In regards to eating meat

[Tenet Nosce]

As far as animals gaining awareness through physical suffering, I will say this: do you want to be part of this way for animals to learn and evolve?

I am a part of it, whether I like it or not. I understand this may seem overly obtuse or evasive to you, but to me, this is profoundly important and directly bears upon the issue of suffering. When I read things like...

Upon this highway you are neither old nor young, male or female, wealthy or impoverished. You are one who journeys as the prodigal son and daughter, having been flung far from your source of being. Now you move through illusion upon illusion in the twilight dream within a dream which is incarnational experience. As you sit here, each seeker has the sorrows of unfulfilled hopes, expectations and love. Each feels the pang of suffering. And yet, each is still attempting to find solutions to the suffering rather than finding space and time within to allow each portion of experience, including suffering, to have a hospitable room to dwell in while it visits you.

... I actually take these things to heart and attempt to apply them into my life. Some others might view these as "airy-fairy" or "empty platitudes" with little to no practical application in the everyday world. That is fine. Personally, I view this as central to my spiritual journey.

I will present an analogy: Humans learn through suffering. Do you want to support human sex-trafficking, or wife-beating, or Apartheid, or child-abuse, because it helps humans learn and evolve?

Acceptance and approval are two different things, in my opinion. I believe that which we place our attention on grows in our experience. Thus, a constant railing "against" all these perceived "wrongs" in society actually does support them.

Again, I am not trying to be evasive. None of these things are that which I would consciously choose. However, in my very strong opinion, the only way to bring an end to these is to transcend the dualistic mindset from which they are born. This cannot be done if we insist on carving the world up into two camps, drawing lines in the sand, and waging war against whatever we have judged to be "bad".

The world is what it is. I don't perceive the value in causing myself to suffer over the perceived suffering of others. That sounds to me like adding more suffering to the world, not taking away from it.

Suffering is not the ONLY way humans learn; it is one way. Perhaps it is a common way because humans seem to have a high resistance to change.

In my opinion, suffering is only employed after the more subtle and/or joyful methods of learning have failed. Repeatedly.

So, I must conclude, that in considering suffering is a way for animals to evolve, it is not the only way, and I do not want to be a part of the suffering way.

In my opinion- you are a part of it, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, drawing lines between "you" and "I" or "us" and "them", is actually at the root of all suffering. Thus, making those lines harder or even more well-defined cannot be the answer.

Thank you. This does seem obvious doesn't it?

Yes. It seems obvious to me. But in my opinion, whether or not others perceive it in the same way that I do falls squarely under the category of "none of my damn business". I didn't come here to "change the world", rather I came here to be myself in a world that is full of contrast and contradictions. In my opinion, "changing the world" is a very cunning distraction from the true work which is internal. However, I also acknowledge that distractions are part of the overall spiritual journey.

My hope is that here, at this site, there will be others who not only see this, but follow your example and buy meat from humane sources, so we can move forward in eliminating a market for such unnecessary abuse.

If that is your hope and desire, then I would highly recommend that you continue to direct your energy into whatever you are in support of, rather than whatever you are against.

Thanks for the discussion.

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In my opinion, many vegans who have subscribed to the doctrine of harmlessness have submerged an archetype of aggression, and as such are constantly drawing to themselves experiences of "being attacked" by the meat-eaters. I also note that the experience of "being attacked" by meat-eaters can occur whether or not there was an intention to attack. Such is the strength of our projections.

In my further opinion, the doctrine of harmlessness, or ahimsa, is a cornerstone of a very cunning and crafty STS plot to keep people chained to the lower densities. By genetically engineering humans to have aggressive and bellicose natures, and then promulgating a "spiritual" doctrine of harmlessness, the STS controllers ensure that humanity is perpetually at odds with itself. The more that the "spiritual" people deny their own aggressiveness, the more that it becomes outwardly expressed as warlike behaviors in others.

A second cornerstone in the STS agenda is the doctrine of karman which says that the spirit can become "defiled" by food substances taken into the body. Both of these doctrines are heavily promoted in the Jainist philosophy and are often piggy-backed onto the practice of yoga and thus are Trojan-horsed into pop Western culture.

But getting back to the point- if one doesn't want to eat meat, then don't. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking that we can truly attain a state of complete "harmlessness" in relation to the outer world. Keeping oneself beholden to an unattainable ideal can only lead one to greater suffering, in my opinion. It is quite possible, and preferable, to navigate according to one's inner spiritual compass without having to constantly measure oneself up to unattainable ideals. It is entirely possible to declare I AM THIS, without having to simultaneously declare I AM NOT THAT.

If one is looking out into the world and seeing all this intolerable suffering going on in others... perhaps it is a projection of suffering which is going on within oneself. If we really and truly want to bring an end to suffering "in the world" then I would highly recommend that we start with our own selves. Then, when we have learned how to put an end to our own suffering, perhaps we will be more fully empowered to help end the suffering of others, including our animal-selves.

My suggestion- which is only a suggestion- is that our most pressing spiritual challenge at this nexus is to come to terms with the fact that all these ravenous meat-eaters, child-traffickers, racists, wife-beaters, etc. that we see in the world are actually projections of qualities which we have denied within ourselves. They are "other yous" waiting to be re-integrated into our consciousness, and when we accomplish this (and we will) then we will no longer find ourselves in an outer environment which is full of suffering and discontent, but rather one that is full of joy and contentment.