03-25-2012, 05:16 PM
Tenet Nosche,
First of all I very much respect your candor and focus. It is becoming increasingly easier to understand your depth.
Now, I am not here to convert anyone to a certain way of thinking because we all come to higher undertstanding via very different paths. But when we attempt to relate our experiences to each other we speak in terms with which we are familiar and relate to experiences that we have had.
It is obvious that your experiences might be very different from mine simply because we each apply our own perceptions to them. So it can happen that when one person speaks of love toward others, another person may not recognize that defintion of it.
To me, loving others does not mean that one must act contrary to how they might feel. It means that when we are in a negative mood for some reason that we do not act out negatively toward someone. We control our base urges and find a way to avoid abusing the other in any way. Even if that means ignoring them to seek solitude. Even if that means that they might not get a smile in return as we keep our angry gaze to the ground instead.
Loving others does not have to be to the extent of sacrificing some part of our lives for the benefit of others. It could just be making sure that the things we do is not a deliberate means of causing someone esle harm or suffering.
Yes, there are many so called saints out there who spend their entire lives giving to others. Does that mean that we have to define loving others by their extreme? Does the fact that Mother Theresa lived in poverty all of her life caring for the sick and homless mean that my being a foster parent is not loving by comparison?
Yes, there are many instances where loving others can both be taken advantage of, and seemingly wasted on the undeserving. But, we do not measure the love by its results. We measure love by its intentions.
I think that you and I have much the same character traits. Anyone who knows me casually would say that I am a tough guy with no sense of gentleness whatsoever. But those who know me intimately know that my heart is filled with love and I am really just a big old teddy bear. Like you, I really do not express a loving persona, but I live by a code. And that code has always been to do what I think was the right thing to do at the time, and hopefully not have to hurt anyone esle in the process. And that judgement I carry on my shoulders alone. it is not part of a doctrine or a religious dogma. And it is always very much based on the 'in the moment' circumstances.
You have been hurt Tenet, and I can feel your pain. But you know that inside you feel love. regardless of what anyone else thinks or defines, you know what you feel. And if that is your guide, than you are a being that loves others.
The opposite to what you are is a being that has no love or concern for others and thinks only of themselves at all times. Those people will stab a friend in the back without remorse. They will place their families in front of them as shields just to protect themselves. They would betray the trust of those who love them because it means nothing to them.
These are the defintions of love for others and love for self.
And by no means is love for self ever to be considered evolving or growing into higher being because it does not acknowledge the loss of self to the One Consciousness. Self gratification is not aware of how it is One with the All. It is aware only of self.
Does this mean that we do not all engage in a little self graitifcation at times, or that those who usually only think of themselves sometimes have events of compassion toward someone esle? Absolutley not! We are all human. And this is where our awareness and choices define who and what we will become, as opposed to what we might be at the time.
There is always direction!
For those of you who I keep hearing making refernces to the 'veil', I would like to offer my understanding of what the veil is.
In Ancient teachings the veil is like the veil that a woman uses to conceal her beauty. This she uses to convey a mystery that is only revealed at the right time when the person who seeks her truly finds her.
In such defintion it has always been applied to the Goddess. It was both the veil that kept the secret of the Mystery hidden, and it also became the portal by which true seekers would pass upon discovering the truth of the Goddess. That truth being that the Goddess resided within them waiting to be awakened.
This use of it as having something to do with density and distortion I am unfamiliar with.
First of all I very much respect your candor and focus. It is becoming increasingly easier to understand your depth.
Now, I am not here to convert anyone to a certain way of thinking because we all come to higher undertstanding via very different paths. But when we attempt to relate our experiences to each other we speak in terms with which we are familiar and relate to experiences that we have had.
It is obvious that your experiences might be very different from mine simply because we each apply our own perceptions to them. So it can happen that when one person speaks of love toward others, another person may not recognize that defintion of it.
To me, loving others does not mean that one must act contrary to how they might feel. It means that when we are in a negative mood for some reason that we do not act out negatively toward someone. We control our base urges and find a way to avoid abusing the other in any way. Even if that means ignoring them to seek solitude. Even if that means that they might not get a smile in return as we keep our angry gaze to the ground instead.
Loving others does not have to be to the extent of sacrificing some part of our lives for the benefit of others. It could just be making sure that the things we do is not a deliberate means of causing someone esle harm or suffering.
Yes, there are many so called saints out there who spend their entire lives giving to others. Does that mean that we have to define loving others by their extreme? Does the fact that Mother Theresa lived in poverty all of her life caring for the sick and homless mean that my being a foster parent is not loving by comparison?
Yes, there are many instances where loving others can both be taken advantage of, and seemingly wasted on the undeserving. But, we do not measure the love by its results. We measure love by its intentions.
I think that you and I have much the same character traits. Anyone who knows me casually would say that I am a tough guy with no sense of gentleness whatsoever. But those who know me intimately know that my heart is filled with love and I am really just a big old teddy bear. Like you, I really do not express a loving persona, but I live by a code. And that code has always been to do what I think was the right thing to do at the time, and hopefully not have to hurt anyone esle in the process. And that judgement I carry on my shoulders alone. it is not part of a doctrine or a religious dogma. And it is always very much based on the 'in the moment' circumstances.
You have been hurt Tenet, and I can feel your pain. But you know that inside you feel love. regardless of what anyone else thinks or defines, you know what you feel. And if that is your guide, than you are a being that loves others.
The opposite to what you are is a being that has no love or concern for others and thinks only of themselves at all times. Those people will stab a friend in the back without remorse. They will place their families in front of them as shields just to protect themselves. They would betray the trust of those who love them because it means nothing to them.
These are the defintions of love for others and love for self.
And by no means is love for self ever to be considered evolving or growing into higher being because it does not acknowledge the loss of self to the One Consciousness. Self gratification is not aware of how it is One with the All. It is aware only of self.
Does this mean that we do not all engage in a little self graitifcation at times, or that those who usually only think of themselves sometimes have events of compassion toward someone esle? Absolutley not! We are all human. And this is where our awareness and choices define who and what we will become, as opposed to what we might be at the time.
There is always direction!
For those of you who I keep hearing making refernces to the 'veil', I would like to offer my understanding of what the veil is.
In Ancient teachings the veil is like the veil that a woman uses to conceal her beauty. This she uses to convey a mystery that is only revealed at the right time when the person who seeks her truly finds her.
In such defintion it has always been applied to the Goddess. It was both the veil that kept the secret of the Mystery hidden, and it also became the portal by which true seekers would pass upon discovering the truth of the Goddess. That truth being that the Goddess resided within them waiting to be awakened.
This use of it as having something to do with density and distortion I am unfamiliar with.
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