Share your vision for the harvest

[Bring4th_Austin]

Ra does not define these limits, so we have to define them ourselves. You define your's more logically than someone who would still be waiting after 50 years, but since the limits are not defined in the material, it is personal judgement. And it would simply be opinion to call that other person's judgement flawed.

ra defines these limits, sometimes explicitly by telling them, according to our timescale, because they are talking into OUR perception of time and measurements.

ranging from orion entry into planet being corrected after the mistake they made, to 100-700 years given for a transition, every time unit or scale or probability given were given in our scales. not theirs. they were not told to be left to the discretion of the reader either.

Ra never said "whenever we say 'approximately' regarding a date, it means within 5 years." Yes, they're using human time, but many people have different ideas of what approximately might mean. It's a relative term. If the limits were defined, the response would have been "Yes, the moment of harvest will happen sometime between 2010 and 2015." THAT is definition of the limits. Approximate limits are relative.

wherever there is ANY kind of probability, they have mentioned it. there are no exceptions. this even goes for the case of potential futures for this planet. there were probabilities, and the most likely ones were talked about.

Right, exactly, "most likely" probability does not mean "definitely." It explicitly leaves room for other probabilities. Not probabilities regarding the mechanic of harvest, but the date of harvest, which is what I'm talking about.

Do any of these rule out the possibility that harvest happens in a certain moment, but entities incarnated in space/time will not experience it until they die? I think I might have a different idea of what "gradualist" might mean than others. To me, a "gradual" harvest is one that simply allows for the entities within incarnation to die a natural death before they are harvested. So harvest happens, entities not in incarnation are harvested at that moment, and then as the entities within incarnation die, they are harvested...so it only lasts as long as it takes that generation to die. And it's possible that 3D entities were done incarnating years ago, meaning that the last of the pure 3D entities would be gone in less than a life-time. New entities being born would be harvested entities in 3D/4D bodies. That is as gradual as I see the material allowing for. Besides the "probability/possibility" thing, that is the ambiguity I talk about.

what's ruling out the possibility you speak of - apart from intelligent infinity contact not being something passing by unnoticed

Unless this contact only happens once one passes into time/space.

is the choice of words used when referring to entities harvestable, and harvested in the past. as i mentioned there, word 'harvested' used for any entity which undergoes process of contacting intelligent infinity and dying and getting placed in a 4d continuum, or, any entity that dies, gets harvested through harvest method at the end of cycle, and then gets placed in a 4d continuum. for ALL others, 'harvestable' wordage was used.

I'm still not quite grasping how this would inhibit the scenario I proposed. Entities will be harvested upon death, and will be harvestable in incarnation. In this harvest, one doesn't have to be "harvestable" to get harvested, they'll simply be placed in another 3D continuum. How does the difference between being harvested and being harvestable prevent one from being harvested only once they die naturally?

I'm talking about what happens at the "moment" of harvest, or when harvest "starts." Basically, the description Ra gives of harvest as the testing to see what incarnation nexus is appropriate. I'm not talking about the mechanisms surrounding harvest, I'm talking about harvest itself and how it is experienced, and whether it is experienced by people in incarnation.

what people experience, is a direct result of mechanism of harvest. it is not a subconscious event that goes unnoticed.

Right, of course if one is harvested they would know, but in the scenario at the moment harvest happens, the masses of unincarnated souls are harvested, and then the souls in incarnation are harvested upon natural death. Harvest strikes in a moment, and it would not be possible to not be harvested after the generation alive during harvest dies.

#1 for any entity to be deemed harvestable DURING incarnation, the entity needs to have made contact with intelligent infinity in its conscious self. it doesnt need to contact intelligent infinity by trying for it consciously - but the entity should be conscious when it made the contact.

#2 for any entity that is harvested, the entity is placed in violet body after death. im at a loss to see why some of you are missing to delve into these seemingly tiny bits of information despite they being critical and then getting sidetracked by other things. here :

there is great possibility in order for an entity to be placed in violet body, to have died. the entity will be placed in entirely violet body in order to access its harvestability. an entity in incarnation, with its 3d body active, and the proper astral counterpart active for that body, is very likely not to be able to be placed in violet body. therein lies the necessity of introducing the harvest 'anomaly' after death, so that entity is placed into violet body even before it is placed into indigo body.

