In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

Yeah, I had browsed that post and I guess it answers my question (that you do equate any meat eating with cruelty to animals).

It's impossible not to. However, I hope you also noted the very important point that I went to great lengths to clarify in that post, about the distinction between cruelty to animals, and humans knowingly being cruel.

Of course it's obvious to me you understand the difference between the typical meat industry and progressive meat industry.

Yes, absolutely.

I know the topic has been beat to death whether it's cruel to slaughter 2D beings in the form of plants, and we've even discussed this but I just have some new insights I wanted to smooth out, so I apologize if it's all been said in different words. If you're tired of typing the same thing so many times I completely understand if you don't wish to offer your opinion on this.

Thanks for your consideration! I don't mind continuing the conversation - it is an issue I consider very important - provided the whole thread has been read, to avoid repeating what's already been said.

I spend a good 5+ hours a day in my produce garden. During this time, I slaughter literally THOUSANDS more 2D beings than with the meat production, and this is the beings slaughtered that aren't being eaten. Bugs and weeds, in order to have healthy crops, must be taken care of. Being organic, I have to personally slaughter these beings myself, and in a spiritual sense it takes a much bigger toll on me than when I slaughter other animals.

Sure, you can place plants or bugs into a "lower life category" than mammals (like your example of protecting a child over a dog). It's very hard for me to do this, especially when they are being slaughtered just for living and doing what they live to do (eat plants and share plant space with other plants) without being used for sustenance in any way. I can be thankful to my produce friends and my animal friends as they provide nutrition and sustenance for myself and my customers who care about how their food is treated (I'd say a good 80% of my customers take much care in knowing the animals are treated humanely and vegetables grown with care). How can I justify the slaughter of literally thousands of beings in my garden? My crops would die if I allowed the weeds to live, and I couldn't sell anything if I allowed the bugs to have their way with my produce. But their life is ended, abruptly and carelessly.

In the end, I feel much better about reuniting my goat and chicken friends with Spirit, knowing I cared for them and appreciated them their entire life, and knowing they provided their life to continue life.

I can't get over the mindless slaughter in my garden though. Thousands fewer 2D beings die in my meat production opposed to my produce production. It is weighing heavy on my heart. I say a prayer for each weed I pull, and each bug I kill, but in the end, it seems so mindless and useless. I long for a time when we can sustain ourselves without slaughter of any entity, whether it be a goat, chicken, aphid, worm, thistle, mushroom, weed, potato, beet, carrot...etc. But until that time, my own personal "hierarchy for life" has little separation from goat to weed, chicken to bug. And I must say, while I am completely free of judgement as you are, I cannot understand how the slaughter of entities to maintain a garden can be so easily brushed off and the slaughter of entities for direct sustenance be rejected.

It's not my place to judge you or anyone else. This isn't a game of "who's the purest of us all". It's a process of raising awareness, and changing our reality to one that isn't violent. You are part of that very important process of change. I commend you for that!

I really appreciate that, and I commend you as well for being so steadfast in your part of the process of change. It's all important.

Wow, abridgetoofar, what an insightful and heartfelt post! I will do my best to address the points you made, with the understanding that I am not in your shoes, and I don't have all the answers, but am just another seeker trying to do the best I can on this planet, just like you are. All I can do is offer my own opinions, for what they're worth.

I also would like to point out an important distinction between your questions and others who seemed to be seeking approval or justification from me. It's not my place to 'approve' or judge anyone's diet or lifestyle, which is why I avoid commenting on anyone's personal choices, but prefer to focus only on the concepts.

You, however, are focusing on the concepts, while using your own situation as an example to illustrate those concepts. Thus, I will respond.

I will first reiterate that I don't like the design of this planet, and I fully intend to report back to the Logos my opinion, which is, I believe, part of my own particular mission here. Sort of a reconnaissance, to actually feel what it's like to suffer intensely. We've all suffered, of course, but I feel very strongly that the formula of allowing such intense suffering to facilitate spiritual evolution has been taken too far. This topic has been explored in a couple of other threads, even to the point of questioning why animals in the wild must endure the constant itching from fleas!

So, in order to convey my thoughts about your questions, I'd like to make clear that I consider it a responsibility of Wanderers (or, at least, those who feel so inclined towards this particular task) to do what we can to raise the vibration of this planet, and that includes illuminating and transforming suffering in general, meaning that the suffering of our 2D brethren cannot be ignored.

But, the question is, how to do that? You are right in that totally avoiding the killing of 2D entities is impossible, without a complete overhaul of the design of this planet. We all breathe in microorganisms with every breath. (But in that case, are they really dying? Or are they joining with us, in larger life?) We cannot be expected to swerve on the highway, possibly killing other humans, in order to avoid a bug going splat on our windshield.

So, we do the best we can. It's not an absolute, all-or-nothing, black-and-white proposition. It's a continuum.

