In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

yeah Monica i get free range eggs, they're everywhere

That's great!

i dunno why they sell the regular ones. i would never buy eggs if they weren't free range.

I agree!

but kitty food has chicken in some of the boxes,

Except for a few brands offering vegetarian kibble, all commercial cat and dog foods are meat-based. And the commercial brands have a lot of other noxious ingredients as well (such as sawdust, meat 'by-products' which is the meat that didn't pass inspection for human consumption due to disease, etc.). The commercial stuff is pretty nasty, in many ways besides the meat.

would it help to avoid those?

This is a difficult issue. From purely health reasons, some brands of cat/dog food are better than others. From an ethical perspective, unless one buys the vegetarian kibble, it's all the same. But being that cats and dogs are obviously carnivores, I can't say with certainty that putting them on a veggie diet is the way to go. As I said in my earlier post, I'm exploring this and working on transitioning them. I know of vegans who feed their dogs vegetarians kibble and they do fine, but I don't know much about vegetarian cats. I don't see why it would make any difference, other than the difference in their teeth which may be a clue. I am beginning to believe that, since they have chosen to live with us, on some level maybe they are choosing to evolve in the direction of being vegetarians. Just think what a difference this could make in their next lifetime when they're human! They could get their new 3D reality off to a great start!

Sorry I'm not able to give a simple yes or no answer on this. I'm still struggling with it.

Recently I saw a youtube video showing a guy offering some commercial meat-based dog food and some vegetarian kibble to a dog, and the dog chose the veg. stuff every time. Apparently he was selling some veg. dog food, but then at the end it just said 'coming soon' and gave no other info. The last time I tried the veg. dog food at the store, my dogs turned their noses up at it. I had to mix in a tiny bit with some other food just to get rid of it because they wouldn't eat it on their own. That was awhile back so maybe now I'll try it again.

i doubt pet food companies care about ethics, or do they?

I haven't seen any yet that do. It's gotten trendy now for all sorts of new brands of dog/cat food to pop up. The last time I went to Petsmart, I was amazed at the array of new brands that I've never seen before, some of them offering organic ingredients! For overall health, this is good, but I haven't researched these new brands to see if they claim better conditions for the animals.

As I've expressed, for humans, I see no point in eating 'humane' meat when we could easily just avoid meat altogether. But for animals, being that I haven't yet eliminated meat from my pets' diets, then I would much rather get them food that has meat from 'humanely' raised animals than from factory farmed animals. Until my animals are all vegetarians, it's a least a step in the right direction. So I am encouraged by these new brands and plan to check them out.

Bottom line is, I don't think we can just eliminate meat from our pets' diets, unless we really know what we're doing. I cannot claim to be there yet. I want to be sure that what I feed them is adequate. I know others are doing it successfully, so it's just a matter of education. I'm ready to get educated!

DW said he used to cough up flem a lot when he used dairy and i've had that same thing. whenever i eat cheese i start to produce snot a lot and get a cough.

Yeah me too. It seems to turn into glue.

David Wolfe hasn't to my knowledge written anything but i could check.

He does have some books, or at least one that I know of, something about Sun diet or something like that. I just wonder if he addresses the pet food issue. Maybe some of the raw vegan leaders have already figured this out and we're reinventing the wheel here!

how could almonds be illegal? are they the poisonous ones?

Almonds aren't poisonous, so its' nothing like that. The US FDA is so corrupt that it'll find any excuse to outlaw the healthiest foods, while allowing toxic drugs with severe side effects on the market. All it takes is one batch of some food to become contaminated, and they often require pasteurization. That's what happened with milk (it's illegal to get raw milk in the US) and that's what happened with almonds.

Almonds are among the healthiest foods one can eat! They're loaded with protein, minerals, the good fats, etc. Edgar Cayce said that a few almonds per day would keep cancer away. That's a pretty bold statement!

