Logoi and Co-creators

[3D Sunset]

I am afraid you missed my point. You're totally right every thing you state happens at some point in space time. But these creatures are not pigs. These avian hogs are neither descended from or ancestors to our earthly more pedestrian pigs.

In other words. If I take a random pig from our terrestrial stock. Then both it's future and past are undefined. The closer we come to the now the more certain we are about the things that lead up to or originate from our pig.

For example I might know for a fact that the pig stole an apple pie yesterday. I also know that it will eventually end up on someones plate. Although that latter bit is less certain. I know that aeons past the ancestors to this pig were wild hogs. I don't know where they were or what they were doing like I know what the pig is doing now. And I know that in future times the ancestors of this pig wil likely evolve into something different. I do know for a fact that nothing could have happened in the past that would make this pig impossible. It's ancestors were not at some point wiped out. It's ancestors did not grow into birds. And they certainly did not learn to make their own apple pies.

Neither in future, nor past for this particular pig is this pig avian. With the exception that I mentioned earlier. It might actually evolve wings over time. We will call that thing differently our pig was the ancestor for the avian pig but it will not be an avian pig itself.

It might sound far fetched or odd to look at it like this. I see a symmetry with self. Just like the pig has a kind of local truth that limits its manifestation. I too have a local truth. I do not manifest as you. Because I manifest as me. Manifesting as you would exclude my experience as self and since I experience that I exist this cannot be.

This may be a good topic for another thread, but I still think that all your above statements about what can/did/could happen are foundationally based upon how things work in our current Logos. I am simply suggesting that these rules do not apply in other Logoi of which we can only imagine. And in an infinite universe of infiinate Logoi, there is a lot of room for not just everything we can image, but an awful lot that we can't.

Isn't that invoking the god of statistics? I'm usually a big fan by the way. But it seems to me that a chance for something to happen means there is a reason for that something to happen. Without the reason the chance would be zero.. I want to know the reason, I know it must be there because it happened. The chance that it happened can be everything between one and zero. Actually excluding zero itself since we know it happened.

Granted it is invoking the god of statistics, but that seemed like the most convenient way to agree that there is a solution to the question "Why did God choose to experience himself.", and move on. My point was that if the probability is not zero (as it clearly isn't, because we exist), then it must eventually happen in an infinite universe. There actually needn't be an underlying reason other than that.

As to the possible underlying reason, I personally like the idea that unity for ever and ever and ever and ever eventually gets boring. God wanted to spice up his existence a little bit or maybe he just wanted a vacation from all that perfect harmony, or maybe our Logos is the result of a cosmic burp. All kidding aside, I strongly resonate with the idea that the need to create or manifest is inherent in Godliness. These and similar argument simply put the probability closer to 1 than 0 though, the effect is the same. It had to happen eventually and so it did.

I agree! But the question is not so much how did it happen.. The question is why did it happen?

I know that this answer is not satisfying for you, but the above argument applies here as well, by extension. I think that it may be better than you think at first blush though, because there is, in my experience a very close relationship between the how's and the why's of existence.

It seems to me that given infinity to play with the parameters, I think this is a pretty decent approach for creating a stage on which specs of consciousness can act and interact. But hey, that's just me.

However it fails to explain why I experience me, and not you. Without my conscious experience I would be an automaton, like the ball in the pinball machine. And the machine would work. Ball consciousness is not required for the machine to function. The ball will remain in play Insha'Allah, or the ball will exit the game, Insha'Allah.

If the ball had consciousness then it might have a tremendous time between being launched and leaving the game. Or it might hate every second of it. The player won't notice because the ball's consciousness has no effect..

Consciousness must have an effect. Why am I me? What is the effect of this that made it a requirement?

[quote]I'm not clear on the subject yet. It might seem I'm looking for a strange problem here. But I've been stuck on it for the last ten or more years. I never was able to figure out why I would experience this self and not some other self. Or why I experience now, and not my future or past self.

The alien part of my psyche came from a place where this wall is much less strong. To know everything about an individual you'd only need to focus your attention on them. This individualisation phase that humans have excelled at is a bit lost to them. Which is part of why I'm here. It appears to be an important part of the earth experiment. This gives me the feeling that it's odd for us spiritual types to want to rush out of this unique state so quickly back to the more common state of unity. Are we perhaps leaving Aladdin's cave without retrieving the lamp?

Hopefully this gives you some insight in my underlying motivations for asking the question.

It does, thank you! . I have a few passing thoughts that may or may not be relevant, but I want to share them nonetheless:

Ra talks about our Logos choosing aspects of our bodies in order to thicken the veil. For example by creating the opposable thumb, it became easier to make tools rather than harness the power of our minds. I find the idea of a thicker veil intriguing, and am frustrated by its existence daily. But back to how/why dichotomy(?), I can see that the thicker veil can have the effect of increasing the richness of our experiences both before and after we penetrate it.

It also would appear that by working in consciousness as we do, we each are stretching or weakening different portions of our veils. You are currently pushing on that portion which hides the underlying reasons of "why". I am confident that you will eventually reach a satisfactory answer to that.

I am frequently struck by the sensation that I only just this instant entered my consciousness. Like everything was a paused video waiting for me to enter this scene and hit play. For just that moment, I genuinely know that all my memories are conveniently contrived to give me context in which to experience that very moment. I also know that in the next moment I will flash over to someone else that is someplace else. But for that moment I am there and I have an entire history and future that I can revel in, and I do. Whenever I have these moments of lucidity (as I call them), I make a point of really focusing on what's happening in and around me. What I find most fascinating is that these moments always occur at what seems the most mundane instants. Perhaps there is true profundity in the mundane.

When I was growing up I had a belief/feeling/intuition/fantasy that there were really on two entities in the world. They were me and my father. In this fantasy my father moved quicker than the speed of light and took on the roles of every other person in the world. Every conversation that I had was really a conversation with my father. Everything I did, I did with my father, and through our constant interaction he was helping me learn. At the end of the day, when I would see my father playing the role of himself, I always marveled at how well he kept up the charade. Eventually, I came to realize that my father in this fantasy was really me, and that I was even playing him. I came to this realization at about age 15. This was as close to a spiritual epiphany as I've ever had, but the close feeling of familiarity with everyone resides in me still.

Good talking to you, Dad.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset