In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

the only thing stopping this concept from extending to plants in a vegetable garden is personal opinion.

That's all any of us have: personal opinion. We're here on this planet which has an inherently violent design. Clearly this design was intended to facilitate catalyst of some sort. The challenge is to decipher it. That's what we're all trying to do.

I'm providing what I consider rational reasons for my opinions.

That opinion being, it's more "humane" to "violently slaughter" (as it would be put) a vegetable. You contend it's possible for the goats to feel betrayed when they are taken to be slaughtered, but I would contend it's possible for plants to feel that same betrayal.

Not if their purpose all along was to provide sustenance, as I've already explained.

My entire premise rests on the assumption that lower 2D entities exist as an extension of the Earth Spirit, rather than as individual entities.

Of course this is my speculation and cannot be proven. And of course I am fully aware that the logical counterargument is, "But animals were designed to be eaten" which I don't accept because it's obvious they weren't.

I readily admit that I could be wrong. I readily admit that it's possible that plants weren't designed to be eaten, and feel pain, anguish and emotions just as acutely as animals.

But it's not possible that animals don't feel pain, anguish, and even emotions.

Do you follow my logic here? If I say, "plants were designed to be eaten" then someone counters that with, "since plants were designed to be eaten, then so were animals" that counterargument doesn't hold water, because, just because a might be true, doesn't mean b is also true, especially when be is easily observable to be untrue.

It's easily observable that animals don't want to be slaughtered. Not so obvious with plants, which means it's inconclusive, and we must rely on rational thought and intuition to figure it out.

Conversely, if I say, "animals were clearly not designed to be eaten" then that doesn't negate the possibility that maybe plants were designed to be eaten!

Let's examine that possibility:

What is the difference between plants and animals?

1. Most plants are lower 2D, whereas animals are, presumably, higher 2D. Is this a justification for killing plants but not animals? No, not any more than it's a justification for killing animals instead of humans. Rather, I see it only as an argument to not kill animals, not an argument to kill plants. In fact, my entire premise all along hasn't been that it's 'ok' to kill plants! (which is what some people apparently perceive from me, much to my dismay.) Rather, my premise has been that, since we must eat something, it's more reasonable to eat plants (which we're not sure about) than animals (which we are sure about).

2. Plant entities inhabit bodies which are inviting to humans. The smell, appearance, and taste of fresh, living plants are generally pleasant, whereas the smell, appearance and taste of freshly killed animals is repulsive to most humans. Is this conclusive? No. Does it prove anything? No. But surely one can see that it's reasonable to factor this obvious fact into the equation. (Since we are, after all, stranded here behind a veil and must use our wits to figure it all out.)

3. Animals can fly, swim or run away from predators. Plants can't. Does this prove anything? No. But I contend that it would have been exceedingly cruel for the Logos to equip plants with fully functioning pain receptors and sentience, but no ability to be mobile. Our Logos has been accused of some cruel things (like fleas on wolves and the whole carnivorous animal design), but this would top the list. It's bad enough that a deer is killed by the lion, but at least the deer has a fighting chance to run away. Not so for the hapless plants. It would be beyond cruel, if plants felt as much fear and pain as the deer, but couldn't run away. If that lettuce plant feels intense torture every time a gorilla tears off a leaf and chews it. That would be so heinous, that it would lead me to believe we are existing in a totally STS world! It's simply unfathomable! Sure, it's a convenient argument, but I contend that it's an argument of justification, rather than standing on its own merit. Rather than face the cruelty of killing animals, it's more convenient to accuse vegetarians of being cruel to plants. It appears logical on the surface, but just a bit of rational thought shows the illogic of stranding untold vast numbers of plants, all completely helpless, defenseless victims of stampeding cattle, grazing cattle, and pretty much all life on this planet. Plant life is everywhere. Plants are being trampled everywhere. Plants are being pulled, cut, and chewed everywhere, constantly. And they can't do a damn thing about it. If there is a hell, then that must be it! To reincarnate as a plant! What kind of obscene torture is that? It's bad enough that the deer is slaughtered by the lion, but at least it actually dies. Not so for the hapless plant, who is denied death, but instead can regenerate its lost limbs again and again...who must endure the torment of having its limbs chewed again and again and again and again... If this is true, then this planet is sicker and more demented than I thought.

4. In order for an animal to be eaten, it must be killed. Once it's killed, it's a done deal. It ain't coming back. Plants, on the other hand, are able to regenerate. What is the purpose of this design? Is it only to inflict pain? Or is it possible that the design has a purpose: to feed higher 2D and 3D entities with a constant supply of nutritious food. I invite you to ponder that radical thought for just a minute. What if it's really true? What if we were never supposed to eat animals at all, but were supposed to figure it out on our own, that we can be healthier and happier by consuming living foods...living foods that don't die when harvested, but continue to give of themselves...continue to give of the Mother energy pulsing thru them. If so, if you can entertain the idea for just a minute, then you can see that it's quite an ingenious design. Cut and come again...wow, how efficient!

