In regards to eating meat

[Pablísimo]

This is one of the ways I am perceiving the arguments for, and against, eating meat:

1. Personal. There is "you," the self. The self had free will. The self chooses. The self feels that he/she needs certain foods, is free to choose, does not want to be told what to do, has his/her own path, interacts with the world as self and world.

2. Universal. There is the "all." When considering what to do about x, it involves considering all: the ecosystem, the planet, the universe, all the beings, evolution, and more.

I've also noticed these two broad categories, and find it an astute observation.

I think part of the challenge we've all had here is finding some way to honor each individual's personal right to choose while still advocating our OPINION of the universal implications of that choice, collectively.

In fairness, I think most of us tend to think we are acting for the highest universal good, but unfortunately we don't all see it the same way. So how can one share their point of view that "My way is the best way" while still not judging other people who disagree? I believe it is possible among spiritually mature and compassionate human beings, but takes some collective effort to remember to see the Creator in others who disagree with us about something we feel strongly about. Yet even though most of us, across the dietary spectrum, have sincerely been trying to discuss these concepts in a general sense, we somehow keep end up talking about it in a personal way and discussing our rights to choose. I don't know what to do about that, to be honest, if it is even possible to resolve. Maybe we need to talk about both simultaneously in order to have a balanced discussion?

While I care about, and take responsibility for, my "self," my health, my free will, and my path, my real reason for being in this discussion is the universal one. I thought coming into this discussion was a way to discuss the universal implications of meat-eating. It has turned into individuals defending their right to choose.

To speak further to your point, I think we all have an opinion on what is "Best" for the "all". I bet some people think if Humanity as a whole stopped producing Reality TV we'd have a better world. But I'm just as convinced some people think Reality TV is irrelevant, one issue among many, or even helpful as a spiritual mirror. Who knows who is right? What I don't understand still is why this topic of meat vs vegetarian lifestyle should be any different than any other topic in terms of strong opinions? I think we should be able to clearly state our opinions on what is best for the all, if done with compassion and honor for the Other-Self.

I agree with everybody's right to choose. And yet, if anyone wants to, I invite them to consider what is best for the all, not just the self. This does not mean that I think meat-eating is not good for the all. I would just like a conversation to that end.

When I consider the "all", when I honestly look at all of the data I have available to me , both subjective and objective, and try to decide what would be the most beneficial for all beings involved, I come to the conclusion that the vegetarian choice is best for the "all". That is, I honestly believe it is a more compassionate choice that benefits the maximum number of beings. My subjective, biased opinion is that if all humans would go vegetarian, that it would help make this a better, happier world. I honestly believe it would solve some of our most vexing problems, relieve suffering for many, many beings in great measure, improve both human and animal health, and help the state of the environment we all share. I find it to be an option that is more congruent with evolving down the STO path and, in my biased and subjective opinion, would be best for humanity to collectively choose.

I feel that my personal choice for me is also beneficial to the "all". This is my opinion, and I realize I don't have a perfect vision, but it's how I feel. And I absolutely respect and do not judge other people who feel differently. Agreement on my opinions is not required for me to love, honor, and respect other people.

Do you think it would be a helpful exercise for us all to lay out our opinion of what is best for the all, and why? Assuming we agree up-front that we are speaking in general terms and accept other viewpoints?

Is that the type of conversation you would find more constructive and helpful? Or did you have something else in mind?

3. Trans-Personal. Within the illusory distinction between "self" and "all" exists an entire array of viewpoints which are somewhere in-between. As the "self" grows in awareness to become the "all", this array of viewpoints is what allows each personal self to trace a unique path back toward unity. Thus, when considering what to do and/or how to be, each consciousness is actually simultaneously choosing on all possible levels, whether or not it is consciously aware of this.

LOL....how very true. I think that, in a way, this thread is providing a perfect example, when taken as a whole, of that transpersonal view.

Love to all