In regards to eating meat

[Patrick]

I do not even kill flies or spiders at home, I just bring them outside. Because there is no need to kill them.

So I would say yes here.

Medical research disagrees with you. There is no proof whatsoever that meat is necessary for anyone...

I do not agree, but we did not agree on a format for such a discussion. So I will simply not discuss this subject.

"Is it compassionate to animals to let someone else kill them, and maybe even torture them, so that we can eat them?"

If those handling these animals were to ask my opinion, I would certainly tell them that I would prefer animals were treated with compassion.

Well that's very nice, if but one chooses to eat the animal anyway, knowing how it was treated, then that is sharing in the responsibility.

Just as in a court of law...someone who watches a crime while doing nothing to stop it, is still held partially responsible.

How about the responsibility/honor that I have towards my other selves living with me and around me? They eat meat, if I was to stop, this would affect them negatively and hurt them (I've already discussed this with them in the past). These are the catalysts that I am provided with and that I use.

I do not support our court of laws, nor do I support the concept of "laws" as we create them on Earth to control. Our concept of crime is extremely distorted from the concept of polarity.

Humans believe they can judge what is right and what is wrong for others. This is a very serious distortion. It's a big part of our insanity.

"that much is clear"

You can't know that.

Valtor, I can only assume by this statement that you haven't watched the slaughterhouse videos. A being struggling furiously and wailing in pain and terror, is communicating with us. It boggles my mind that anyone could watch this and conclude that we can't know whether the animal wished to die, so I will conclude you haven't watched the videos.

I watched the slaughterhouse videos a couple years ago while doing my research on nutrition. Not pretty!

This brings us back to treatment of animals. You believe eating meat signifies our intent to support bad treatment. I do not believe the same.

IMHO you would get better results by fighting for animal being treated with compassion than fighting to stop people from eating meat.

Then let people make up their own conclusions about meat eating. Only the self can do this work.

If you now argue the point that they do wish to die on a soul level, then try applying that to humans and see how it works. If a human needs the catalyst of being murdered, then fine, but it's not the job of the STO entity to oblige that. That's an STS function.

And if so, it would also apply to plants.

We've already covered that, ad nauseum.

Maybe, but you do not understand my point of view on the subject. Plants wanting to die or not is very relevant to me!

Do you realize that plants have a mind with emotions ? The mind does not require a physical brain. They are mind/body complexes, just like animals.

The way these animals are treated.

Is not killing someone poor treatment?

That's an interesting question.

We could discuss it more.

Exactly the one we live in.

Are you sure? What if they're populating a world much darker than the one we live in? Do we really want the responsibility of that?

And, even if it is just like the one we're in, why would anyone wish that upon fledgling 3D entities? Don't we want to do our part to create something better for them? This has been a most traumatic 3D sojourn. It's unusual. Most planets don't have the amount of bloodshed our planet has endured.

I want no part of perpetuating that.

I was implying that this is happening right here and now in our current collective illusion.

I believe we do not have the same understanding of the purpose of our 3d illusion here on Earth. It's a game that humans take very seriously.

Then those treating animals this way, if aware, are maybe the STS entities you're talking about.

Either that, or they're just really blocked up or ignorant.

But eating meat produced in such way - and this includes ANY visit to virtually any restaurant - is sharing in the responsibility in that STS action.

I would include "blocked up or ignorant" in the unaware group.

I do not agree on your second statement.

Actually, our task is to respond to catalyst.

I disagree...

Noted.

I'm not skipping the heart chakra. It's balanced.

I don't believe any of us can truly know for sure the degree of our balancing, until we walk the Steps of Light.

I agree. I'm just sharing my current understanding of who I am.

I'm not here to polarize, I am here to balance too much wisdom with compassion.

Well if that's the case, then an opportunity to embrace greater compassion is right under your nose.

I believe the sum total of this choice (stop eating meat) would actually result in a net loss of compassion. As hard as this may be to believe from your perspective. You cannot know my situation.

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I'll reply to the rest in a latter post.