07-24-2011, 09:31 AM
Yes, i have read parts of the Quran many times. And no im not a muslim. But i still know a thing or two.
First, there is no sura called "Tevbe". I think you mean "Tawbah" or "Tobah" which means repentance. A reget for a past action.
I would also like to start with the fact that yes, you can interpret Quran because evidently there are numerous explanations of the text.
It is true that the Quran has all of those rules that are supposed to guide a person in his daily life. Remember that these rules were sent to human beings in the desert more than a thousand years ago. Back then, people pillaged, raped, killed and commited crazy deeds like slavery and worst. These sort of actions are adressed in the Quran, and especially in "Al-Tawbah" Sura simply for a cause of instilling some order into the minds of men.
When this holy book came and told people that there is order even in what you may portray as chaos, it was a revolutionary idea. Instead of people waging wars and raids randomly, motivated and driven by loot and power only, a form of order came in to try and lessen the distortion of the people at those times in that area and region.
I fully understand why the Quran would tell us how to divide slaves and loot between each other. I can also fully understand why the Quran sets and defines the Women's value and place in society. At those times, like today, the distortion of female inferiority existed, and male superiority too. When you put an outline to those in a way that is no longer as offensive and cruel as before, then yes, it is portrayed as positive.
There is no argue as to whether negative influence was present in the channeling / making up of the Quran. Because it is evidently there. But, there is a point i tend to argue about and that is whether the Quran has positive teachings or not. And it does.
Al Tawbah 9:5
"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
Eeven though the relationship between a Muslim believer and a polytheist is further explained in earlier ayat and parts of the Quran. This is a good example that you decided to use. It is not a secret that nonbelievers are wrongdoers in the Quran, but if they should repent, then the outcome is totally positive. Clearly, there was a need, in the opinion of the channeling entity, for the instillation of order in the chaotic desert. People who were polytheists back then, were far away from even getting close to acknowledge the Law of One. Islam, is just one step which could be final also, towards the one.
I know that alot of muslims support this method of thought whch you emphasize on, that the Quran is god's unchanged words and that everythign written in it, is 100% true and relevant. I also know alot of muslims who think differently. I am not inclined and limited to believe in a manner and way that seem primitive to me. Just as the old testament, i know that its full of horror and negativity, but i also know that it is full of positive teachings too.
All the parts that you quoted are totally positive in my opinion. If again, you look at the time period of which they were more relevant to.
No matter what, the Quran is full of positive teachings. I can provide examples perhaps later or in another thread.
Oh and i do want to note something that you have opened my eyes to. It is totally probable that Mohammad was a negative 6d wanderer as you said and which was the cause of our arguement. But then we went on to argue about the positivity of the holy book itself. I would have attempted to "defend" any other teaching that was positive in my opinion. I dont take the Quran lightly. In my opinion, the Quran has EVERYTHING in it. And i do mean everything. Even explanations about planes of existance and extraterrestrial life. Light frequencies, astral entities, social and philosophical ideas and also, society rules that are the "negative" part of the Quran which is not negative in my opinion if you consider the time frame.
I would also like to note that disinformation about "Jihad" is much too common.
Thank you.
First, there is no sura called "Tevbe". I think you mean "Tawbah" or "Tobah" which means repentance. A reget for a past action.
I would also like to start with the fact that yes, you can interpret Quran because evidently there are numerous explanations of the text.
It is true that the Quran has all of those rules that are supposed to guide a person in his daily life. Remember that these rules were sent to human beings in the desert more than a thousand years ago. Back then, people pillaged, raped, killed and commited crazy deeds like slavery and worst. These sort of actions are adressed in the Quran, and especially in "Al-Tawbah" Sura simply for a cause of instilling some order into the minds of men.
When this holy book came and told people that there is order even in what you may portray as chaos, it was a revolutionary idea. Instead of people waging wars and raids randomly, motivated and driven by loot and power only, a form of order came in to try and lessen the distortion of the people at those times in that area and region.
I fully understand why the Quran would tell us how to divide slaves and loot between each other. I can also fully understand why the Quran sets and defines the Women's value and place in society. At those times, like today, the distortion of female inferiority existed, and male superiority too. When you put an outline to those in a way that is no longer as offensive and cruel as before, then yes, it is portrayed as positive.
There is no argue as to whether negative influence was present in the channeling / making up of the Quran. Because it is evidently there. But, there is a point i tend to argue about and that is whether the Quran has positive teachings or not. And it does.
Al Tawbah 9:5
"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
Eeven though the relationship between a Muslim believer and a polytheist is further explained in earlier ayat and parts of the Quran. This is a good example that you decided to use. It is not a secret that nonbelievers are wrongdoers in the Quran, but if they should repent, then the outcome is totally positive. Clearly, there was a need, in the opinion of the channeling entity, for the instillation of order in the chaotic desert. People who were polytheists back then, were far away from even getting close to acknowledge the Law of One. Islam, is just one step which could be final also, towards the one.
I know that alot of muslims support this method of thought whch you emphasize on, that the Quran is god's unchanged words and that everythign written in it, is 100% true and relevant. I also know alot of muslims who think differently. I am not inclined and limited to believe in a manner and way that seem primitive to me. Just as the old testament, i know that its full of horror and negativity, but i also know that it is full of positive teachings too.
All the parts that you quoted are totally positive in my opinion. If again, you look at the time period of which they were more relevant to.
No matter what, the Quran is full of positive teachings. I can provide examples perhaps later or in another thread.
Oh and i do want to note something that you have opened my eyes to. It is totally probable that Mohammad was a negative 6d wanderer as you said and which was the cause of our arguement. But then we went on to argue about the positivity of the holy book itself. I would have attempted to "defend" any other teaching that was positive in my opinion. I dont take the Quran lightly. In my opinion, the Quran has EVERYTHING in it. And i do mean everything. Even explanations about planes of existance and extraterrestrial life. Light frequencies, astral entities, social and philosophical ideas and also, society rules that are the "negative" part of the Quran which is not negative in my opinion if you consider the time frame.
I would also like to note that disinformation about "Jihad" is much too common.
Thank you.