In regards to eating meat

[Pablísimo]

Greetings, Brothers & Sisters of Bring4th. Whatever you had for lunch today, I hope you are well and whole on this fine Spring Wednesday! Namaste, all.

I have some comments to add, but I'd like to start off with a personal clarification. I am a vegetarian and have been so for a long time. Thus, I have made my choice in regards to diet and of course have what I consider to be good reasons for that choice.

But let me make this absolutely crystal clear: IN NO WAY DOES ME BEING VEGETARIAN MAKE ME SUPERIOR TO MEAT EATERS AT ALL!!!! The choice to eat meat or not is a complex personal decision involving economic, practical, and spiritual considerations. My subjective, non-scientific, biased, strictly personal OPINION is that the vegetarian choice is best for me. What's best for all of you, is your own decision. Each should follow their own heart, free will, and particular understanding in this sphere, and I am in no position to judge anyone else for what they eat.

If you feel guilt or anger at other people's opinions of diet, then it may be that these emotions are coming from within rather than being imposed upon you from without. No'one is judging other PEOPLE here, we are discussing our opinions on the dietary choice. It's NOT personal, though for some reason it seems to be taken that way.

What's not so clear to me is how one should best discuss what one believes to be a superior CHOICE without coming across as feeling superior to people with a different opinion. For a non-charged example, I have recently gotten into beekeeping. I personally believe that using a "top bar" hive is a superior choice to a "conventional" Langstroth/National hive design. The fact that I choose top bar beekeeping doesn't make me superior to other beekeepers, or that they don't care about their bees. I just feel it's best for me and I have my reasons. So how would I go about explaining my reasons for the opinon that Top Bar hives are a better method in a discussion forum on hives, without sounding like I think I'm a better beekeeper because of my choice? Maybe the meat eaters could help the vegetarians with more effective ways at communication on this point. How to discuss something that one subjectively believes is a superior CHOICE while still making it very clear that that choice does not make the PERSON superior.

I believe that the totality of your Being is not decided by your diet; it is instead the sum total of all your qualities, choices, thoughts, and deeds that define your very Being in this life. I know many of you eat meat and yet are absolutely wonderful, warm, spiritual, loving, evolved, and kind individuals.

What I don't understand is why vegetarians describing their reasoning in a vegetarian thread is taken as a personal attack so frequently. I've witnessed an almost Herculean effort by them to speak about the general concepts instead of specific people. To discuss GENERAL ideas on this dietary question rather than attack meat eaters. These 'vegan fanatics' may attack in the wider world somewhere, but I just haven't seen much of it here on this thread.

In my daily life, I almost never bring up vegetarianism or meat eating. I concern myself with my own lunch and my own choices, and let others concern themselves with their own. I don't insist on particular restaurants or special treatment, and I don't try to start debates with meat eaters. I carry a couple of snack bars with me in case I find myself in a situation where there is no available vegetarian food, but that rarely happens. Most of the time, my dietary choice is a non-issue. I've had coworkers I worked with for years who were startled to find out I was a veggie -- BECAUSE I don't make a big deal out of it.

If someone ASKS me about my reasons in an off-handed way, I generally tell them that my personal, subjective opinion is that it is the best choice for me, but I don't judge others who don't agree. I leave it at that, and most of the time, that's enough. I try my best to just to not engage with those meat eaters who are itching for a debate and making snide comments, nor do I start them myself.

However, in those rare situations where someone genuinely wants to discuss the issue in depth with an open mind, I do feel like it is appropriate to share my understanding, and in great detail, if that is what is requested. I feel the same way about many other topics. If your input is requested, then give it. Otherwise, keep your opinions to yourself!

Because I follow this philosophy, I am perplexed by the recent comments on this thread. I thought the purpose of this thread was to actually dig into the pros and cons, the reasons and wherefores of meat eating vs vegetarianism. Of course, this is a subjective topic like so many others, but we all know that going in. We're all biased and yet this thread seems to be one of those rare times when it IS appropriate to share our biased, subjective opinions with eachother. If you randomly start criticizing my dietary choice in a restaurant, that's not acceptable. But if I'm in a room with a sign on the door clearly marked "Dietary discussion forum", then it is perfectly reasonable for you to give your opinion, and for me to share mine.

Here again, the discussion is over the choice, not the person making that choice and I don't think any vegetarian on this thread (certainly not me, at least) believes that they are morally superior simply because they don't eat meat. I have been brought to tears by the beauty, wisdom, and profundity in posts by Tenet, by Austin, by Ankh, by Shemaya, and others. Seriously, you guys are, at MINIMUM, our spiritual equals, if not our betters.

Yet the purpose of this thread is to discuss the veg/meat topic, is that not the case? These arguments are happening in a DISCUSSION FORUM in a thread SPECIFICALLY created to discuss the topic of meat eating from a spiritual perspective. They aren't all over the forum or in a thread that doesn't match the stated topic. Anyone who does not wish to discuss the issue can simply ignore this thread and participate in the myriad of other spiritual topics we discuss on a daily basis.

Please, help me understand... why does it matter if some people believe vegetarianism is better and some people believe meat eating is better? Isn't it a given that we all have different opinions? Why does it have to be personal? I thought we were discussing GENERAL concepts and OPINIONS on diet in the spiritual space.

I feel like this conversation has helped me to truly understand that I'm not superior because of my dietary choice. My compassion and understanding have grown immensely as a result of these difficult conversations. I am grateful to everyone on both sides for their input. It's actually helped me better understand my own reasoning and be far, far, far less judgemental towards others with a different perspective. The only thing I am doing now is listening to my heart and inner guidance. If your own tells you something different, then fine, then take a different path. But this thread is specifically to discuss the veg vs meat CHOICE. If discussing it offends you or brings out emotional catalyst that you don't like, then it may not be wise to continue reading it. However, if you wish to discuss, debate, and dissect this issue, then this is the perfect thread to do it in. And who knows, it may be that we can find some common ground, such as supporting sustainable and humane, non-factory farming operations as Austin has so eloquently advocated.

I do feel that any of us having extremely strong emotional reactions to other's posts, no matter which side of the issue we fall on, do need to take some personal responsibility. Our emotional reactions are not the fault of the "other". If one is secure in their own convictions and at peace with their own choices, then other people's opinions won't bother you, even if you disagree with them.

Finally, let's please remember that we are all Brothers and Sisters, aspects of the Creator, just discussing various aspects of the Creation we find ourselves in. Who cares if we disagree? The fine folks participating in this thread devoted to the topic are just sharing their opinions, and each and every one of you are wonderful, beautiful, loving, kind, and EQUAL other-selves.

Thank you all for this beautiful tapestry of perspectives and people. It is a privilege and a joy to participate here.

Love to all