Note to everyone:
I type up most of my posts ahead of time so they're in a form that is what you'd call pedantic so they can be reworked and used in the treatise and curriculum project. More posts to come on this topic.
Thanks for the feedback. This is a tough subject since it seems to be at odds with Ra's bias of just love and light of the OIC. Even so, it's good to challenge your professor once in a while.
I can appreciate both an analytical philosophical and a holistic spiritual account of this subject and others. They are both useful for a future philosophical treatise and curriculum.
I'm focusing on the analytic so I'm going to ask alot of questions in the manner of the Socratic Method and is not meant to badger and offend. The purpose of this method is to gain a better understanding and clarity through dialectic using thesis, antithesis and synthesis.
I'll start with Ooo.
By "Will" are you referring to "Free Will" or some more general Will with both free and deterministic modalities? An example of deterministic will is the will to survive or perhaps just the will to have being as the IUP/AOP suggests of Infinity and Unity.
By "precipitate" are you implying that Love or creative power is derived from Will? So that if there was no Will, then Love and Light could not exist? It sounds as though you are making that implication.
This is a drastic difference from Tanrar's analogy of Will as the fuel and combustion process of the automobile. Using his analogy Ooo's Will would more likely be the material out of which both the fuel and the parts of the automobile are made from. A much more substantial role played by the Will.
As a side question -- if Will is so foundational why do you think Ra only greets in "the love and light of the OIC" and not "the will, love and light of the OIC"? Perhaps they want to emphasize the +4D harvest sentiment.
In contrast what do you think a -5D or -6D SMC would say as a greeting to a -3D channel group? "We greet you with total will power and dominance of Creators which we are." or "We greet you in the will/light and light/will as Masters of Infinity".
Are you taking a Platonist position with Will, Love and Light as universal Forms that precede and transcend space and time and from which are precipitated the particular and concrete manifestations ie warm fuzzy feeling love? This is a key philosophical consideration -- and I'm beginning to think that Ra is a dyed in wool Platonist and is perhaps an extreme kind called a Plenitudinous Platonist.
Your initial quote asserts that Will is the force behind Love or creative power so is that a validation of Love/Will and Will/Love which acts as the creative or driving force? My tentative definitions of Love/Will and Will/Love suggests to this.
Questions to consider:
-- Is the Will self-motivated at some primal level to initially act on Love? Will/Love?
-- Does the Will also allow itself to be inspired by Love to act and impress itself on Love? Love/Will?
-- Can it also be motivated by Hate to act and impress itself on Hate? Hate/Will?
-- How about pure Will acting on Light without Love? Will/Light and Light/Will?
-- Does the Sun have Will? It encompasses the octave densities and astrologically is considered our center of conscious being, will and intention.
It takes intention and motivation -- Will-based traits -- to be focused and to move. Will/Love and Love/Will again? These are also psychological traits so there's the notion of metaphysics and metapsychology interacting.
Ra says Free Will is the 1st distortion of the LOO -- "There is a law which we believe to be one of the more significant primal distortions of the Law of One. That is the Law of Confusion. You have called this the Law of Free Will." -- but the 2nd distortion of Love is the Original Thought.
So I guess this Law of Confusion or Free Will does not express awareness and thought. Is it therefore an unaware modality? Some raw random impulse?
I have considered the Original Thought in terms of First Cause -- "We feel that the First Cause was an Absolute Determinism...this Absolute Invariant Determinism was the Original Thought that predicated a fixed, constant deterministic choice -- one that is invariant and necessary and infused with awareness and purpose."
As another side question, why isn't the Original Thought known as the Original Emotion if it is Love-based? Or does thought precede emotion? Platonic Forms again. As another aside -- Quo says the infinity of spirit is greater than the infinity of consciousness so is not the Logos derived from spirit? And isn't spirit a kind of primal and inspired Will? Or Love-inspired Will?
Again, by "Will" are you referring to "Free Will" or some more general Will with both free and deterministic modalities? I ask because Free Will appears later as a primal distortion.
Other side questions. Intelligent Infinity is the potentiated state of Unity according to Ra in book 2. What about primal Infinity before it became Intelligent Infinity which is mentioned in session 1? Intelligent Infinity is also called the OIC in various parts of the material.
Ra may at times get ambiguous and conflate terms -- which is understandable when conveying +4D message to 3D humans.
This is true if you are equating the LOO with Intelligent Infinity. As I said the OIC is also referred as Intelligent Infinity. We can lumped them all together I guess but this is starting to feel muddled and distortive --- even in poetic holistic terms.
So Will provides the desire or intent for Love or Thought to create? So again, is this more accurately described as Will/Love or Love/Will?
Tanrar seems to be emphasizing his personal holistic and experiential views that may or may not differ with Ra's metaphysics. His approach does indicate how mystics and poet philosophers differ from say, philosopher poets. He refers to will, love and light as ideas so he may be in the Platonic camp.
Side question -- how do these universal Platonic Forms differ from archetypes ie of the mind, body and spirit? This is an area for more research.
What I've learned from this Socratic approach is that it's important to define terms and apply these terms in an appropriate and restricted usage so as not to cause conflation and confusion. We all tend to do this when talking of such abstract concepts.
Thanks again and keep it going if you see the need to reply. I'll be adding more thoughts.
I type up most of my posts ahead of time so they're in a form that is what you'd call pedantic so they can be reworked and used in the treatise and curriculum project. More posts to come on this topic.
Thanks for the feedback. This is a tough subject since it seems to be at odds with Ra's bias of just love and light of the OIC. Even so, it's good to challenge your professor once in a while.
I can appreciate both an analytical philosophical and a holistic spiritual account of this subject and others. They are both useful for a future philosophical treatise and curriculum.