5. Animal 'foods' have been proven to contribute to cancer, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and other chronic diseases. The research overwhelmingly proves that plant-derived nutrients combat those very same diseases! What's more, there are phytonutrients in plants that aren't even all identified yet. Many studies with synthetic or isolated vitamins fail to show any results, but when those same vitamins are found in natural, raw plant foods along with conutrients, they are effective! Advanced stage cancer patients have been healed by drinking carrot juice. Native peoples had the knowledge of how to use plants as medicine. Take a look at the Chinese herbal pharmacopia - it's extremely extensive! They even understand how certain herbs affect our emotions! Bottom line is that plants heal. Animal 'foods' cause death. Death begets death. Life begets life. Plants are alive and they facilitate healing. Doesn't that tell us something? In this crucially important time, so close to the Harvest, when so many people are poisoned by all the chemicals humans have dumped on the planet...so many are getting cancer and other diseases...PLANTS are our greatest ally! Even if you believe in allopathic medicine, most drugs are derived from plants! Isn't this a clue? It would be incongruent for plants to have such powerful healing abilities, while writhing in agony. That just flat doesn't make sense! Right now, there is a beautiful movement towards sustainable living...healing the Earth...cleaning up the mess...reducing or eliminating cruelty and violence...ALL of this hinges on transitioning to a plant-based diet! If eating plants were just as cruel as eating animals, then our Logos has a very sick sense of humor!

6. The plant population has the keys to healing not only our bodies, but the Earth as well. Is this some sort of sick joke? Or could it be that this really is what was intended? Earth changes? Grow your own food! Overpopulation? Feed many more people by switching to a vegetarian diet! Pollution? Plant more trees, algae and other plants! Plants truly do hold the key to not only surviving the Earth changes, but transitioning our bodies to light based instead of carbon based. I find this highly significant! It flies in the face of reason to think that I am torturing a sentient entity, when I am working to heal myself and others, and heal the planet. That just doesn't make any sense at all.

As you can see, I have good reasons for my opinions. Rational reasons. Of course I could be wrong. None of us can prove any of our opinions. But right now, we are on this planet to do some good. Helping people heal with plants is a good thing. There is a huge overhaul taking place right now, all over the world. People are waking up! If plants felt pain the same way as animals, then it would all be a farce.

The meat industry is a huge part of the problem. Violence, whether in war zones or in the slaughterhouse, is a huge part of the problem. Healing with plants is a huge part of the solution.

Therefore, I find the theoretical counterargument of plants feeling pain and emotions the same as animals, to be incongruent and illogical. I see no evidence of it. It's purely hypothetical and flies in the face of reason, as far as I can see.

Even things like fruit trees...how would that tree feel if it knew you were taking its fruit, which it put forth so it could procreate, and you not plant that seed? The fruit tree, especially one in an orchard for selling fruit, could feel very betrayed because none of the fruit it puts forward is being used for its true intended purpose.

I have an answer to that, but it's too long to post here. The answer is in a book. You can probably get it at your local library: The Botany of Desire: A Plant's-Eye View of the World by Michael Pollan. Amazing book! It fully addresses this very issue.

Excerpt from reviews:

Working in his garden one day, Michael Pollan hit pay dirt in the form of an idea: do plants, he wondered, use humans as much as we use them? While the question is not entirely original, the way Pollan examines this complex coevolution by looking at the natural world from the perspective of plants is unique. The result is a fascinating and engaging look at the true nature of domestication.

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"What existential difference is there between the human being's role in this (or any) garden and the bumblebees?" "Did I choose to plant these potatoes, or did the potato make me do it? With profound questions like these, Michael Pollan pollinates your mind with a new world view of our relationships with plants, one in which humans are not at the center.

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Pollan's book starts with an interesting premise. Instead of considering how people look at plants, think about how they look at us. Bees pollinate, birds spread seeds, and furry creatures carry burs, to name only a few of the ways that animals serve plants. People can be the most helpful, though - distributing a species to every part of the globe, planting it by the millions, ensuring its survival and spread more than any other animal could hope to. All the plant has to do is get our attention.

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a strict doctrine of harmlessness is untenable, therefore to philosophically base vegetarianism on this doctrine is also untenable.

Practitioners of ahimsa are aware that 100% harmlessness is impossible. They aspire to minimize harm. They often state that eating plants still incurs karma; just not as much karma as eating animals.

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Overdependence on land-based food sources often lead to deficiencies in micronutrients and trace elements.