I know that you and I are in agreement that factory farming is atrocious. I would even go so far to say it is inherently evil, in the same category as war. I see no good in it at all. Zero. It is 100% STS, in my opinion. Please note that I am speaking of the industry itself, not the individual hapless farmers who may have gotten sucked into a system they don't know how to get out of. (Just as I consider the pharmaceutical drug industry as inherently STS, as an industry, but that doesn't mean the individual pharmacists or doctors are STS. I hope everyone understands this very important distinction.)

But, beyond that, I don't think we can say, "xyz is good while abc is bad." It's not that simple. There are too many shades of grey.

As I stated in a previous post in this thread, we know from Ra that, in 4D, we will be consuming living foods, and in 5D a nectar is consumed.

43.17 Questioner: Is it necessary to eat food in fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

43.18 Questioner: The mechanism of, shall we say, social catalyst due to a necessity for feeding the body then is active in fourth-density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The fourth-density being desires to serve and the preparation of foodstuffs is extremely simple due to increased communion between entity and living foodstuff. Therefore, this is not a significant catalyst but rather a simple precondition of the space/time experience. The catalyst involved is the necessity for the ingestion of foodstuffs. This is not considered to be of importance by fourth-density entities and it, therefore, aids in the teach/learning of patience.

43.19 Questioner: Could you expand a little bit on how that aids in the teach/learning of patience?

Ra: I am Ra. To stop the functioning of service-to-others long enough to ingest foodstuffs is to invoke patience.

43.20 Questioner: I’m guessing that it is not necessary to ingest foodstuffs in fifth-density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. However, the vehicle needs food which may be prepared by thought.

43.21 Questioner: What type of food would this be?

Ra: I am Ra. You would call this type of food, nectar or ambrosia, or a light broth of golden white hue.

43.22 Questioner: What is the purpose of ingesting food in fifth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a somewhat central point. The purpose of space/time is the increase in catalytic action appropriate to the density. One of the preconditions for space/time existence is some form of body complex. Such a body complex must be fueled in some way.

43.23 Questioner: In third density the fueling of our bodily complex is not only simply fueling of the bodily complex but gives us opportunities to learn service. In fourth density it not only fuels the complex but gives us opportunities to learn patience. In fifth density it fuels the complex but does it teach?

Ra: I am Ra. In fifth density it is comfort for those of like mind gathered together to share in this broth, thus becoming one in light and wisdom while joining hearts and hands in physical activity. Thus in this density it becomes a solace rather than a catalyst for learning.

43.24 Questioner: I am simply trying to trace the evolution of this catalyst that then, as you say, changes in fifth density. I might as well complete this and ask if there is any ingestion of food in sixth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. However, the nature of this food is that of light and is impossible to describe to you in any meaningful way as regards the thrust of your query.

I find it absurd to think that we could go from eating dead animal carcasses wrapped in plastic, that were killed mindlessly and cruelly at a factory farm, to consuming living foods or nectar, in an instant.

As Edgar Cayce said, "You don't go to heaven, you grow to heaven."

We won't just go poof and find ourselves in 4D, consuming living foods, right after eating a hamburger at McDonald's.

That seems incongruent to me. Consciousness must be shifted, and consciousness shifts in stages, though it remains ever possible to have that sudden, instant grand shift in consciousness (though not probable!).

Facilitating this shift in consciousness from accepting the atrocities of factory farms, to actually caring about how the animals were raised, is a crucially important part of this process! Thus, I see your service as being extremely important, because you are offering a path in the direction of increased awareness and a reduction in cruelty.

Just as the step from point a to point b is a progression, so too is the step from point b to point c.

What is the goal? It is as you said: No needless suffering/killing at all. Point z is a 4D planet where, presumably, the lion will lie beside the lamb, and wolves will no longer itch from fleas.

How do we get there? We have to start by no longer supporting factory farms. That is an important first step.

Going vegetarian is an important step.

Where does killing bugs and weeds fit into this continuum?

That too is a step along the way. You are obviously becoming acutely aware of the plight of not only animals, but bugs and weeds. Increased awareness is always a step in the right direction, so I commend you for that!

I have only a small backyard garden, and so far have not had to kill any bugs. I did find a fat, fuzzy caterpillar whom I tossed in the empty field next door, but other than that I've been lucky so far. I have had good success with talking to wasps and getting them to move their nests away from the front door, but I confess to having killed cockroaches and mosquitoes. I'm definitely not exemplary when it comes to bugs! I have recently started working more diligently towards harmonizing with cockroaches and mosquitoes, and the fleas on my dogs. I'm making some progress, thankfully! but still have a ways to go.

But I am working on it. I am letting most weeds grow, and some useful, edible weeds have popped up, which I am treating like the cultivated plants. I have a lot more freedom to do this, since my garden is not my livelihood, as yours is. I don't envy your situation!

