In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

The point is that comparing a being who is tortured then killed, to a being who is treated well then killed, doesn't hold any water when applied to humans.

Why does it when applied to animals?

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

For the record, I'm not saying that killing animals = killing humans. So let me establish that clearly right now. (That has been exhaustively explained in the early months of this thread.)

I am referring on the logic, the thought process.

If a human is murdered, we don't accept it as 'ok' because, well, at least s/he wasn't tortured before s/he was killed.

Killing a human is either wrong or it isn't. If the victim was tortured before getting murdered, then the crime is even more heinous. But it was a crime already, with or without the torture.

Why, then, is the same logic applied to animals as though a justification?

Address in post #1442.

What in particular?

The whole post, but particularly this:

If grass is individuated, then how many entities are in a lawn? Does it writhe in pain when you mow your lawn? If so, isn't that a very cruel design? A wild deer has a good life until the wolf kills it. But what sort of Creator would design a planet in which the entire plant kingdom, which is being torn apart by higher beings on a daily basis, lives in constant pain?

Think about it. Is this even remotely reasonable? Every time we walk outside, we are crushing blades of grass. Every time an elephant walks on an African prairie, it is inflicting severe torment on the grass beneath its feet? Every time a chimp climbs a tree and accidentally breaks a limb, the tree is experiencing severe pain with no relief? Every time any animal, anywhere on the planet, eats a plant, the plant is experiencing terror and pain? Every time a chimp tears off a lettuce leaf, it is torturous as when a dear is mauled by a lion?

What kind of hell is that?

Further: Can anyone explain to me how many entities are in a strawberry plant? If I tear off a cutting and plant it, that 'entity' has just been torn in 2. Is it now 2 entities? What if I tear that single plant into 5 separate cuttings, to help it spread in my garden? Did I just torture it? How many entities are there now? It was a strawberry plant. I separated it into 5 cuttings which can each now turn into a separate plant. By what mechanism is what used to be just a body part of Entity A (the original plant) now a new, individuated entity (the cutting)? That would be like saying that when a human loses a leg, the leg is now a new human!

If this is how strawberry plants reproduce, then at what point does each little cutting become a self-aware entity? And, what kind of cruel design is that, in which normal reproduction inflicts extreme pain?

This doesn't fit the pattern of other lifeforms. Other entities (animals and humans) generally enjoy the mating process. Why is reproduction so painful for plants?

I don't think it's painful. Why? Because they have no pain receptors.

Why is it experiencing pain when I am obviously trying to help it spread? Why is spreading and growing, which are normal activities for a plant, subjecting the plant to extreme pain? is it reasonable or logical to assume that such a normal activity is subjecting extreme pain?

Are you suggesting that the normal, everyday events in a plant's life are akin to the torture endured by a cow on a factory farm?

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A humanely-treated person flourishes throughout its life. It doesn't suffer any more than does a cow until the moment it is murdered.

We've been around and around about this. Animals are not human any more than plants are.

Why should compassion be extended to only humans?

A question for the meat-eaters:

What if you found a dog on the side of the road, who had just been hit by a car, and was injured, bleeding and in pain? Would you feel compassion for the dog? Would you try to help relieve the pain and take the dog to the vet? Or would you leave it by the side of the road to die a slow, agonizing death?