I'm definitely not disagreeing that death is necessary for harvest. I'm just wondering why the death would have to be forced instead of natural.

What explicitly in Ra is denying the idea that this event that happens will force entities out of incarnation to be harvested? While the major event happens in a moment, and all the entities not in incarnation at that moment are harvested (which is what Ra explicitly stated), and then, as a result of that event, entities leaving incarnation will have the opportunity to be harvested.

"Regardless of progress" could easily just mean that the entities who have not polarized enough to experience the next density will also be harvested, because they wouldn't have been affected by the first two harvests. Basically it would mean "we take the 3D entities out of here because this ships turning 4D and they can't handle it." Do you feel the only option is that the 3D entities incarnate now are forced out of incarnation to be harvested?

leaving aside the important factors i explained in #1 and #2, harvest at the end of third cycle is an all encompassing event that is of cosmic level. it is not something that you can have 'options' with. 'all are harvested regardless of progress' is what was told. its not something that is left to choice of the entity. and if all are harvested in that fashion, #1 and #2 apply.

It's basically what I said, "we take all the 3D entities out of here because this ships turning 4D and they can't handle it." I'm not trying to say anyone has a choice to stay with Earth after they die. I'm saying when Ra says "all are harvested regardless of progress," "harvested" possibly happens after they die naturally, whether ready for 4D or not.

I figured the 3D entities who had not become harvestable would probably live the rest of their lives in a state of "depression," or scared...their ability to function waning with 3D vibes and 3D thoughtforms.

what you speak of would be more a reason to take them out of incarnation, because the situation you describe would destabilize their balance in ways that would require a few incarnations to rebalance. that, is basically torture.

I think it would simply halt their progress rather than destabilize their balance. The instreaming 3D vibrations are nearly non-existent as it is, so it wouldn't be much different after they disappear completely. There still plenty of 3D vibrations here in society to allow them to survive without completely shutting down. 4D would cause them to face aspects of themselves and others that harvestable entities have already faced and accepted in universal love. This wouldn't be comfortable, but it wouldn't be torture. Besides, if the Logos was worried about torturing entities, it's already messed up pretty bad with this reality.

I again thought the "fast" change was a part of the gradualist standpoint. Just not an instant change. 3D thoughtforms and ideas are purged from society in the next 100-700 years, which the 3Ders are long-gone by that point, because none were incarnating even before harvest actually happened. The dual-bodies are left to change society. That was my view of gradual.

and that gradualist perspective falls in many respects. the simplest being the population decline rate necessary to accomplish that. and for that they assume that 3d entities are being born into 3-4d bodies (which was a wrong misconception due to what i mentioned) in the rates of 60 million, along with harvested entities.

I don't think that population decline as an act of synchronicity would be out of the question, if population decline is really necessary.

But Ra said starting with 3D bodies, gradually becoming 4D bodies. In a gradual standpoint, they could easily become more and more aware of the 4D plane as they evolve. The body evolution will likely mimic very closely the mind evolution of society. The 4D sphere could seamlessly replace the 3D sphere as seamlessly as bodies evolve. An entity at either end of the transition would notice a major difference.

Would the body be directly related to what the mind perceived? Perhaps an entity could perceive 4D just as well as their "more evolved" daughter, and with each generation 3D is shed a bit more as the societal mind perceives 4D more and more.

therein lies the problem - you are still seeing the dimension differences from a perspective of 'awareness'. it is not just 'awareness' anymore. these are real, physical stuff. there are real physical implementations of this change. ranging from genetics of the bodies to the dimensionality properties of 4d sphere. just 'becoming more aware' would not be the case. there will be physical issues. it is not something that is just relevant to mind or awareness. at one point, the genetic properties of a transitional body will be different than the already born generations before it to a major extent. ranging from their food necessities to how they react to various different substances eaten.

I'm not saying that the 4D is just awareness, I'm talking about becoming more aware of the 4D material. Obviously there will be children born with different genetics and different material, and there's no clear explanation of how this evolution happens in the material. They will probably not react well to foods of lower vibration...they'll simply stop eating them.

How do you interpret the gradual evolution of 4D bodies if not gradual?