Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods

[Bring4th_Austin]

I don't think that is what the main debate between gradual and instant is about though. The gateway to intelligent infinity will open, somehow, someway, for all to access at a given point. Whether this means it becomes available to them in passing to time/space (through mechanism of harvest or naturally), or within incarnation, or some way we can't comprehend, is unknown.

there is no obligation of being disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact, as the entities harvested prior to the cycle prove. tho majority of these have harvested themselves in negative fashion, since during a time in which sufficient energies are not available, these entities could only amass the energy needed for contact by being negative. however, these entities have not only contacted infinite intelligence in negative way, but they are also incarnate. (some of them were told to be still incarnated in 1981). this means, the did not die for infinite intelligence contact to happen.

There's no obligation, sure, but that doesn't mean it will be forced up incarnated entities. It could, or it couldn't.

"Due to harvest," yes, it's possible that if harvest is instant, these inconveniences will simply stop and things will be fine, or if harvest is gradual, the increasing harmony among the society complex will gradually cause the inconveniences to end.

im at a loss to understand how this 'harvest is gradual' thing still going on, after all the quotes have been given.

I can't help you very much there. You have the idea already in your head what you think harvest is, but you can't expect people to agree with you when there are other interpretations on the matter. The quotes you've provided, in my eyes, are not conclusive in the least. And like I've said, just because you don't agree with other interpretations doesn't mean they don't exist.

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Now it's certainly possible for "ceasing" to be a discontinuity, but that's not universal. Something can gradually phase out...when it starts phasing out, it "begins to cease," and when it's done phasing out, it has ceased. You can apply this example to countless things. The 3D vibes "began to cease" years ago, yet they haven't completely ceased yet. It could mean either, yet when the phrase "begins to cease" is used, I'd bet that it means that it only begins to cease, and doesn't completely cease until later.

That is all well and good, but EVEN IF it were true, all it does is put off the event until later, when the "3D vibes" completely cease. There is still a final moment, now it is just punted into the future. When the final moment arrived, we would be in the exact same position we find ourselves now with respect to a final parting of ways.

At the final moment of ceasing, it could be a seamless gradual shift or a major, noticeable shift. The idea that it has to be "punted" into the future is your own.

And so, there has to be some mechanism by with this separation is achieved. Some say the only possible mechanism is normal physical death. Well, OK, that's fine I guess. I'm not sure why it is so upsetting to consider other possibilities, but IF IN FACT it is true, then the only viable conclusion is that, at the end of the supposed "phase" or winding down, everybody who is left must perish in a global cataclysm.

I don't think it's upsetting to consider other possibilities. The idea that one side of this debate is denying the other because it is upsetting to them is presumptuous on both sides. It seems to be a fallback tactic of projecting ideas on the other side to help justify their stance in your mind. It's rather easy for me to imagine a scenario where there is no instant shift or global cataclysm. It's a possible scenario, not the scenario I have concluded harvest will be like: children being born now are dual bodied, all 3D entities alive now die naturally in the next 70-80 years, now or some point in the future all disincarnate entities are offered intelligent infinity to decide whether to be harvested, and those entities which die in the near future will be offered the same thing upon their passing. The dual bodies continue to incarnate, and continue to manifest 4D sphere/bodies/society, and at some point in the next 100-700 years (Ra's own estimation), 3D has been gradually phased out without any instant, noticeable event.

It's not the only possible scenario, but it fits in with Ra's words.

Population Earth: 7 billion... 6 billion... 2 billion... 1 billion... 100 million... 1 million... 1 hundred thousand... 1 thousand... 1 hundred, ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one........ ZERO.

What about 4D Earth, which is already inhabited by the dual bodied individuals (who also inhabit 3D Earth)? Those people have to be around to create 4D bodies.

The gradualist argument doesn't circumvent the fact that 3D earth will cease to exist at some point. All it does it add a somewhat absurd end phase where babies mysteriously stop being born, and the population "naturally" dwindles down to the last ten survivors frantically running around the planet looking for food.

Not at all

I would imagine that 3D work is basically done here as it is, and 3D entities are no longer incarnating. Dual bodied entities are 4D entities incarnating into a "less dense body." So I agree, I doubt any 3D entity would want to incarnate here after 3D vibes cease to stream, but I don't think the 3D plane will simply disappear, and thought-forms will hold it together until purged.

Until purged? What is this purging of which you speak?

Dual bodied individuals transform our 3D ways and thought-forms to better fit a 4D society, eventually society has become a 4D society through the efforts of 4D individuals incarnating in dual bodies. At that point, 4D bodies are done evolving and society has successfully rid itself of 3D ways.

I don't think that's very clear...

I don't know how it could be stated any clearer. I think you are making apples out of bananas here.

You yourself were questioning it. I was agreeing with you.

it's possible that simply 3D vibes will completely cease to instream at that point, but that doesn't mean that they'll be gone from space/time. We know that it's going to be a gradual shift to the 4D sphere and to 4D bodies, that is one thing Ra was rather clear about

Nothing about this quote changes the fact that there will be a moment when the 3D sphere "completely" ceases to exist.

But you are automatically assuming that moment will be a grand event instead of a seamless and unnoticeable happening. Ra never said that.

I don't think that is what the main debate between gradual and instant is about though. The gateway to intelligent infinity will open, somehow, someway, for all to access at a given point. Whether this means it becomes available to them in passing to time/space (through mechanism of harvest or naturally), or within incarnation, or some way we can't comprehend, is unknown.

Certainly, there are several unknowns. However it is known that the contact with intelligent infinity CAN be made within incarnation, as Ra stated that those who contact intelligent infinity can be harvested at will at any time during the cycle.

Just because it can be doesn't mean that it will be forced upon people. It's possible it will be available in space/time, or that it will be made available upon the entities transition into time/space.

Here's some tricky wording which definitely offers some room for interpretation. Ra says "continue unabated." Unabated means without reduction in intensity. So it's very possible Ra was saying that the intensity of the inconveniences will continue for 30 years then gradually slow down, or possibly stop completely. "Due to harvest," yes, it's possible that if harvest is instant, these inconveniences will simply stop and things will be fine, or if harvest is gradual, the increasing harmony among the society complex will gradually cause the inconveniences to end.

We shall see. However, I still don't see a reason for things to continue going on for very long post-harvest. This is a planetary-wide event. Human beings are like microbes living in the membranous film on the surface of the planet. When it goes, we go.

A gradualist view is very human-centric. We think that the universe somehow cares that little Timmy will never get the chance to grow up and become a baseball star, or that Jane won't ever get to have her fairy-tale princess wedding, or that Gandalf the cat didn't quite make it to the next level. So because we can't imagine that there is more to life outside of our own little dramas, we would rather lie to ourselves and believe that the whole entire universe is going to wait for every last person to get their act together.

You are again projecting ideas onto the other side of the debate, assuming that every person who believes it to be a gradual event has arrived there because of some mindset. You don't know every single one personally, and you don't know their reasons. Some probably do care that Timmy will never get the chance to grow up, but that's not the only logical reason one could arrive at that conclusion. It's possible they've simply interpreted Ra's words that way, or listened to Q'uo (if Q'uo could be brought into this debate, it would be over in moments and "gradualists" would win).

Harvest is a gift. To view it as an act of heartless cruelty on the part of the universe because we will be separated from our loved ones says a lot about where somebody's head it at. It kind of flies in the face of everything Ra is talking about in the Law of One.

I seriously don't think anyone here feels that way. They may. But you are definitely assuming a lot of things here and projecting ideas onto the other side of the debate. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they have some bias in place preventing them from doing so.