I'm focusing on the analytic so I'm going to ask alot of questions in the manner of the Socratic Method and is not meant to badger and offend. The purpose of this method is to gain a better understanding and clarity through dialectic using thesis, antithesis and synthesis.
I'll start with Ooo.
Quote:Without Will, Love or the power of creativity does not precipitate to bring forth Light or manifestation to construct a universe wherein experience may be had.
By "Will" are you referring to "Free Will" or some more general Will with both free and deterministic modalities? An example of deterministic will is the will to survive or perhaps just the will to have being as the IUP/AOP suggests of Infinity and Unity.
By "precipitate" are you implying that Love or creative power is derived from Will? So that if there was no Will, then Love and Light could not exist? It sounds as though you are making that implication.
This is a drastic difference from Tanrar's analogy of Will as the fuel and combustion process of the automobile. Using his analogy Ooo's Will would more likely be the material out of which both the fuel and the parts of the automobile are made from. A much more substantial role played by the Will.
As a side question -- if Will is so foundational why do you think Ra only greets in "the love and light of the OIC" and not "the will, love and light of the OIC"? Perhaps they want to emphasize the +4D harvest sentiment.
In contrast what do you think a -5D or -6D SMC would say as a greeting to a -3D channel group? "We greet you with total will power and dominance of Creators which we are." or "We greet you in the will/light and light/will as Masters of Infinity".
Quote:In order to properly conceptualize this, one must understand Love as being more than just a "warm n' fuzzy feeling," but as the creative or driving force—the active, kinetic, dynamic principle behind all of Creation.
Are you taking a Platonist position with Will, Love and Light as universal Forms that precede and transcend space and time and from which are precipitated the particular and concrete manifestations ie warm fuzzy feeling love? This is a key philosophical consideration -- and I'm beginning to think that Ra is a dyed in wool Platonist and is perhaps an extreme kind called a Plenitudinous Platonist.
Your initial quote asserts that Will is the force behind Love or creative power so is that a validation of Love/Will and Will/Love which acts as the creative or driving force? My tentative definitions of Love/Will and Will/Love suggests to this.
Questions to consider:
-- Is the Will self-motivated at some primal level to initially act on Love? Will/Love?
-- Does the Will also allow itself to be inspired by Love to act and impress itself on Love? Love/Will?
-- Can it also be motivated by Hate to act and impress itself on Hate? Hate/Will?
-- How about pure Will acting on Light without Love? Will/Light and Light/Will?
-- Does the Sun have Will? It encompasses the octave densities and astrologically is considered our center of conscious being, will and intention.
Quote:Ra described Love as a "kinetic focus." Focus is concentration, and kinetic is movement or motion.
It takes intention and motivation -- Will-based traits -- to be focused and to move. Will/Love and Love/Will again? These are also psychological traits so there's the notion of metaphysics and metapsychology interacting.
Quote:Elsewhere (particularly pre- and post-Ra L/L Research channeling), Love is described as the Original Thought. What is Thought if not the ultimate creative activity?
Ra says Free Will is the 1st distortion of the LOO -- "There is a law which we believe to be one of the more significant primal distortions of the Law of One. That is the Law of Confusion. You have called this the Law of Free Will." -- but the 2nd distortion of Love is the Original Thought.
So I guess this Law of Confusion or Free Will does not express awareness and thought. Is it therefore an unaware modality? Some raw random impulse?
I have considered the Original Thought in terms of First Cause -- "We feel that the First Cause was an Absolute Determinism...this Absolute Invariant Determinism was the Original Thought that predicated a fixed, constant deterministic choice -- one that is invariant and necessary and infused with awareness and purpose."
As another side question, why isn't the Original Thought known as the Original Emotion if it is Love-based? Or does thought precede emotion? Platonic Forms again. As another aside -- Quo says the infinity of spirit is greater than the infinity of consciousness so is not the Logos derived from spirit? And isn't spirit a kind of primal and inspired Will? Or Love-inspired Will?
Quote:To me, it is evident Love precedes Light and Will precedes Love. And this Will is what Intelligent Infinity is "full of" when at rest or "before" Creation (the active or creative phase).
Again, by "Will" are you referring to "Free Will" or some more general Will with both free and deterministic modalities? I ask because Free Will appears later as a primal distortion.
Other side questions. Intelligent Infinity is the potentiated state of Unity according to Ra in book 2. What about primal Infinity before it became Intelligent Infinity which is mentioned in session 1? Intelligent Infinity is also called the OIC in various parts of the material.
Ra may at times get ambiguous and conflate terms -- which is understandable when conveying +4D message to 3D humans.
Quote:This is why Ra calls these the 3 "distortions" from Intelligent Infinity.
This is true if you are equating the LOO with Intelligent Infinity. As I said the OIC is also referred as Intelligent Infinity. We can lumped them all together I guess but this is starting to feel muddled and distortive --- even in poetic holistic terms.
Quote:And the answer to that, my dear, is Will. The preceding power, impulse or desire to act, to move, to create.
So Will provides the desire or intent for Love or Thought to create? So again, is this more accurately described as Will/Love or Love/Will?
Tanrar seems to be emphasizing his personal holistic and experiential views that may or may not differ with Ra's metaphysics. His approach does indicate how mystics and poet philosophers differ from say, philosopher poets. He refers to will, love and light as ideas so he may be in the Platonic camp.
Side question -- how do these universal Platonic Forms differ from archetypes ie of the mind, body and spirit? This is an area for more research.
What I've learned from this Socratic approach is that it's important to define terms and apply these terms in an appropriate and restricted usage so as not to cause conflation and confusion. We all tend to do this when talking of such abstract concepts.
Thanks again and keep it going if you see the need to reply. I'll be adding more thoughts.