In regards to eating meat

[Tenet Nosce]

That question has been raised many times in this thread. Of course, on some level, yes it did, just as the human victim of violence also chose to be a victim. However I don't see anyone justifying participating in violence to humans just because the victim's Higher Self chose that experience.

Yes, but violence is a term that primarily refers to behavior among humans. Yes- it can be applied to animals but this is obviously a gray area.

Also, as has been repeated multiple times, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Killing does not necessarily equate to violence. But obviously, the two are connected.

I can't even remember the last time I ate a cow, much less purchased some disgusting pre-ground burger concoction which could contain parts of as many as 100 cows, not to mention whatever feces is allowed to pass as "meat". But for those that are continuing to eat cows, that doesn't make them more violent than me. It just makes them more ignorant than me.

Maybe because it's not bad. Not bad to kill microbes.

Whyever not? I mean, if it weren't for microbes none of us would even exist. We depend on microbes to help us digest our food and to regulate our immune system. Mother earth relies on microbes to help offset the effects of oil spills and other human bunglings. If not for microbes in the soil, plants would neither be able to exist, nor provide oxygen for humans to breathe. If not for microbes in the sky, there would be little rain and the climate more severe.

This is way more than can be said for cows.

How about if I started accusing physicians of unprovoked assault on symbiotic gut bacteria every time they write a prescription for antibiotics? Or perhaps I should sue Clorox on behalf of the microbe world for the rampant germicide they perpetuate with their products? Or even shun the word "germ" as not being politically correct? Why not shut Pfizer down for distributing weapons of mass microbe destruction?

But we can avoid killing animals.

We can avoid killing microbes, too. Not only that, but we should. It is the senseless killing of microbes that has created some of the more virulent strains which are growing beyond our ability to control.

I never said anything about the soul/Higher Self. I was referring only to us, here in 3D, and what we can choose to do or not do.

OK. I must have been confusing your views with somebody else's.

In contrast, we have the power to choose to avoid contributing to the cruelty to animals. We can do that. So why not do it?

We don't have the power to do this because we can't discern a consistent principle from which to draw a model for behavior.

For example, imagine that we had some sort of "animal tribunal" or "animal court" through which one human could bring charges against another on behalf of an animal. Let's say that exists.

So next we need to appoint a judge. And then we are going to instruct the judge to rule on charges of "animal murder" based upon... what, exactly?

You have mentioned potential to individuate. And I agree this seems to be part of it. But there has to be something more than just... it is an animal therefore humans shouldn't kill them. This would obviously lead to some very absurd results, as you know.

We can't do everything. Why not do what we can?

Exactomundo! I see "doing what we can" as taking a good, hard look at priorities.

What if... there were less than 12 months... or even 12 years or 120 years... left before 3D earth winks out of active existence. Will it have mattered that PETA got their way? How long do you think the victory party is going to go on in 4D+ where nobody eats meat anyways?

And even if some did intend the prayers to be for the animal, how does that work again?

Same way any prayer works. According to my understanding, there are whole hosts of beings who are in contact with intelligent infinity whose role it is to administer to animal souls throughout the grand scheme of Creation. When I pray for the animal, I throw the weight of my intention along with these beings and trust that it will be appropriated in the most effective way.

Hunt down an animal, ignore its cries of pain and the terror in its eyes, and then just say a prayer for it afterwards?

I am not a hunter. But I believe the correct sequence would be to first say a prayer for the animal, and ask the Universe for a volunteer who is willing to sacrifice their flesh for the nourishment of human life. Then one waits. Often for a very long time. Sometimes not.

When the killing wasn't necessary?

But it is necessary. Something must die in order for something else to live. While in 3D.

A beautiful creature shot down for...what?

For many, a ridiculous head to put on one's wall. I have the same reaction as you toward this whoo-whee big buck huntin thang. But I don't feel the same way toward the organically raised lamb in my freezer, or the Moroccan sardines in my pantry. I just don't.

That would depend on the severity of its injuries. Sometimes it is indeed a compassionate act to end the animal's life because it is in extreme pain and there is no hope for healing.

To what ends of expense? If Gandalf needs $5000 surgery to maybe live another year, and I don't want to pay for it, do you have the right to force me to pay for it? Should I drop Gandalf off at a shelter or something? Will PETA pay for Gandalf's surgery? Or will that cut too deeply into their lobbying budget?

But oftentimes, people put a bullet to its head or have it euthanized because it's easier.

Sometimes it is. We had a family dog die back in '07. The last couple of days were really sad and the poor thing couldn't even move himself around to avoid defecating on himself.

Now, I don't even own a gun. But what I -did- do was go to him and cradle his head in my hands and pray for his quick and painless release from this body. He died a few hours later. Maybe most people don't realize they can do this? But besides that point, I was directly intending for him to die. Is it really so different, if I had expressed that intention with a bullet or an injection?

At any rate, killing an animal out of mercy has no relevance to animals slaughtered for meat, because they are only miserable because humans made them miserable. Raising animals in the cruel conditions of factory farms, inflicting misery on them day after day after day, and then finally killing it...that's not an act of compassion.

Like I keep saying, I think the factory farm thing is nasty in many respects, and I don't buy that crap.

Humans have the capacity to reason. Animals don't. I surmise that animals who were catapulted into self-awareness by trauma may indeed reincarnate into a very dark, STS environment, for the simple reason that their state of extreme pain and terror might attract them to such a place.

If it weren't for their interactions with humans, no animal would ever had any chance to escape the pain and terror of living as an animal in the 3D world, whatsoever. It is part of the program. That any animal could be "spared" such a fate is by the intervention of human beings, not the other way around.

Humans, on the other hand, might avoid such a fate because their capacity for free will is better developed.

There's an ass for every saddle, and I mean that for both humans and donkeys. Again, I did not set Creation up this way. I don't really know why 3D beings kill and eat each other. It appears to be necessary in a number of ways, but I don't fully understand it. There are many things about the physical world that I find bizarre but I don't judge the Creator for making it this way.

You are right in that humans can choose to "opt out" of meat-eating, however there is no denying that the human body was designed for consumption of animal protein. Perhaps we can modulate this with spirulina and other things as Dr. Gabriel describes, but this is actually not the "natural" state of things. This is a new possibility that was not available before.

Depends on how the human chooses to respond to catalyst. An newly awakened 3D entity may likely respond in a very primal way...with more violence fueled by fear.

I had always assumed that such animal souls are ministered and attended to similarly to those humans who may have departed in fear-based ways. It is all under intelligent guidance and direction.