In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

I am finding reading this particular thread catalyzing, ie. invoking frustration and anger in me because I understand that unless you are completely off the grid and not participating in modern day society, you are supporting an oppressive societal system in some way. So as awakened beings, we are all basically cognitively dissonant on some level because we are living here in 3D.

But at any rate, it's not going to convince anyone to "change their ways" of conditioned and cultural food choices by implying that they are "less" than yourself in any way (weak-willed, jealous,cognitively dissonant)

I hope my last few statements cleared up the 'weak-willed' thing. No one is implying anyone else is anything. We're discussing this academically. If someone feels defensive while a reading philosophical discussion that isn't directed at them personally, then that's a great illustration of the very thing we're talking about!

Every day I fill my pets food bowl, I do so with love and care for them....I'm am not thinking of the factory-farm industry that I am supporting by purchasing pet food.

Well that's just it...people aren't thinking about it. That's the whole point. Why aren't they thinking about it? Isn't that the whole point of waking up? to be aware of what we're doing here?

Same thing when I put gas in my car or or buy clothing from Target. We live in vast oppressive matrix/system that basically causes harm to those who are "weak" by the stronger. I could choose any number of causes if I was called to activism to advocate for the oppressed.

That's right. So much to do...so little time. (sigh)

I am just saying that I find reading this thread not helpful at all in convincing me that I should not eat meat.

1. Have you read the whole thread?

2. Why are your reading this thread?

The cognitive dissonance not only goes both ways, but is very deeply embedded in the matrix.

Not sure what you mean here.

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I've not had a single vegan friend who didn't make some snide remark at least once as I was eating meat.

Austin, I find that hard to believe. Being that I never make snide remarks unless provoked by the meat-eater's snide remarks, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Diana said the same thing. We just don't go around making snide remarks. We just don't. Surely there are other vegans out there who don't make snide remarks. I'm incredulous that you haven't encountered any.

But the heart of the matter: "So the question is: WHY do they perceive vegetarians as having a 'self-proclaimed superior point of view'?"

The reasons for being vegetarian are far-reaching, but I've never been in a discussion with a vegetarian who was doing it just for health reasons. It's normally along the lines of "I think eating meat is wrong." It's a logical train of thought, in my mind, to go from "I think eating meat is wrong." "You eat meat." "Something you do is wrong, and I am right." While vegetarians may not express moral superiority, it's hard not to imagine that they don't feel morally superior because they find something you do to be immoral.

Well, we're dancing around the elephant in the room.

Do I dare say it? No, I can't. I'll catch all sorts of flack if I say it.

But there's an elephant in the room.

I'd like to point out my very careful wording when I said that:
"vegetarianism can easily be viewed by a non-vegetarian as a self-proclaimed superior point of view"

Yes, I caught that, which is why I said I agreed with the gist of what you said in that post.

It's not that simple. It doesn't matter how available the information is, we're still blinded by our own perception. Someone could be surrounded with information on a subject they're not ready to accept (for instance, UFO's) and not readily perceive the reality of the situation. Some people are aware and don't care, or don't have the motivation, or are stuck in dissonance, but that doesn't mean that there aren't ignorant people. There are tons of ignorant and uninformed people still.

True.

In this situation, they're the same thing. If I were to work actively to take away your right to eat and feed your family vegetables because millions of beings die from veggie production, picketed a vegetarian get-together accusing them of murder and hypocrisy, and formed organizations with significant financial funding to harass vegetable producers and consumers about the murder that happens in veggie fields, do you feel this is justified out of "championing the oppressed?" All I would be doing, taking this point of view, is trying to protect the plants, bugs, and other animals that are killed through veggie production. I understand that at the root of what you do is the desire to protect, but your discussion and actions are no different in the eyes of meat-eaters than the actions I described above. And if you feel that your actions would be more justified than someone doing these things to vegetarians, juxtapose that against why someone may view vegetarians as feeling morally superior.

The outcome might be the same, but the motivation is different.

You are focused on the outcome. I am referring to the motivation.

We aren't motivated by trying to control others. We are motivated by the desire to champion the oppressed.

That is the point.

In addition, we don't even want to control anyone. The goal is to awaken people to the horrors of the slaughterhouse, so that they willingly want to reduce suffering, just as many people willingly have quit oppressing humans. We shouldn't need laws to accomplish that. No one is suggesting that we go about this via legislation. No one is suggesting that anyone be 'controlled' legally. We're just trying to inform and educate.

Edit: Are we all being 'controlled' because slavery is no longer legal?