In regards to eating meat

[Tenet Nosce]

What kind of statement would I need to make now for you to conclusively win the debate?

You've already said all of the things I was curious to know about:

I was experimenting with all kinds of diets and I felt better on this diet than I ever had before. It was like a drug. I felt airy and euphoric and extremely energetic. It was an altered state of consciousness. Maybe I was dying and that is what dying feels like.

Emotionally I think it's wrong for me to promote views on a field where I don't have an education. My 2009 self was confident he was making accurate statements. I still basically agree with my 2009 self, based on a whole bunch of books I've read, but I have no motivation now to try and convince anyone or spread my beliefs.

I have changed my moral position slightly. I've decided that ensuring the health of the human body is more important than preserving the lives of animals. I still think it's wrong to kill animals but I also think the value of a thriving human life outweighs the life of an animal. Until conventional science recommends veganism and social norms make it practical, therefore, I'm gonna be conventional.

In comparison, I used to think that preserving the lives of animals trumped any minor health concerns and practical concerns. I also thought that the risk to the body was worth it to preserve the lives of animals. So my values have shifted and my morals along with them.

Your words speak for themselves.

There is nothing to "debate" and nothing to "win". I wanted to know what was going on in your mind when you wrote those posts, and if and how your mind has changed since then.

That's all I wanted to know. Thanks for sharing. You were never under "attack" and weren't in need of "defense". Most of the ranting and railing has grown out of others answering on your behalf.

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So, you are just responsible and not elite or superior, but I, as a vegetarian trying to discuss here, am elitist, fanatical, and prejudice, and not just being responsible? You are name-calling.

I like to be proactive. Can we get past the name-calling and discuss the subject?

Getting past the name-calling involves a willingness to stop using a perceived "attack" as a barrier to communication. I never called you- Diana- elitist, fanatical, or prejudiced. I said these are energies which we all participate in, to some degree. The only difference among individuals are those who affirm it, those who deny it, and those who ask why it happens in the first place.

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you mean people take sides, like a football team?

Yes, but much more than that. Not only the taking of sides, but the assumption that the taking of sides is the "right" and "natural" thing to do in any circumstance. Beyond this, sports are a great example of how elitism, prejudice, and fanaticism get a "free pass" in our society. Because it is supposedly "entertainment" people not only allow, but encourage these manifestations amongst each other. Again, with the assumption that this is "natural" behavior that just needs some kind of outlet rather than seeing it as one of the very incubators by which these are born and propagated throughout society.

And before somebody comes along and says it... no I am not calling all people who play or watch sports elitist, prejudiced, or fanatical. I am referring to a social program which has been created around sports.

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??? When you do it, it's 'observation' but when a vegetarian does it, it's 'judgement'?

No- of course not- and your asking of this sort of question is what leads me to question if you selectively read my posts.

Why is it ok for you to speak up regarding your body of knowledge, but not ok for the vegetarians to do the same?

Go back and read the posts, if you really care to know my opinion. HINT: It has something to do with the energies of elitism, prejudice, and fanaticism.

But if you wanted to challenge yossarian's statement about protein, why did you ignore my detailed post about protein?

Because I was speaking to yossarian, not you. I don't mean this in the sense that you don't have a right to speak, or that the information you provide isn't useful. I mean it in the sense of I had a charge on yossarian, and you inserted yourself into the middle of it. If I haven't done a good enough job making this intelligible by now, then I'm afraid it is quite beyond my skill to communicate in words.