In regards to eating meat

[Pablísimo]

@pablisimo

I have voiced an opinion in this thread that isn't agreed by anyone. I'll bring it up now as a topic motivator.

You've already labeled me as a belief system, but I am more than that. (no hurts)

What I have to say falls into that label, but please don't lump me in a label.

Well, that was never, ever my intention. Words are clumsy, and I don't always use them as well as I could. I made an honest effort to clarify that I do NOT see you as just a belief about diet, but as a complex multi-dimensional Other-Self. I never meant otherwise, and I apologize to you for doing so. It was not my intent to label you and I will do my best to avoid it in the future. Please continue to correct me if you find me doing this in the future -- I'm a fallible human after all and may not always be clear.

What I have to say falls into that label, but please don't lump me in a label. I truly believe the following, as a person.

I don't think I contribute to anything negative when I buy factory meat or fast food. What is, is the here and now. The spirit comes from the inside out, and doesn't travel three persons removed into my choice of the moment. I don't think a purchase supports an industry. I don't think restraint supports the abandonment of an industry.

Here we get back to the 'meat' of the discussion, and I thank you for moving the conversation back in a constructive direction. I'd like to preface my response by saying, OK: Your perspective is valid for you. I totally disagree with you on this, and yet overall like, love and honor you as the Creator. It's OK that we have a different view.

Personally, I think that when you regularly buy, barter, or trade something on a regular basis, you create a demand for that item, whatever it is. The more people that do this, the more the demand grows.

Take for example immigrant situations. 20 years ago, you would have been hard pressed to get a good burrito and many Mexican specialty items in my tiny one-horse town. Thanks to immigration, demand for these items has grown considerably and now you can get an authentic burrito at no less than 5 different establishments and there is a Mexican specialty store. The reason? Demand, of course! If people weren't buying it, and asking it, it wouldn't be available. And in 3D things don't just appear out of thin air...sometimes they take a system or a process to produce.

I also think there is an ENORMOUS difference in the conditions in which animals are raised and slaughtered on factory farms versus small, humane, and sustainable operations, such as Austin's. One only needs to visit the farms in question to see how much happier and healthier the animals are when kept in compassionate and sustainable farms versus agri-business meat factories.

I believe that what I choose to purchase does have an impact. By buying from factory farms, I'm supporting what goes behind it. By buying from small, sustainable, and humane farms I'm supporting a system that, in my subjective view, creates less suffering. By abstaining from meat altogether, I am creating a demand for more vegetarian food and reducing the demand altogether for meat.

Sure, I could be wrong on all this... and it's my subjective opinion. But this is how I feel about it. If you'd like to further explain your opinion and perspective, I will read it over and carefully consider it, the same as I hope you just did with mine.

But if, in the end, we find we just don't see eye to eye on it, I guess we'll have to label that "just fine".

Namaste, Brother.

The first is the notion that a person can speak/feel on behalf of another. I have a very strong reaction toward claims that somebody knows how the animals feel, or how Gaia feels, or how another member feels, or how *I* feel. This seems to me as setting oneself up as an authority over others and *to me* feels like a boundary violation. In my opinion, one should only speak for themselves unless they have been specifically appointed as a representative for others.

Hmm, I find that I agree with you for the most part on this, especially amongst humans, but one piece perplexes me. When I say that I find animals suffering in factory farms, it's because of the squalid conditions, the moans and cries, and the signs of disease that I base this upon. It seems reasonable, even if it is subjective, for me to conclude that these animals are suffering. I would recognize it if a person speaking Chinese was suffering, even if I didn't understand the words.

Or did you mean more the other people and Gai on this? I feel like you make a good point here overall, I just think it's reasonable to conclude that an animal is suffering based on what our five senses can tell us.

It may be that my bias on this topic is clouding me from seeing how the two relate, I concede that. But do you dispute the basic premise that I am making that these animals suffer because we don't know with 100% certainty that is what they're experiencing?

If you do, again, that's ok, I just am trying to understand and find other perspectives interesting and helpful.


Love to all