"Thrive" is amazing must watch!

[zenmaster]

(uh, we all want free energy, but are not willing to invent it but rather be parasites of entitlement or, as Ra says "hitchhikers").

How can you not see this... people HAVE been willing to invent free energy. And they have been shut down and/or murdered in every case.

I call BS...

Ever heard of Eugene Mallove?

Yes, I follow the "fringe". I do not buy into the tenuous innuendo, however.

Who are you helping by railing against any and all attempts to talk about these things?

Railing against. I call it as I see it, which historically has bared out. If I happen to be grossly incorrect in my portrayal then I would admit the error.

Maybe I am mischaracterizing your view, but it seems to me that anything which smacks of "conspiracy theory" or "fringe science" is not worth exploring or discussing, according to you. I have pointed to this several times in multiple threads, and you have not responded.

Of course it's worthy of discussion. Discernment should be encouraged so that we may learn something from what has been offered. But is that forthcoming, no. Basically people tend to be satisfied with news of something that reinforces their biases, such as the victim mindset sold in these films. The "PTB" or "elite" hold the keys to freedom but are withholding it, thereby enslaving the population. That is pure nonsense and only serves to finger-point at some object of suppresion outside of the self (i.e. the headless govt, the bankers, the dynasties, whatever). The local environment is perfectly suitable to provide accurate information for one to bother to use their discernment, will, and honesty. If they bother to determine what is viable for themselves.

For example, when I offered continued responses to your posts on Spiral Dynamics here and here in Caring/Compassion/Sensitivity/Tact vs Lying/Faking which relate to this discussion. These links are reference for others because I am not going to take the time to recapitulate the ideas again, and it would appear you have deemed them unworthy of a response.

No, I will catch up and respond. I intended to address it fully, as it seemed to be worthwhile discussion, but it fell through - I had to put it off and forgot. You had some interesting points that I will address individually.

I also referenced multiple times the irony of your claiming that everything Foster Gamble has to say is bunk, while he specifically promotes the views of Ken Wilbur and Spiral Dynamics... both of which you seem to be strongly in support of. You have failed to respond to this as well.

I dont' know the guy, or everything he had to say. I did watch that youtube clip and was dismayed by what was being portrayed compared to what the system is actually about.

Since free energy is where "conspiracy theory" and "fringe science" meet, I can see why you might refuse to engage in any sort of real discussion about the possibility... instead you are spreading the seeds of separation by portraying yourself as intellectually superior to anybody else who wants to discuss these things.

Intellectually superiority is some kind of projection you hold. It's a ridiculous concept and I would not be here if I had one iota of need for such a structure self-fulfillment. What you may be missing is that I am being honest when I offer my limited viewpoint, and I'm willing to back it up into minute detail if asked. What may come accross as "intellectual superiority" is the inevitable disagreements which will occur when actual discernment is applied to that which has been depcited as being the case, vs what is actually the case. If one attempts to contextualize or to offer some scope to what is being promoted to some status of fact, which is obviously full of unexamined, entrenched prejudice and emotional content. Popularity or status quo is not such a concern with me as it is with many on this forum. My idea of "love" or "acceptance" is not reduced to completely superficial agreement and useless indulgence. Such is the tacit standard that has been set. So be it. Most of the attacks back on me have been also superficially groundless and mainly based on defense of transient "ideas" which are perceived to have an overly important impact on the welfare of society. (and therefore quite a sacred cow due to the zealot's unconsciously associated transcendent principle underlying their secret bias) It's usually utter bullshit, of course, as ideas - the imagination - are not real. "Wanderers", who you'd think would know better, are enmeshed in the same drama - the same allegory of the cave - and due to lack of discernment are largely responsible for propogating distraction and sleep due to their fantasy-prone, ungrounded, natures.

I've also asked this question before... Are you a physicist or psychologist? Do you have any scientific training? Are you Ken Wilbur or Nassim Haramein? What is it that- in your mind- qualifies you to speak authoritatively on this topic?

I am qualified as much as anyone. Are you attempting to appeal to some authority structure where opinion is reserved to those worthy of offering it? What actual good does that do anyone. If a reader is not capable of making up their own mind in the first place, why should they buy into, or be led by, that offered from someone who happens to have an acedemic title? The same problem of discernment holds, regardless of the information source.

Again... maybe I am wrong... in which case please state your view on free energy? Is it possible? If so, what would you think is the most effective way of developing such a technology?

It's actually quite simple. The current paradigm of research - experimentation, theoretical development - basically figuring out viable mechanisms for observed physical processes, which result in a more accurate view of the universe - is applicable to this type of research. Skipping the step of establishing something viable and instead promoting some vague, intuitively resonating, symbolic idea of possible promise (ooo, ahhhh...) runs counter to people doing actual research and is what amounts to pure entertainment. Such vague, utterly detached, notions of impotence and distraction come and go like the wind (as we see historically). What supports this dynamic is the give-it-to-me-now, parasitic, mindset of entitlement which pays no mind to the dirty work, the persistence involved in and required by actual learning about real, actionable, processes and structures.

The value of any of these types of viral videos and movies is that it allows the viewer a glimpse into a slice of reality that they would not otherwise see. Why is this? Because the media won't show them. Their teachers won't show them. Their pastors won't show them. And so on.

