Understanding Carla's challenge in the name of Christ

[Lavazza]

Cheers GLB, you have never come across as disrespectful, quite the contrary. And your response was a pleasure to read I too am very proud of our forum and the discourse that it promotes, especially when we are able to disagree and keep the peace (a rarity on the internet, just examine any youtube comment column as a comparison.. lol!)

We definitely see the same thing differently, which is only natural in a subjective existence as we exist in. For example, I see the color blue... how do I know that what other people call blue is really the same hue that I am seeing?

Not in the spirit of attempting to win an argument, I think it might be fun to further look at this notion of believability, again with the example of an advanced civilization on Venus some millions (or billions?) of years ago. The paradigm upsetters you listed certainly are exactly that. Any of those would send shock waves through society, but amazingly almost all of them are scientifically viable. Lets take a look at each one, and then I'll try and show why I think an ancient Venusian civilization is more plausible then moon bases (for fun of course, I am not trying to tell anyone they are 'wrong'... just my views. Ok, enough with the disclaimers):

You would have to accept that:

a) Intelligent, conscious life on other planets is possible

This is actually something that most people actually accept as true these days. Nobody knows where they are, what they're like, if we'll ever find them, etc., but the very size and scope of the universe demands that life as we know it surely must exist elsewhere. The famous Drake equation speaks to this, and there are viable programs in science more or less centered on the pursuit of ET life, such as the SETI program and the Kepplar telescope which was made for the purpose of finding Earth like planets.

b) Consciousness, not matter is primary

This is not proven, but is highly suggested by Quantum Mechanics. Not many people in the general public really understand what QM is really about, and even scientists themselves do not fully understand all of the workings of QM, but nevertheless QM has be proven to be true so many times that it has become accepted as fact in physics. Not just this, but the accuracy to which QM works is so fine that you can make the analogy of being able to measure the length of the North American continent with an error range of the width of a human hair. The fun part is, there are elements of QM that materialistic science calls 'Spooky'. For example, the famous double-slit experiment. Is it a particle or a wave? Or the concept of Quantum entanglement, that is to say that if you influence the spin of a particle, it's entangled partner will automatically begin spinning in that same direction. It doesn't matter if the particles are in the same room together, or if they are on opposite ends of the universe, it's all instantaneous, and consciousness driven. As odd as it may seem, consciousness is beginning to look like the foundation of the universe, not matter, and science is being forced to accept this because of the amazing accuracy and reliablitiy of quantum calculations.

c) Telepathy is not only possible but natural

Another paradigm buster, for sure. However these things have been tested and proven in science, albeit not yet accepted in the mainstream due to a rather sizable taboo in our system. Dean Radin and others have carried these experiments out with great scientific care to eliminate other possible explanations at the institute of Noetic sciences.

Dean Radin at Google: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_o...c_Sciences
http://www.noetic.org/

d) Shared memory is possible

This is of course not proven, however the functioning of Quantum mechanics and the viability of telepathy, precognition, clairvoyance and other things (in my view) allows for this to be true as well. It's worth mentioning a project called 'The Global Consciousness' project that is based out of Princeton university. It's a long explanation, but in short it measures the effect that collective humanity's consciousness has on random number generators, at moments where the world is focused on something (like Obama's inauguration, Princess Diana's funeral, 9/11 and so on). The result is that yes, the collective consciousness does have an effect which effectively shows mind over matter interaction. This is still not shared memory, but it is it's next door neighbor in my opinion.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

e) We are currently experiencing a curriculum of spiritual evolution in an infinite creation of eternity and spaceless-ness

This will probably never be proven by science, but there are many, many sources that point to this (past life and in-between life regression, NDE, as well as a host of other things).

Michael Newton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo
Dannion Brikley: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...7569&hl=es#

f) Space and Time are nothing as we conceive of them

This is also commonly accepted among the leading minds in science, (not so much your average Joe). Einstein showed that time and space are both highly malleable with general and special relativity as the most basic example... Individuals who study the big bang, quantum mechanics, string theory, dark matter, dark energy, black holes, galactic interactions, gravity, theoretical particles and so forth all must accept that time and space are not what they seem to be in order to make any progress in their respective fields.

Now as to aliens living on Venus a long time ago, sure, it sounds like a big stretch. Until we recall that planets are ever changing, "living" (in a loose sense) things that have a tendency to eliminate all traces of whatever activity entities may have enjoyed there. There was a documentary on this History channel a while back, called 'Life after People'. The concept was that one day, all humans suddenly just disappear. How long would it take for Earth to reclaim the world? Surprisingly, things like roads don't even last more than 20-40 years before being reduced to rubble by plants. The tallest and sturdiest buildings fall over in 100 years. And the sturdiest man made object of all time, the Hoover Dam, will fall apart in 1000 years. Metals and other things like that rot too, eventually, although it takes much longer for that to happen. In short, eventually there will be absolutely no trace that we were ever here. This is what I suspect happened on Venus (if it ever happened... see, the heretic hat just came on again! )

So, with all of those responses in mind, can we extend the same plausibility towards moon bases? The problem and (one of) the key differences is that I see is that it is not beyond our ability to disprove. We can't go back in time to examine Venus as it was during Ra's hayday, but we can look at the moon, and indeed even the dark side of the moon. Where are the bases? Subterranean moon bases then? Cloaking device hidden bases? Even those things might be possible, but what is the more likely explanation? That the government is hiding super futuristic, amazingly high-tech capabilities and has special bases on the moon or under the oceans, or that the comment made by Ra (for whatever reason, confusion, distortion, fill in the blank) was not correct? Or lets examine the logical errors, if we have what I would call such high technology as to have secret bases on the moon, why are we still pouring billions of dollars in to space shuttle technology at NASA? Or the ISS (international space station)? With a government that gets sooo caught up with money problems when it comes to balancing the budget or passing new bills, providing health care, etc. does it make any sense at all to continue funding obsolete space technology? The implications of the government having moon bases are so large and so far reaching... the only way they could possibly exist is a government cover-up so far reaching and widespread, and so fundamentally top secret as to be only possible in a work of fiction.

On the other hand, if a negative entity wished to discredit a group that was seeking to publish spiritual information, it might be a great topic to being up. Don and company were able to recognize this, which is why the information didn't get included in the original release of The Law of One books.

We live in a crazy world, could be that I'm way off, I can't prove a negative so we may never know! In fact, it would be cool if it WERE true, just so I could feel less confused about what Ra spoke of in the eighties. Untill that happens, I'm just not on board with it. Again, just what I believe, not a better or worse belief than what anyone else holds as true.

I love you all!