In regards to eating meat

[Pablísimo]

I'm sorry to sound cynical, but I have concluded that most people just really and truly don't care. They might be really good people, and care about many other things, but their caring and compassion just don't extend to farm animals. Dogs and cats maybe, but not farm animals.

Do you really think that they don't care at all? That it's that simple, that they simply can't extend compassion towards farm animals? You could well be right, but that feels pretty bleak to me. I suspect the resistance from them is a complex blend of causes.

I've found that many meat eaters really just don't understand the actual living conditions that factory-farmed animals are raised under. We are insulated and isolated from that reality by shopping for little circles and squares of meat at the grocery store and restaurants. It's not like the fast food industry goes out of their way to show us how they can manage to produce all those burgers that get sold for $1 a piece. When the conversation is not accusatory or judgemental of themselves as people, I've found meat eaters to be usually very receptive to the idea of improving their conditions and reducing the suffering. They may believe it's OK for humans to eat meat and perfectly acceptable, but I doubt very many believe the way that most meat animals are raised and slaughtered is acceptable from either a moral or a health standpoint. IF and once they become aware of the reality, that is.

I can only speculate that it's because they're hardwired to believe that farm animals are for food, and dogs and cats are for pets. That's what they've been taught, and it's so deeply ingrained that it takes great effort to modify that program.

This is a good point. This is one of those other complex reasons that I referred to. We are all subject to very strong cultural programming and bias. It's very difficult to question ANY commonly accepted societal norm, and the second anyone steps outside of the 'normal social paradigm', about any topic, they encounter fierce resistance from those still within that paradigm. I know I have had to do an enormous amount of work on myself over the years to de-program the crap I've picked up from movies, society, religion, politicians, etc. So it's not so difficult to me to extend some compassion in this space. However, I think really people are only going to change of their own accord and free will. We can plant seeds, gently try to raise awareness, be an example, but ultimately no amount of convincing or cajoling is going to change others behavior if they don't agree. So I'm trying to create a loving and non-judgemental atmosphere to discuss what is basically a painful topic for everyone, and respect other people's processes and free will to make up their own mind.

PETA is very unpopular, but, like it or not, their approach does work. Any advertising pro can attest to the effectiveness of shocking people to get their attention. It's the 'getting attention' that has to happen, before they are receptive to raising their awareness. Getting cancer is an effective attention-getter. More vegetarians changed their diet because of health challenges, than because of someone telling them about animal suffering.

Does their approach really work? I think that in some ways, those shocking images do help raise awareness. There are times when even I have felt it appropriate to share those images. And yet I feel that PETA has given a bad name to a cause I believe in. They are using guilt, controversy, and shame on many occasions to get their point across. I think this judgemental, full on frontal attack approach that they take is detrimental to raising awareness. When you make others feel guilty, angry, and defensive with your approach, then they aren't going to really HEAR your message. Most likely they'll shut down, block it out, or counter-attack. I suspect that it is precisely because of some of their ad campaigns that I run into people who explode about vegetarians and fanatical vegans all the time now.

Yes, I believe people should explore any feelings of guilt they have and convert it into positive action. But continually trying to make others feel guilty and shove their ads down people's throats doesn't seem to have the impact that we really want -- which is awareness and more humane treatment of our younger Brothers & Sisters.

Throwing fake blood on people, destroying property and using almost terroristic tactics just isn't cool in my book, even if I do agree with them about meat eating in general. For me, PETA's means don't justify their ends.

Don't get me wrong, PETA does some good, and I've seen some encouraging signs that they are getting better. If Slaughterhouses had Glass Walls with PM was very well done...and I've seen those ads you posted here before on the subways showing pictures of cute baby animals. This is a changed approach, shifting from guilt to awareness and reason.

But their bad stuff is REALLY significant, and I can't honestly say that they represent me as a vegetarian. I happen to be a vegetarian who is appalled at the suffering and yet does not wish to judge others or make them feel bad about what they do.

I guess overall, I'd just have to say that PETA is a mixed polarity, mixed blessing. They do some real good, but I also feel like they do some real harm to a cause I hold dear.

Then there is the "Jesus ate fish so God must want us to eat meat" thing. A triple whammy!

I wasn't immune to this programming. What got me to go veg was The Essene Gospel of Peace, attributed to Jesus. At that time, I was still quite Christian. I had already read Survival into the 21st Century 6 months prior, so he idea had been planted in my mind, but that book wasn't sufficient to get me to change. And, I had already quit eating junk food and red meat, a year before that! And I'd had a few conversations with vegetarians who spoke of animal suffering. (Though this was before youtube slaughterhouse videos.)

I even had memories of my dad making me help him butcher chickens as a child. I was a vegetarian until age 11 or so, not sure why. I just would not eat any meat. (But, to be fair, I didn't eat veggies either.)

But none of that was enough to get me to go veg as an adult. It took Jesus telling me to not eat animals, that got me to quit eating animals. So strong was the Bible programming.

You make another incredibly good point here about the religious angle. There are many who are taught that animals are created so we could have dominion over them and use them for our ends. That programming is very deeply ingrained. It has to do with the old idea that man is dominant over nature, instead of the new paradigm that mankind can be a steward of nature.

I would combine this though with other "resistance factors" such as memories of Grandma's home cookin', some degree of social ostracizing, the idea they would have to give up things that they really enjoy the taste of, all the practical concerns, the social conditioning, and then the plain old guilt that some of them feel and don't want to face.

All this forms a complex tapestry of resistance, and I can really understand why. So for me, I want to use a gentle approach. I also have to be careful not to see people as just one thing and separate myself. It's not a fair spiritual litmus test, it is just one issue among many. People are complex, and I've known many meat eaters who are absolutely wonderful people. The animal suffering situation on this planet is appalling, but there are many other dynamics going on and we are all working on our evolution and processing complex catalyst that are not related to diet. Life is so hard here, in this crazy 3D world, I have to cut everybody some slack. We're all evolving in our own ways, and I am well aware that I don't have perfect understanding. Thus, non-judgement of the PEOPLE eating meat and a gentler approach works best for me.

Because these conversations get so charged and polarizing, I think it behooves those of us who are advocating change to go the extra mile and strive to be compassionate, considerate, and respectful to those who don't agree with us on this issue.

There is value in some of the work PETA does, but I shudder to think at how many people they have totally turned off about animal rights who might otherwise have given it a fair hearing, had it been done more gently and more respectfully.

Love to all