In other words, more of the same, tired, blame/suppression game. What is being shown is a glimpse into someone's bias of what they want to see but have not bothered to create - to actually make real. Therefore, the so-called "slice of reality", when subject to inspection, is what amounts to entertainment and fluff. What do such stories actually provide in the way of support for removing one's distortions?

It offers them a view into what life might be like as viewed from a "higher meme" according to the system of Spiral Dynamics, which you so strongly favor.

What I am pointing out with Spiral Dynamics is that the researchers have observed groups of core values being used in society. And that those identified values are representative of what this particular society is working with through the discrete vibrations of Ra's "subdensities". While it's obvious that some of the teachers who have participated in the videos are operating from some of the higher vibrations, the manner used to convey such a bridge that you and others see as the "wake up" or outside of what is being fed by the status-quo media, is, for the most part, playing around with people's libido - at most, a rearranging of furniture in the house. When circumstances render some population segment's current worldview as inadequate or unsatisfactory, the story tellers jump in with the promotion of a victim-framing "slice of reality" which basically serves their agenda for some detached, untenable framework of what they want to see bought in to. Yes, this is where we disagree. I have seen Greers movement and it grossly overextends, exagerrates and falsely depicts circumstances in order to promote a particular agenda of "disclosure". I do not condone such a consequentialist philosophy where the ends justify the means.

This is the value, and your failure to acknowledge it is both shocking and disturbing.

You would seem to be easily shocked and disturbed by my lack of support for such amusement, hand-waving, and distraction provided by those offering fanatical, vague and tenuous notions.

You appear to be perturbed by all the amount of pseudo-science that gets passed around the Internet... well... maybe if real scientists took any of these things seriously and investigated them rather than mocking them, then laypeople wouldn't feel so compelled to take matter into their own hands.

I really don't care if pseudo science is passed around. I don't care if it's discussed. My objection is when the concepts are misattributed, over extended, used as "proof" for something beyond what they can possibily support, and the conspiracy which is evoked as the reason for its inevitable impotence and failure to live up to inflated claims designed for emotional appeal.

As far as impact or "polarization" goes, I think the answer is obvious. If somebody is in the "sinkhole of indifference" a video like this might be enough to jar them out of comfortable numbness. What do you care, anyway? Who are you trying to protect? If these things really have little to no impact, as you say, then who gives a rats-a$$ one way or another?

You do realize one can just as well turn this same rhetoric back on your head.

Claiming that videos like this don't have any impact, while arguing against several people in this thread who directly state that it actually did have an impact on them seems like flat-out denial to me.

As far as claiming they don't have impact... I acknowledge there will enevitably be elements of subjectively, thought-provoking ideas "catalyst". But as far as by design, no - it is mostly distraction and sleep - the exploitation of a desire to take an easy road to look outside oneself for change. You get back what you put in. The individual and society are the same and, ultimately, that's why we have what is provided for us today. The situation is not due to another's suppression, but due to lack of will and a strong desire to be led by another or to put off "going there" by such seemingly promising ideas placed on their sacred pedestals. Merely containing similar sounding, intuitively resonating, buzzwords does not constitute agreement with the Ra Material. But as it is with the limits of intuition and one's experience, the unconscious will fill in the blanks and ultimately promote the underlying bias of what one wants to see at the expense of other possibilities. Also, it's more projection to suggest that such ungrounded, childish shows are the very reason why I'm here, discussing the Ra Material, after all.

---

I just get the impression that we're not allowed to be critical of anything considered to be positive.

Or what someone may consider to be "inspirational". After all, that which is considered inspirational is now in the category of that which is spiritual - that which is seen to provide for one's very salvation. And that which has a possible connection to one spiritual nature is quite sacred and can never be subject to any form of admonishment without being seen as a crushing blow, a negative circumventing attitude against evolution on this planet. What a transparent joke.

---

I don't think that's what is meant at all. They are saying the conditions which cause the current choices to be made are part of the potential which the overall social complex has provided at this time - down to every last person. The "craft" or "free energy" is allegory for the type of development required for self - that is the "embodiment" of the transcendent function. Why it holds fascination and even numinosity for so many. In other words, the ability to choose is the choice. That is what opens the gates.

Really? You think Ra was speaking allegorically? I think they were being quite literal. The technology we possess is "capable of resolving each and every limitation which plagues [our] social memory complex" but it is being withheld because of "the concerns of some of your beings with distortions towards what you would call powerful energy."

It is, of course, true, that each needs to choose. But Ra said that wanderers incarnated, in part, in order to increase leisure time (through technological means) in order that people could contemplate the Law of One in conscious fashion.

Maybe you think that was a misguided goal? (Unity100 often argued so.) But to say that the "craft" are allegory for self-development seems unsupported in the Ra material.

I would disagree.

The craft, or similar, are used by fourth- and early fifth-density entities that have not mastered travel by thought. They could be quite helpful here now.

I would make a distinction between the attempt to provide leisure time for the purpose of exploring evolution and the use of intelligent energy as a direct consequence of one's developed nature.

"The technology of which you, as a social complex, are so enamored at this time is but the birthing of the manipulation of the intelligent energy of the sub-Logos which, when carried much further, may evolve into technology capable of using the gravitic effects of which we spoke."

I indeed see the craft/free energy as metaphor, as did Jung. It is the apprehension of the "next step" which goes beyond the self-limiting principles we enforce upon ourselves as a society. "Enamored" is an apt description of the principle it conveys from the depths of the unconscious. We even see this energy projected into thought forms for those "who request such experience". This is the stuff of allegory.