dual bodied and ayahuasca/time dilation

[Ocean]

C, STO is control over yourself. also control means ability, not suppression. i control where my hand goes, i'm not suppressing it from laying limp.

[Confused]

C, STO is control over yourself. also control means ability, not suppression. i control where my hand goes, i'm not suppressing it from laying limp.

Should never ask stupid questions to great masters like Ra or Ocean. They can tear the questioner to shreds with the intensity of their practical logic!

[native]

I'll just stick with dreams for spiritual work. If psychedelocs reach me through synchronicity, that'll be the day.

Good idea!

[Ocean]

And weren't the pyramids also a short-cut? They were an intensely more powerful and efficient one too There is nothing wrong with wanting to experience mushrooms or ayahuasca. I'm not encouraging it or condoning it.

The pyramids were used to initiate 3d beings though.

I would argue that psychedelics have always played a major role in our development. All belief systems other than the obvious ones, have shamans. Shamans pull their knowledge from psychedelics. Much of our spiritual philosophies came from shamanic principles by way of anthropology. The psychedelic revolution contributed greatly and had a ripple effect. The philosophies and the attraction to Eastern concepts remained, as the hippies who got lost in the drugs burnt out. A seed was planted though.

I will also say that I obviously believe that wanderers are most responsible for the spiritual change that has taken place here. However, the information that has been available for wanderers to pursue, in many cases came from psychedelics. It permeated our culture and created change.

What can be said for certain though, is that the counterculture and psychedelic revolution happened for a reason. I don't always like the phrase "happened for a reason", so I'll say instead that it had its purpose and it was positive.

3DM - It's against the forum rules to go into details like that here, my friend. Look up Paul Stamets

I was born awake in many respects, then came into full realization after reading eastern philosophies and new age topics. What's interesting is that many of my beliefs were then refined by listening to psychedelic lectures and the concepts discussed without having taken any at that time. I then discovered the Law of One which brought completion.

So without experiencing psychedelics, reading about the spiritual knowledge gained from them helped me to exercise concepts and find truth. Being a wanderer will obviously be the greatest contributing factor though.

Up until now, I have only taken mushrooms once. This was after quite a few years of research on psychedelics and reflection on the issue.

The only thing I will share, is that at the peak of my journey, my perspective became that of the Creator and I experienced intelligent infinity..or whatever it was. I was astonished as to where I found myself, and I was very much connected to time/space experiencing the eternal present that's spoken of in relation to the octave.

My experience was a positive one. I feel it's best that I not go into all the details and influence any decisions. I'd rather provide balance by saying that psilocybin taught me little so to speak in terms of great knowledge, because I had already done much inner-work and acquired knowledge through a lifetime of silent contemplation.

Learning to work with the veil is always the most efficient way of progressing. This doesn't mean that psychedelics aren't useful, or simply just an experience worth having. Continual repeated use is the issue really. Perhaps the most advice I can give is to do your inner-work first regardless.

They are what they are. The choice is yours.

Also, I will say that I have never laughed as hard in my entire life.

i'm not saying drugs don't have their uses, but it's no way to mastery, which is what i want to achieve. it's like using a key instead of learning to pick any lock yourself. what happens when you don't have that key? you're locked out. using a shortcut can mean you are not fully learning. you're only going inside to look for some crap to steal but you don't learn how to access the house. i guess what i'm going for is self-sufficiency.

i don't think drugs were what causes the spiritual awakening, look at tibetan monks and cultures from way past, who ascended, they either used meditation or yes, maybe they used plants. but to lay all the glory on drugged out hippies is not something i can agree with.

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C, STO is control over yourself. also control means ability, not suppression. i control where my hand goes, i'm not suppressing it from laying limp.

Should never ask stupid questions to great masters like Ra or Ocean. They can tear the questioner to shreds with the intensity of their practical logic!

lol! *ego balloons* stop with the compliments or i'll end up like Icarus. hoop, there's the sun! oh hi Ra! *starts to melt*

[native]

I look at the experience as similar to a UFO encounter or a near-death experience.

With the time/space perspective, it can be is as if things have been turned inside-out. You look at a person, say across the room, and you can read (or feel) their thoughts, emotion and attitude, all instantaneously, without thinking.

I actually updated my experience and added some things about death. The psychic moments are quite baffling..especially how the connections that are made instantaneously. I think the best way to describe it, is that all of the people are tuned into the present awareness/moment. In this way, what they see is surely what you are seeing. It's not so much that you are reading them, but the flow of the One can be felt, and tap the informational field of Oneness, instantly recognizing what is within them.

With ayahuasca especially, things are visually manifested that can be seen by all. Like with the icaro songs. The songs are ancient and passed down from the ages. As the shaman sings, he calls and sings them into existence and everyone can see them. They are simply tapping into infinity and manifesting it. This is an exquisite act of beauty to me, and an honor for one who is able to do it. I personally resonate with the shaman archetype very strongly. It was probably a role I played..and given all that the shaman does, it probably created a deep imprint on my identity.

"An Icaro is a shamanic power song learned from an elder shaman or spirits. They are used to communicate with the spirits of the natural world, to heal the sick, and to actually provoke certain kinds of visual displays or visions in those intoxicated with ayahuasca. The most important of these songs are those learned from the spirits themselves or those recieved in the dream visions which can follow an ayahuasca session."

[Ocean]

that sounds beautiful, Derek. it makes me think of Futurama.

