In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

I'd like to invite and encourage everyone to de-personalize the issue. I've found it far more productive to separate the actual person consuming the animal flesh or fruits and vegetables from the action itself. To avoid tempers flaring or anyone feeling like they are personally being attacked, let's try to discuss the dietary choice itself rather than specific people.

Agreed! As with any volatile topic, it's important to keep the discussion impersonal, to avoid the discussion degenerating.

I've met both staunch vegetarians and staunch consumers of animal flesh who had all sorts of other imbalances and issues unrelated to diet.

Absolutely true!

However, some dietary choices are more STO oriented and others are more STS oriented.

That is the crux of the matter!

Pablisimo, your entire post is totally right on! I especially liked that part about humans having the ability, and even the duty, to choose. This is a huge part of the equation.

Thank you for such a comprehensive explanation of why you've chosen to be vegetarian. I agree 100%! And all those reasons you listed, are mine as well. I would not change a single word of what you posted, but will only add to it some additional reasons of my own.

I've selected just a few key points you made, to expound upon. But please know that I am in complete agreement with your entire post, including all the parts I'm not specifically responding to.

* The vast majority of meat produced worldwide is done in large agri-business factory farms. These farms subject animals to ENORMOUS suffering and cruelty and on a truly MASSIVE scale.

In addition to all your reasons, I would add to that, that I believe this massive suffering is contributing greatly to the overall distress and darkness of this planet, and actually hindering the harvest. It's not just about individuals' harvestability, but overall, as a whole planetary consciousness, we are all being hindered by the massive suffering...whether we are vegetarians or not. Thus, I believe that anything we can do, to raise awareness of those directly contributing to this suffering, is in the best interest of the planet and all her inhabitants...in much the same way that raising awareness about the atrocities of war affects us all.

If you're going to eat at McDonald's, then I suggest you should know exactly what that really means.

Surely we, students of the Law of One, can make conscious choices? How can the choice be conscious without fully understanding just how horrendous the animal suffering really is? And how can one understand this, without fully investigating the matter?

Put aside the death issue and do some research and find out how these animals are raised and on what scale.

OK maybe I only agree 99.99999 %.

I understand your point here. If a person is choosing to eat animals, then yes, temporarily putting aside the death issue, in order to make more conscious choice of selecting only animals that were raised humanely, is definitely a commendable step.

My little teeny bit of disagreement, or maybe it's just a clarification, would be to suggest that the 'death issue' be put aside only temporarily. It cannot be eliminated from the equation, because, as I see it, it is still a violation of the free will of the animal, no matter how it's done.

I absolutely do agree that it isn't a black-and-white issue and varying degrees to our choices, and I agree that, if a person is going to eat animals, it's far better to choose those that had some sort of life, rather than those who were tortured on a daily basis, as is routine with most of the meat consumed.

Unless one raises their own animals or only purchases from small, highly ethical sources, then one is participating in a vast cycle of cruelty and exploitation of which the actual slaughter is only a tiny part.

Well said.

The huge demand for the animal flesh with no concern for how those animals are raised is the reason for this problem, this massive machine of suffering. Eating meat in the modern era in the West is a totally different proposition than it was in the past due to agri-business.

I would add to this that, in the past, animals were needed for survival. But that is no longer the case. We now have synthetic materials, as well as plant-based materials, to keep us warm. We no longer need skins and furs. And we no longer need the bodies of the animals for food.

To the view that animals have, on some level, volunteered to exist to feed us, I would respond:

That may have been true at some time. This 3D reality is fraught with violence. As unity100 pointed out, even animals in the wild are violent to one another, and suffer on a daily basis from hunger, fleas, cold, etc.

So the inherent design of this planet seems to have included the suffering of some entities at the hands of other entities.

But, is that a reason to continue it? Aren't we evolving? If our eyes are opened to suffering, and there is something we can do to reduce that suffering, don't we have a responsibility to do whatever we can, even if it's making a different choice about what we put in our mouths?

What if, just what if, as we evolve, at some point, instead of animals feeding other animals, the situation transforms into plants 'existing to feed' animals? Wouldn't this be a logical progression?

What if the plant oversouls have agreed to feed us, and the idea that animals have agreed to feed us is actually obsolete?

What if the plant oversouls agreed to feed us temporarily, until we evolve to the point that we no longer need to consume any other entities at all, neither plant nor animal?

