanced, complex topic and going to extremes either direction is not the solution.

"All I know is that it's all catalyst. "
.... I'll raise my cup to that!

Likewise, I now invite you boys to stretch your mind and hearts and try to understand what it's like for us women.

Women are expected to be pretty. If you men are having a difficult time being bombarded with T&A, think about what's it like for us women, to be constantly compared to the most beautiful, the most slender, among us. Then, these already exceptionally beautiful specimens have gotten silicone in their lips, their breasts artificially enlarged to the point that they're abnormally disproportionate to their tiny waists...being models, they have access to the finest clothing and makeup...and then the photos are airbrushed to cover up any imperfections. And of course none are over age 25! Their breasts haven't started to droop yet, they don't yet have stretch marks or flabby thighs...they are, essentially, completely unrealistic.

How do you suppose that makes us 'normal' women feel? To have our men gawking at such perfect creatures? Such physical perfection that will never be achievable by most women?

And what about women who may have been beautiful in their youth, but got disfigured, whether by age, accident, illness, weight gain, etc.? What if they lost their hair to chemo, their breasts to mastectomy?

It's hard enough to live up the male ideal of physical perfection for even the prettiest among us (even models have their hangups, unbelievably), but women who weren't blessed with beauty, or who lost their beauty, have additional challenges in loving and accepting themselves.

If men could understand this, it might help them to be more sensitive to their lovers/wives/mates. I once had a boyfriend tell me he 'preferred' a certain shade of skin on a certain area of the body. ??? As if that was something I could control! It was deeply hurtful and insensitive. In contrast, my husband goes out of his way to tell me how much he loves and appreciates me, and how beautiful I am to him, even though I don't look like I did when we got married, and I certainly can no longer wear my old size 5 clothes! I know full well that I no longer turn heads the way I once did, but it doesn't matter, because I know my man appreciates me, and that's all that matters to me! But women whose men are constantly drooling over more beautiful women don't have that reassurance. I know because I experienced it, and it was really awful.

Monica, thank you once again for this awesome female insight. I never heard the female dilemma explained so clearly. I will have to meditate on this at length.

About 6-7 years ago, quite out of the blue, my wife mentioned to me that she would be willing to get breast implants for me. It shocked me to the core and I had an extremely negative reaction to the suggestion. She and I were friends before becoming lovers and she knew that I used to have a preference for larger breasts, which she reminded me of. While that was technically true, love changes everything. I am (and was) so completely in love with her that she was perfect to me in every way. I didn't and don't wish to change a thing about her physically. And I certainly would never want her to subject herself to something so bad for her health for something so utterly shallow!! I never said anything negative to her about her body and I was a little hurt that she obviously didn't realize how much I adored her and thought that I could be so shallow.

That last bit of your post helped me realize it probably wasn't so much knowing about my old preference that caused her to have those feelings of doubt and inadequacy, it was most likely the same bombardment of sexual imagery and objectification of women that we are blasted with on a daily basis. It may affect me visually but likely affects her emotionally on some level. I spent so much time thinking about that topic..that maybe I wasn't reassuring her enough, that perhaps I had made some idle comment that I couldn't even remember. I never stopped to think about the impact of the physical ideals women are subliminally programmed to live up to in our society. Maybe it had more to do with THAT than anything else. It was such a bizarre thing to come up, I just didn't know what to think. Thank you for sharing that perspective, it is mind-expanding.

I must say again that true love dissolves the physical issues. My wife is 14 years older than me and when we first started dating, she told me she was worried I would look over at her one day and realize just how old she has become and be upset at the mistake I'd made.

Ha! This woman has become more and more and more beautiful to me as the years have gone by. Yes, she ages, but our love has become so intense that she seems more and more perfect, inside and out with every passing year. I'm far more attracted to her now than I was 13 years ago!!

I looked at her just the other day and the sunlight glinted off of a few gray strands of her otherwise dark hair. I imagined her with a full head of silver hair and thought to myself how beautiful that would look on her. In that instant, I realized that she would continue to be my goddess no matter how old she became or how her body changed. I think love transcends physicality. I know, she will one day be a very beautiful "old lady" and I will be proud to stand at her side.

Regardless of one's real attractiveness, a loving committed relationship blinds us to our mate's physical flaws and amplifies their inner and outer beauty.

Agreed. I think this entire discussion is very beneficial, for all of us, to have more compassion...to think about the struggles our mate has instead of just feeling hurt. By viewing the situation from our mate's perspective, it can help to climb out of that hurt and feel forgiveness.

Very well said!!

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Fairyfarmgirl,

Thank you for posting those links!! I read them all, carefully. I honestly had no idea that human trafficking was such a big issue in this day and age. Furthermore, you made me realize the STS aspects of many kinds of pornography. I do believe that some pornography is relatively harmless and that not all women are exploited who participate in it, but the facts are undeniable that some, and probably a large percentage, of pornography is being made with women who are enslaved, whether that is physically or economically.

I clearly was not looking at the pornography topic deep enough. I was thinking about the cheescake girls in the magazines and the bits and pieces of hardcore porn I have seen over the years. Well, there's clearly a whole spectrum of porn and some of the extreme fetish and rape porn borders on the demonic. You are right to feel strongly on this issue, and I deeply thank you for opening my eyes.

I felt bad initially about posting because I thought that I had inadvertently provided an "excuse" for why men like porn and that it infuriated and hurt you, which was not my intent at all. I see you have a more balanced view after all. The only thing else I would say is to urge compassion for those struggling with this addiction. I believe that the addiction itself is a somewhat separate issue to the exploitation the women in some of these films have suffered. I think that your posts in this thread are helpful, if strong. Biu & Lava wouldn't have posted so much on this topic if they didn't clearly want to come to terms with and overcome their addiction.

Nobody argues that crack cocaine is not inherently bad, but the users are victims too and I cannot help but feel compassion for those struggling with addiction. I can't help but see pornography in a similar light.

I have been addicted only one time in my life - to nicotine. There was a time when I was not in control of my use of this substance and felt very powerless. I finally broke that addiction but have never forgotten how powerful it was. When I catch myself being judgmental about addicts of all stripes, I always try to think about what my life would have been like if my 5 year struggle with addiction had been with a substance that hurt others too, like crack or, well, pornography. Let compassion and understanding rein in our hearts, let us support and uphold our brothers (and sisters) struggling with addiction. Never excusing but always forgiving.

Again, thank you for the links and for helping me to experience and contemplate this issue more deeply.

Love to all!