More Positive but Less Harvestable

[Monica]

Where does it say in the LOO "knowledge base" say that we should insashibly judge others. The word "Judgement" does not show up in the LOO even once.

There is no question that Ra stated we must discern.

The term judgment is often used interchangeably with discernment, but you seem to be referring to judgment in the context of deciding the fate of an other-self; ie. as fundamentalist religious people often do, when they say who is 'saved' and who is not.

But I don't see that happening here.

There isn't a single thread, anywhere on Bring4th, whose topic is idle gossip about celebrities, judging their exploits. Neither are there any discussions which seek to ascertain who is harvestable and who isn't, as I've seen on Christian forums. (Yeah, no kidding, I saw one entitled, "Once you're saved, are you always saved, or can you lose your salvation?" in which the participants proceeded to analyze who was 'saved' and who wasn't, all based purely on beliefs.)

Bring4th's guidelines require respect, not only to other members, but to other-selves in general. Rarely have I ever had to enforce this guideline; our members are generally very respectful even when discussing famous (or infamous) other-selves with whom they are in direct disagreement.

So, I don't see this particular thread as being judgmental, though it is definitely discerning. Rather, I see it as a sincere, constructive effort to understand polarity and the requirements of Harvest.

Ra never answered questions about contemporary figures. Ra only answered questions about historical figures. This indicates, to me, that Ra saw value in using those historical figures as examples, to illustrate what they were trying to teach us about polarity.

By studying Patton, Hitler, or any of the others mentioned by Ra, we can better understand how those intangible concepts like polarity manifest in real people, and we can learn from their lives.

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Someone along the way here stated Patton participated in War, he clearly isn't harvestable. This statement is wildly distrorted. the opposite is actually more true, participating in war might be the defining catalyst to see things clearly.

I haven't gone back and re-read all the posts, but I don't recall anyone saying that at all. What I do remember is this:

I don't believe there is a place in 4D/positive for those who believe that killing and war-making is the best course of action in any situation, despite how "noble" the cause may be.

It seems that you interpreted the statement as saying that no one who ever killed can be harvestable STO. But that's not what Tenet said. (Unless you are referring to another quote that I missed...?)

This isn't fundamentalist Christianity. There are no 'unforgivable sins.'

All is catalyst. But we must learn from the catalyst, and make choices based on that catalyst.

Believing that killing and war-making are appropriate, isn't the same as participating in killing/war. Tenet's words are different from the words used when quoting him. He never said that anyone who ever fought in wars can never be harvestable. He seemed to be referring to those who view violence as acceptable.

One could participate in killing/war and then later realize that they aren't suitable for the STO path, and thus utilize that catalyst to polarize STO.

In fact, I know people who fought in wars, and they no longer accept war as suitable for their path. They have accepted responsibility for their past actions, and are working on forgiveness of self and other-selves, to clear the karma from their actions. I'm sure this happens a lot, being that this planet is so violent overall. Of course those who were violent can 'repent' (to use a Christian term) and polarize STO.

I think Tenet was referring to someone who participated in killing/war and yet, still thinks they are acceptable, instead of learning that they aren't. In Christian terms, refuses to "repent" for their past actions.

(Please excuse the Christian term but it seems appropriate in this case.)

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it is also a naive, and the answer that Ra gives suites, basically an answer for a child to ponder. A childish question. A childish answer. I sometimes wonder if Ra is still stuck in his naive mistake himself.

Wow. That's a first. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I've just never seen anyone refer to Ra as childish before. A civilization millions of years more advanced than we are...

Answering the questions asked, knowing that the answers will be distorted, on purpose, to create catalyst. He never lies. He leaves it up to us to figure out.

Ra went to great lengths to minimize distortion.

Here we are though. To dicern, to "judge" the meaning of his "words". It is amazaing that there are no "words" for the questions that are asked, but Ra offers them nonetheless!

Seejay, I'm getting the impression that some of Ra's words don't resonate with you.

As far as Patton, in the micro, God bless him for being loyal to his 3d reality. Not many have the gumpsion to be purely true to the illusion as we all agreed to do.

Loyal to a 3D reality that is basically a school for juvenile delinquents? A planet that is far, far behind other planets, because of its bellicose tendencies?

I respectfully but strongly disagree with you here. We aren't supposed to stay loyal to such backwards, primitive actions like war. We didn't agree to any such thing. Quite the opposite! The objective is to lift the planet above such primitive, barbaric actions, so that the planet's inhabitants can evolve. I don't think we owe any loyalty to the machinations of war whatsoever.

We wouldn't be here otherwise without the agreement we made. Don't make the mistake that he is distorted with "war mongering". He was true to his mission, and the will of his 3d brothers, even though it sucks, and to his own detriment.

Again I strongly disagree. He failed to become harvestable. We can deduce from that, that he failed in his mission. He had a chance to stand up to the atrocity of war, but instead chose to continue to participate in it.

War is an amazing catalyst.

A common misconception is that if something is catalyst, that means we should give in to it. I disagree. The purpose of catalyst is to spur us into action, into making a choice. Sure, war can be a catalyst, but only if the STO-oriented entity realizes that it isn't suitable. If he continues to support war, then the catalyst has failed.

Ra says so himself. To assume that all who participate are evil doers is naive self indulgance.

No one has said that.

Turning a blind eye because it leaves a sour taste in your mouth is selfish.

I don't think anyone is doing that either. Rather, we are all confronting the issue and seeking to understand it, and do what we can to transmute it. But in order to transmute it, we must make a choice about its appropriateness for the STO path.

Seejay, I can see that this topic is raising some painful issues for you, because of your past involvement in war. We all have pasts that we seek to reconcile with our STO path. You are not alone. I hope that you find peace and healing!

Edit: I joined this discussion late. I see that Tenet has already addressed the points I just addressed.

Edit #2: Sometimes our pasts can't be reconciled with our STO path. But they can be healed.