What if the plant oversouls chose bodies that are able to regenerate the equivalent of limbs (leaves) without pain, because that is a suitable design for an entity that is going to join its life force with that of a higher, more evolved entity?

What if the plant oversouls chose bodies that cannot run away, cannot alleviate pain, because running away is irrelevant to an entity that WANTS to be harvested, that does not feel pain when its leaves are removed?

What if plants and animals really are very different, being that plants are immobile for a reason, and animals are mobile for a reason? The reason being that animals feel pain, and have been given bodies that allow them to escape the source of that pain? While plants don't need to run or fly, since they don't feel pain?

What if there is still some karma incurred when consuming plants, but not nearly as much as that which is incurred when consuming animals? Likewise, what if there is less karma incurred when consuming fruits and nuts than when consuming the whole plant? So there are varying degrees, and we are intended to follow a logical progression as we evolve ourselves?

What if, eventually, we can exit this type of scenario altogether, by consuming some sort of completely karma-free, plant-derived, or maybe even energy-derived, nectar?

Hey wait, didn't Ra say that very thing happens in 4D?

It seems to me that going from eating animals, to eating plants, to eating fruits, then to eating only nectar, and eventually to eating only pure Light, is a natural progression. But how do we get from point A to point E?

It is a good thing to eat your food with respectful gratitude and bless the sacrifice, but doing that doesn't absolve you of responsibility for participation in a needless cycle of torture and suffering.

Exactly!

Some people, conscious of the reality of factory farming, seek out meat from relatively ethical sources. I do feel this is superior than just buying whatever is available at the supermarket or average restaurant. It would be a great thing if all animals raised for meat were treated well! However, after intensely pondering the issue, I decided that for ME, in my particular situation and with my own understanding of life, that abstaining from meat altogether is the best choice, the one that is most respectful of other life on this planet. I ultimately concluded that by consuming the animals, even if they were treated and slaughtered humanely, I was still violating their rights.

Well said!

* I am not convinced that plants feel pain simply based on what my own 5 senses have observed. Animals cry out and run away when slaughtered. Plants do not give us any indication of distress when being harvested. We are here in 3D to make choices and have been given basic biofeedback mechanisms to interpret data from our environment. If plants had the same level of sentience and capacity to feel pain as animals, then I believe we would have been given the tools to recognize this directly. As Monica rightly pointed out, plants can root from cuttings and can easily deal with lost branches and leaves. You'd be hard pressed to find an animal that can easily survive, let alone thrive, after losing random body parts, but yet this is common in the plant world. I recognize there is a fundamentally different physiology to plants. Pain receptors in ANIMALS make great sense because they are mobile. When we touch fire, we get burned and quickly move away from it. When we feel cold, we add clothing. Our pain receptors tell this moving body absolutely valuable information. With plants, there would be no sense in having pain receptors because the plant cannot move to any significant degree. They cannot control their environment by moving about it beyond very slight adjustments, so what value would a pain receptor be to a plant? Would the Infinite Creator or the local Logos have created beings with the capacity to feel pain but no way to communicate it to other beings creating that pain and no way to get away from it either? To me, that idea is absurd.

Pablisimo, that is the best response to the "we might as well eat animals since plants feel pain too" argument I've ever seen! Profound!

as we shift into 4D+ I think it's time for us to let go of activities that exploit other beings. The very hallmark of STS behavior is to use other beings for our own gain, in violation of their rights, without care for them.

Exactly!

I think abstaining from meat IS a superior dietary choice, that's my opinion.

You have just said what I have avoided saying. But yes, I DO think it's a superior choice! This is not about being self-righteous. It's a matter of simply doing the math. It's about championing a more efficient, more economically feasible, healthier, less cruel, less damaging to the planet, etc. choice. It's superior on all counts, for ALL concerned! For us, for the animals, for the plants, and for the animals.

There are plenty who don't agree with that opinion, and that's just fine. I will continue to walk my path and stay as true to my ideals as I can while within this incarnation. I choose to respect all other beings, even those who don't agree with me about diet. Discussions like this one are helpful because we can respectfully share our OPINIONS and RELATIVE UNDERSTANDINGS on this topic with one another. Let's try not to lose sight of what we're doing -- sharing ideas collectively rather than attacking or defending ourselves.

Beautifully said!

And now, I need to go check on the Tofurkey in the oven!