In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

It's not that there's no difference, it's that the differences don't have to do with individuation.

I disagree. Individuation seems to be the only logical reason why animals would have pain receptors and plants don't.

Can you offer an alternative explanation?

What about my strawberry question? For those who are arguing that plants are just as much entities as animals, then would anyone care to explain that?

Plants reproduce by division sometimes.

So at what point does that appendage of an entity become a separate entity?

We were trying to understand how individuation applies to plants and to animals.

What I meant was, for those of us in agreement that it's ok to eat plants (and that includes Ra, by the way), there is no point in discussing whether plants suffer when we eat them. We must eat them to survive here in 3D. It's a completely moot point.

It seems to me that this focus on plants is evading the real issue. (Not referring to you personally but to all the points brought up about plants.)

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By "once" do you mean in an instant? Then why are my dogs and cats still with me? They've been self-aware for many years.

After the incarnation in which they have reached that point.[/quote]

Then you and I have a very, very different understanding about the process of graduation to higher densities.

Unity100 and I had a conversation about this. His view was similar to yours, in that a single spark of the required aspect had to be reached, and then the entity immediately graduated.

Applied to 3D graduating to 4D, this would mean that as soon as any human reached the threshold of 51%, they could leave this density and graduate. He felt that compassion didn't exist in 3D, since it is a trait of 4D.

I strongly disagreed. Just by looking around I can plainly see that many, many humans exhibit strong qualities of love and compassion, here in 3D.

It seems to me that a human graduating with only 51% would be a 'D' student, ie. reaching the bare minimum. But most people are C or B students, and some are A students.

It seems to me that entities graduating to 4D with only 51% would be rather weak, and might even slip backwards, meaning that 4D would be rather unstable.

But aside from what seems to me to be a reasonable expectation that there would be more than just D students graduating, the main reason I believe that is simple observation.

It is the same with 2D graduating to 3D. Simple observation tells me that some of my pets are more self-aware than others. But all are self-aware to some extent. It's unreasonable to me to think that a 2D entity would graduate to 3D after only a single lifetime of developing a spark of self-awareness.

If that were true, then that is all the more reason to treat those cows and chickens with compassion. They are being cruelly treated and brutally slaughtered by the billions. Such trauma is surely triggering the spark of self-awareness, as any intense emotion can do. If those billions of cows and chickens are now ready to graduate to 3D, then I shudder to think of what kind of horrible, barbaric planet they will be inhabiting!

It makes much more sense to me that they would have more lifetimes after the traumatic one, in which to have an opportunity to develop that blossoming self-awareness in a loving environment, such as being a dog in a loving family.

What we know about the process of karma would suggest that an entity who developed self-awareness via trauma as a chicken, might attract to itself several lifetimes as a feral dog, abused and beaten, until some human finally shows compassion on him and rehabilitates him with love.

We have a single example of an entity having the possibility of returning to 2D incarnation after the point had been reached, and that is to be with the persons who it shared love with. This can't be extended to animals who have not already been enspirited by love being shared.

I disagree with your interpretation. As I mentioned before, if being drawn out by love were the only way to develop self-awareness, then what is the point of 2D life at all?

And by the way, Ra stated that all life is already enspirited. That's different from the process of developing self-awareness.

As a second-density entity returns as third-density for the beginning of this process of learning, the entity is equipped with the lowest, if you will so call these vibrational distortions, forms of third-density consciousness; that is, equipped with self-consciousness.

The lowest form of self-awareness is held by a new 3rd density entity. Were there lower forms of self-awareness to be held by 2D entities, Ra would not call this the lowest. Ra also very clearly equates "third-density consciousness" with "self-consciousness."

This is a relative term. It could be said that 51% green is the lowest form of love.

I read that as referring to the experience of a newly awakened 3D entity.

Ra also describes what is required for self-awareness in 19.10:

In order to be capable of such, this chemical complex of body must be capable of abstract thought. Thus, the fundamental necessity is the combination of rational and intuitive thinking. This was transitory in the second-density forms operating largely upon intuition which proved through practice to yield results.

Thank you for that quote! This seems to support my view that animals are able to develop self-awareness, but plants generally aren't (again, excepting trees).

It's well established that animals can think. Yes, even cows and chickens. Some months back, I posted some links to studies showing that cows and chickens are far more intelligent than previously thought. Even cows have been known to think independently!