In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

Its personal lifestyle choice. But equating a higher consciousness with that choice is the equivalent of a southern Baptist claiming hellfire is your destiny because you don’t believe the Bible is the literal word of God.

Do you think that is what anyone is doing?

That's not how we intend it. I don't think anyone here has stated that someone can be more spiritual by being a vegetarian. In fact, I know Pablisimo and I, and others, have all gone out of our way to state that we don't consider vegetarianism to be a prerequisite for the STO path. We have acknowledged that many people who are more spiritually evolved than ourselves eat meat.

If we have failed in our endeavor, then I will try again:

It's not about spiritual evolution. The issue is linked to Pablisimo's personal spirituality and to my personal spirituality, but we have stated that we don't consider it a litmus test for others. We have no right to judge others. We are only stating what the issue means to us personally.

It's not about spirituality. It's about compassion. It's about championing the cause on behalf of those who cannot speak up for themselves. It's humanitarian, not necessarily spiritual. It might be spiritual for some. For some of us, there is no distinction. But I know plenty of animal rights activists who are not consciously spiritual. They are doing what they think is right, as an act of compassion.

If this were a project to end human hunger, would it be construed as an attempt to be 'holier than thou' and judge others? Would our efforts to end hunger be interpreted as a religious fundamentalist telling someone they are going to hell?

Both beliefs are personal beliefs…with no way of proving or disproving an effect otherwise.

You're right. There is no way to prove or disprove the spiritual implications of being a vegetarian vs eating animals.

I don't think anyone is trying to do that. We're not trying to prove anything regarding spirituality and diet.

We're only seeking to invite others to consider the suffering of the animals when making their dietary choices. The suffering of animals can indeed be proven...quite conclusively.

Physiologically, humans are omnivores. The structure of our teeth and digestive systems indicate that.

I am surprised by this statement. Would you be able to explain what you mean by this? We don't have fangs like dogs and cats, we lack the strong stomach acids to digest meat, and we have long digestive tracts, in which meat tends to ferment (in contrast to the shorter digestive tracts of carnivorous animals). And, we recoil at the sight of a bloody rabbit, whereas a dog or cat will eagerly tear into it. So I am confused at how our physiology can be used to support the eating of animals.

The creator had to of had that in mind. True herbivores digestive systems are radically different than omnivores.

Can you provide an example of an omnivore?

You are right that our digestive systems are unlike those of herbivores. We're not cows or horses. We don't digest grass.

Our closest physiological relative is the ape/chimp. Our teeth and digestive system are radically different from both dogs and cows, but nearly identical to that of apes. Their natural diet (in the wild) is vegetarian, except for the occasional bug hidden in their leaves and fruit. They eat mostly greens, fruit, nuts, and roots. And the occasional bug.

The difference, I think, is Free Will.

That's a good point. I agree! That's why I don't feel that I must eat the way my ancestors did. Our ancestors had to hunt animals to survive. But we no longer need to do that.

It's been established that everyone has the free will to choose their own diets. No one is disputing that. We're just exploring the reasons for a vegetarian diet, as that is what this thread is about.

I am sensing that some people might be feeling hurt or defensive, and I'd like to reiterate once again that none of us vegetarians have any intention of hurting or judging anyone! I would like to invite those who eat meat to consider our views if you wish, but please don't feel compelled to explain your own choice if you don't want to. No one is trying to win a debate or judge those who disagree. We're just exploring different points of view, for the benefit of all. We can all learn and grow from one another!

I already understand and accept that most of the people here, like most of the people on the planet, choose to eat animals. I don't love them any less! I am genuinely seeking to understand why people choose to eat animals! I am wondering whether they have ever given it much thought, and whether they have ever looked at the animals they are killing. I am wondering whether they have ever considered that maybe it's unnecessary. I am wondering whether it's just something they have always taken for granted. I am wondering if they might make a different choice if they knew that it wasn't necessary. And, I am wondering if there is ever a good reason to inflict suffering when there are alternatives available. In other words, is there any good reason to eat animals, other than simply 'choosing to'? Do we have the right to impose our will on another creature, just because we 'want' to? How is this any different from a slave 'owner' choosing to have a slave? Why is it any different, because it's a human instead of a cow? Why does the cow inherently have no rights? It took a long time, and much effort, for slavery to end in our country (and it still goes on, unfortunately). It took a long time, and much effort, for minorities to get equal rights. I don't want to judge those who eat animals. I would like to invite them, if they have chosen to visit this thread, to consider that the vegetarians are doing the same thing the human rights activists did to end slavery and discrimination. I invite them to seek understanding of our views, rather than feel judged. We're not trying to judge you. We are trying to raise awareness of something we feel as strongly about as our ancestors did about slavery.