I foresee a point in the continuum being total harmony with Nature, so that no bugs or weeds are killed. There are a number of books about this (whose titles I previously posted somewhere), so clearly some people are doing this successfully. They are forming pacts with the plant devas and insect populations, allowing them free reign in designated areas, and the system seems to be working beautifully!

I just read in one of those books, about a new idea of letting gardens be semi-wild. Rather than eradicate all the weeds, some farmers are letting useful weeds grow, and are even creating a market for them in upscale restaurants!

Did you know that wild dandelion greens are about 100 times more nutritious than cultivated lettuce?

One suggestion is to investigate the value of weeds. You just might find (or create) a market for them!

I however am a novice, so I cannot speak from experience. But I am inspired by these books, and plan to incorporate these methods, as much as possible.

I don't know whether such practices are practical on a large scale, so I am only offering these ideas for your consideration.

In the meantime, I will offer my opinion about bugs.

Ra has stated that 2D entities gain self-awareness, the prerequisite for harvest to 3D, and this process is facilitated by interaction with 3D entities. Over time, our interactions with our dogs and cats help prepare them for 3D.

I don't see any such interaction with individual aphids.

We tend to interact with colonies of aphids, not individual ones.

Hierarchy does come into play. How can it not?

It's not about inherent value of the entities. The individual aphid has just as much inherent value as you or I.

I am not worth more than that aphid just because I am more evolved.

But, it's about practicality and efficiency. A 3D entity has a lot more invested in this lifetime than a 2D entity. Look at how much time, care, and preparation the soul invested before incarnating! All the way down to pre-incarnational programming. Incarnating into a 3D body is quite a big deal!

Not so for the aphid. We know from Ra that incarnations in 2D are pretty much automatic. The aphid you just killed may already be incarnating again by the time you get to the next plant!

Furthermore, that aphid never had the time nor the luxury, to develop self-awareness. You are likely not addressing every individual aphid - how can you? You see a colony of aphids on the tomato plant and you're thinking about aphids, not an aphid.

There might be more projection of awareness onto a slug or caterpillar, but even so, not likely enough to trigger self-awareness in that slug or caterpillar.

Thus, while the slug has just as much inherent value as you or I, it doesn't have as much invested in this lifetime. It can roll with getting killed a lot more easily than we can. Death isn't as traumatizing to a bug as it is to a cow or goat, for the simple reason that the cow or goat is more awake and aware than the bug.

I realize that my opinions are likely going to get challenged. I will be asked, How do you know the slug isn't as aware as the goat? Well, by common sense, based on what Ra has told us.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so. To me, it's common sense that an entity evolved enough to be self-aware, wouldn't incarnate into the body of a slug! Why would it do that, when it could make much more progress in the body of a goat, cat or dog?

I cannot prove that I am right in these opinions. But to me, it just makes sense.

Just as it makes sense to me that an entity evolved enough for self-awareness, including an aversion to pain and suffering, wouldn't incarnate into the body of a carrot. Why would it do that, when it could incarnate into a bird who is mobile and can fly away from predators?

It's not just a matter of numbers. Yes, a greater number of aphids are being killed than goats, but the goats are far more sentient, and although that doesn't make them any more valuable to the Creator, it does mean that they have more invested in their incarnation than the aphids.

We know that a continuum exists. We know that a hierarchy exists. Whether we like it or not, we must do the best we can to fit into that continuum, and that might require taking hierarchy into consideration.

Maybe the only way to make sense of the situation is to weigh out the overall net good effect from our actions. What is the net good of offering organic produce and meat from animals who were cared for and treated humanely?

I would say that the net good, in terms of raising the awareness of 3D entities, far outweighs the net bad, in terms of the bugs killed.

You are providing a very important service, at this point in time, given the current state of awareness on this planet. I must be honest and tell you that I foresee a time in which no animals are ever slaughtered for food, and you already know that I see, as a goal to aspire to, a planet that is entirely vegetarian.

I will also be honest and say that I don't really understand the necessity for offering meat at all, when there is a profitable market for goat's milk, eggs, and organic produce. But, again, I see that as a continuum.

In the meantime, farmers like you are providing a very important service, to raise awareness, in pursuit of that eventual goal. I realize that you might not agree with my vision of a vegetarian society, but I'm just explaining how I see your service as fitting into that picture, rather than being in opposition to it.

I see raising awareness of the plight of animals as the first step. I see going vegetarian as the next step. I see eliminating the killing of bugs as a step beyond where most people can even fathom, at this point. But you are fathoming it...you are acutely aware of the killing of bugs and weeds. Therefore, it must be an important issue for you, since you are in that situation. You are facing this clearly. You are confronting it. Therefore, maybe you are tasked with bringing this to the awareness of others. Maybe you will join with the other farmers and gardeners who are pioneering new techniques for working harmoniously with the plant and insect oversouls.

There is a reason you aren't satisfied with killing bugs and weeds. Maybe it's to provide a catalyst for you to take your art to the next level, and lead the way for the rest of us.

Blessings to you!

Note: This marathon post has been edited.