But now, all the almonds in the stores are pasteurized, which means they're pretty much worthless. However there is a loophole, and you can order truly raw, organic almonds online. There may be others, but the one I know of is livingnutz.com. You can read more about the almond situation on their website. Yes they cost more but are well worth it, in my opinion. A 10-pound bag is expensive but lasts a long time if one consumes, say, 1/2 cup or so per day.

i also get organic honey, though it doesn't say how they're treated. some organic honey tubs say they have left half for the bees.

It's amazing how we all mirror one another! I have felt some frustration that many meat-eaters seem unwilling to watch the slaughterhouse videos. I don't think a single person on this thread has come forth and said they actually watched them, for the purpose of getting educated on this issue. I think the only way to really be fair is to watch the videos, because that is the only way to truly comprehend what's happening, what they're supporting when they eat meat.

Whenever I feel frustration with other-selves, I try to remember to look in the mirror and find the part of myself that is being mirrored. And guess what I found? I have been just as guilty, in the area of bees and honey!

In the nearly 30 years of being a vegetarian, do you know I had never gotten educated about where honey comes from? Yeah, no kidding! Pretty absurd, really! I would generally refer to anyone who didn't eat meat, eggs or dairy as vegan, but actually, in its purest sense, a vegan also avoids...honey! In fact, someone has coined a new term for 'vegans' who eat honey - beegan!

I never understood what all the fuss was about concerning honey. I mean, after all, it's a gift from our bee friends, right? Just like eggs from chickens? I even - get this - thought very strict vegans to be...ahem... a little extremist by being so strict on avoiding honey!

I mean, gosh, meat is gross so of course I won't vegetable soup if it has chicken broth in it. And there's no way I could just pick the pepperoni off the pizza - yikes it has been tainted! But to avoid an otherwise vegan muffin because it was made with honey? I smirked, just as the meat-eaters smirk when I refuse to eat that tainted pizza. That's going too far! That's...that's...that's so extremist!

Well, lo and behold, my eyes have been opened! Recently, because of my garden and because of becoming aware of the disappearing bees - a major threat to continued existence on this planet - I have gotten interested in beekeeping. I'm a little scared, but intrigued, and feel a pull towards doing my part to save the bees (and humans since something like 80% of all human food depends on bees).

And I've been horrified - just horrified - to learn of the atrocious methods that are considered standard in the beekeeping industry!

Did you know that bees are commonly given sugar water, while their honey is stolen? And they are smoked out of their hive whenever the beekeeper needs to tend the hive? And entire hives are routinely shipped across the country, to pollinate orchards?

These and other practices are disrespectful to the bees, as well as disorienting. Consequently, because of these practices as well as cell phones, EMF's, pesticides and other factors, these precious and crucially needed allies are disappearing in droves! They are succumbing to viruses and mites, and just plain disappearing, which has scientists baffled.

But, apparently, the local backyard beekeepers have no such problems! Their bees are, for the most part, just fine!

The backyard beekeepers might use the smoking method and other practices I find objectionable, but overall, they are treating their bees much better. I would liken them to the 'humane' farmers who are trying to do better than their commercial counterparts.

Some backyard beekeepers have taken it a step further and have developed ways to partner with bees that show them respect. They don't use smokers. They don't steal the bees' honey and replace it with sugar water, but harvest only the excess. They are providing safe havens for the bees so that the bees can survive. It's a growing movement and I want to be a part of it (if I can muster up the courage!).

So, for now, what I'm doing is purchasing only local honey from small-scale beekeepers. I can't say with 100% certainty that the bees were treated optimally, but most likely they were treated waaaaaay better than the commercial bees. Small-scale beekeeper usually genuinely love their bees. Whereas, the commercial beekeeping practices are akin to factory farming.

Generally, avoid any 'grade A' honey in the regular grocery stores. Whenever you can find raw honey, not only is it healthier, but it was probably produced by a small-scale beekeeper who loves and respects his bees. It still might not be totally cruelty-free. I don't know enough about this yet to really give a conclusive answer. But, I do know that the survival of 3D life on this planet depends largely on backyard beekeepers.