Fallen Guru's?

[Diana]

I think every Guru or teacher is a human being that is possible of flaws. I think often the problem is the student who puts the teacher on such a high illusionary pedestal that causes the problem rather than strictly the teachings of the Guru.

I agree with this. If the relationship begins with the idea that the guru is better than others, or higher, it is flawed from that point in the mind of the student. The guru, or teacher, may have had more experience of certain things, but the student does as well in other areas (as all our experiences are unique). No one is better than another, and nothing is better than anything else. To believe so is human egocentric thinking, in my opinion.

A person can learn from virtually anyone or anything. I think the inherent problem with the guru/disciple relationship is that it typically includes adulation of the guru, or putting him/her on the pedestal. This sort of thinking will keep the student dis-empowered, which creates a paradox, as the student purports to learn from the guru to become empowered. But by creating the separation—student and "higher-up" guru—it anchors the student "below" the guru.

The following is an analogy I like, as I have had this conversation about gurus many times, and there is the argument: why NOT follow the guru to another stage of enlightenment since they have already reached it and know the shortest and easiest way?

An experienced guide may know the shortest way through a forest. Many people will follow the guide blindly and reach the other side easily. There are those who want to find their own way. At first glance this seems counterproductive, since following a guide who knows the way would be more logical. The ones who find their own way may listen to other's ideas and opinions and this may enlighten their path, but since they don't give their power over to anyone else, they either consider the advice good for them or not and continue. They eventually get through the forest, and it may have taken them much longer than the guide's path, as the guide had already been through it before. On the other side is a being such as Jesus. When the blind followers see Jesus, they are awed and adulate and put him on a pedestal as they did the guide, who knew what they didn't know. But the ones who forged their own paths meet Jesus and they give each other high fives as equals, and Jesus says, "It's great you made it! So good to see you."