Phyto means Light and Plankton means Floating/Suspended. Scientists at NASA theorize that some 3 1/2 billion years ago, the world was changed forever. The appearance of tiny organisms with the ability to convert sunlight, warmth, water and minerals into protein, carbohydrates, vitamins and amino acids marked the beginning of life. Phytoplankton, the single-cell plants are the basis of all other life forms on planet earth, they are the 'vegetation' of the ocean. Phytoplankton are responsible for making up to 90% of Earth's oxygen. Phytoplankton are the food utilized by some of the world's largest and longest living animals and fish. Blue Whales, humpbacks, baleen whales and more all eat plankton and live between 80-150 years while maintaining great strength and endurance and are sexually active until they die.

Plankton have an alkaline pH, which is important, given the acidity of our diets high in refined sugars, soda pop, and farmed large animals. The high density of nutrients found in algae is extremely important for many reasons. Perhaps the most important (as noted above) is that these nutrients maintain human cell membranes in structure and function. This is vital for cell detoxification, and for the overall metabolism of human cells. In fact, the causes of diseases have been simplified to very specific mechanisms, all of which center on cell membrane function and structure. Inflammation, Oxidation, Toxicity, and Mitochondrial dysfunction keep cell membranes from doing their job effectively. Algae contain high levels of antioxidants, and anti-inflammatory micronutrients to fuel metabolism and detoxification. Also, they stoke the fires of the Mitochondria, where cells make energy required to carry out their function. Of course, photosynthesis is the mechanism whereby plants in general and algae in particular, harness life-sustaining solar energy. (J. Applied Phycology 1993;5:235.).

Dr. Robert Rowe Ph.D. - "...Our beliefs are even responsible for our genetic makeup. Your genes will change to meet your beliefs. To understand this concept better, read the book Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. There is a lot of solid scientific evidence to show that, on the smallest level, we are actually made up of light and energy, which we have at least some control over. And when we look at our world from this viewpoint, there is so much more to see and understand about its complexity, and it gives us more power over our destiny.

Dr. Jerry Tennant, M.D. - "One of those rare products that contains almost everything you need for life (and the rebuilding of a healthy life) is phytoplankton. It contains the nine amino acids that the body cannot make and must be consumed in our diet (essential amino acids). The essential fatty acids are also present (Omega 3 and Omega 6). Vitamins A (betacarotine), 81 (thiamine), 82 (riboflavin), 83 (niacin), 85 (pantothenic acid), 86 (pyridoxine), 812 (cobalamin), C, and D (tocopherol) and major and trace minerals are all present in phytoplankton. In short, it contains almost everything one needs to sustain life. Therefore, it contains almost everything one needs to restore health by providing the raw materials to make new cells that function normally. This is particularly true if one stops putting toxic materials such as artificial sweeteners and trans fats (partially hydrogenated fats) into our body."

Glyconutrients
Marine Phytoplankton is a rich source of glyconutrients which play an important role in good cell-to-cell communication. "Most of the Nobel prizes in Medicine and Biology have been awarded to the concept of “cell communication,” which is how our 100 trillion cells get their metabolic function coordinated (J. Science, November 26th, 2004.) They do this through a system of “messages,” which are well-known molecules like hormones, neurotransmitters, enzymes, etc. They form a vast network of communication, which should have never been separated into different components. The Psycho-Neuro-Immune-Endocrine system of cell communication to coordinate our metabolism is now considered to be the cornerstone of health and function in cutting edge research" Dr. Hugo Rodier (“The intricate interface between the immune system and metabolism,” J. Trends in Immunology 2004;25:193.)


Now, as a simple thought here, all of the largest animals on the planet ingest light in the form of plants.

The other side of the idea is that we ingest animals in a weak attempt to gain the nutrients that the animals have ingested. At its core it is laziness and lack of understanding that allows everyone to continue this push.

Just imagine eating someone simply because that someone had lived somewhere high in nutrients and your only access to those nutrients was to eat the person that ate them. This is all we are doing as far as the "nutrient" factor. To say we have to eat them for nutrients we have no other way to get is propagating a lie.

So lets see. Dropping you off in a remote jungle with no tools or weapons I suppose you would die. There is no way for you to run fast enough to catch an animal, or even the sort of teeth needed to cut through skin easily much less deal with the hair, no claws or fangs for rendering. I really think you would die from lack of knowledge rather than just eat the greens around you that most everything else naturally exist on. This shows you the separation between natural understanding and unnatural modern life. I will do fine even in an area full of poisonous plants. I have full use of natural senses and can easily tell what is safe to eat. Even including radiated substances.

Excellent post, Pickle! I validate all of this 100%.

Thank you for articulating this info so well. All true.