[native]

i'm not saying drugs don't have their uses, but it's no way to mastery, which is what i want to achieve. it's like using a key instead of learning to pick any lock yourself. what happens when you don't have that key? you're locked out. using a shortcut can mean you are not fully learning. you're only going inside to look for some crap to steal but you don't learn how to access the house. i guess what i'm going for is self-sufficiency.

i don't think drugs were what causes the spiritual awakening, look at tibetan monks and cultures from way past, who ascended, they either used meditation or yes, maybe they used plants. but to lay all the glory on drugged out hippies is not something i can agree with.

I never said drugs were responsible for the spiritual awakenings my friend. I made clear distinctions that the philosophies have permeated our modern culture and have only contributed. They are intertwined.

In respect with everything else you said, I agree completely and is why I waited to try psilocybin. But I'm not going to say they are bad, because they aren't.

The problem here is the use of the word short-cut. I'm hesitant to call them that..they might more properly be called catalysts. This is what the pyramids were, catalysts. The pyramids were 3d beings though, to be used by 3d beings. If you take psychedelics, and don't make use of the responsibility of what is shown to you about the self, this negatively effects you and more catalyst comes into your life. Whether or not you learn from the journey is what counts.

I'm in agreement with the mastery concept though..personally.

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that sounds beautiful, Derek. it makes me think of Futurama.

lol in what way? i don't watch that show much.

[Ocean]

there was one ep where Fry got smart and he learned to play a holographic emotion tuba.

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let's just agree to agree. i think we're getting semantic.

[turtledude23]

C, STO is control over yourself. also control means ability, not suppression. i control where my hand goes, i'm not suppressing it from laying limp.

Should never ask stupid questions to great masters like Ra or Ocean. They can tear the questioner to shreds with the intensity of their practical logic!

There are no stupid questions.

[Ocean]

only stupid people.

[native]

Holographic emotion tuba haha..that's pretty similar.

"The doctor spirits teach the shamans their icaros. Icaros are expressed in the form of song and are a major system of delivery of the shamans’ spiritual energy. They are used to bring on mareación (the visionary effects of the Ayahuasca), take mareación away, call in different plant spirits, call in the spirits of others or the deceased, take away dark spirits and dark energies, and manage the ceremony.

Icaros are either whistled or sung, and can be expressed in any language. The shamans generally sing in a spirit dialect that is a mixture of their native language (i.e. Quechua, Shipibo-Conibo, Asháninka, etc.), Spanish, and different evocative sounds. Icaros represent a system of communication between the shaman and the spirits, and the shaman and the participants in the ceremony. The shamans believe that every living thing has an icaro and that these icaros can be learned.

The singing of icaros is sometimes accompanied by the Chakapa, shacapa, a leaf rattle that is used to carry the rhythm of the ceremony. The shaman will use his shacapa to direct energy and the icaros, as well as send away dark or unwanted energies. Each icaro is used to contact a different spirit, for use of healing."

[zenmaster]

I look at the experience as similar to a UFO encounter or a near-death experience.

With the time/space perspective, it can be is as if things have been turned inside-out. You look at a person, say across the room, and you can read (or feel) their thoughts, emotion and attitude, all instantaneously, without thinking.

I actually updated my experience and added some things about death. The psychic moments are quite baffling..especially how the connections that are made instantaneously. I think the best way to describe it, is that all of the people are tuned into the present awareness/moment. In this way, what they see is surely what you are seeing. It's not so much that you are reading them, but the flow of the One can be felt, and tap the informational field of Oneness, instantly recognizing what is within them.

ok, I make a distinction between intersubjective experience or shared-mind awareness, and the one where there is no sharing of immediate experience due to other not expanding concscious awareness to that level. With mutual trust, the intersubjective experience can even be had as a large group. People pay money to have this experience in spiritual retreats.

[native]

Yes, as long as there is shared-mind awareness as you call it. We agree.

[hogey11]

thanks for sharing Hogey. i like how Graham Hancock talks about it. why can't you take it alone?

SOrry for the late reply, Ocean.

The reason they suggest you never take it alone is similar to the effects that Ra speaks of when channeling/meditating. By putting yourself in the hands of DMT, you expose yourself in the astral realms. Without some level of protection, things could get scary and you could be contacted by negative energies/entities. The documentary I saw had one guy go through a real bout with the throwing-up aspect, and the shamans that were watching over the ceremony said they could see demons 20 feet tall come out of his mouth before he finally puked. Ayahauscaa is not a drug; its a spiritual 'medicine' in the amazonian tribes. The throwing up is seen as the 'purge' of negative thoughts/entities before you embark on your trip. If you do not expel these energies/entities properly, things can prolly get pretty nasty is what i'm thinking...

The people 'with' you don't need to be doing the drug, they just need to be there to send you light/love when or if you need it. Ayahuascaa is apparently very much an 'inside drug'; the user shows nearly no interaction with the outside world while on their 'trip', as its nearly all internal. But, if someone is there to see you start to tweak out, and they can pray for you/comfort you, that can be extremely helpful (again, this is what i've read, i haven't done it yet )

DMT is the same way - NEVER ALONE! When you smoke DMT, many times it hits so fast that someone needs to stop the fire from the lighter and remove the pipe from your lips manually, as you will burn yourself silly if someone doesn't help you (you go from a [0] to a [10] in half a second). Ayahauscaa is the "slow scenic route', if you will, on the DMT highway.

[Ocean]

thank you, that's really helpful!

[Edinburgh]

The problem here is the use of the word short-cut. I'm hesitant to call them that..they might more properly be called catalysts. This is what the pyramids were, catalysts. If you take psychedelics, and don't make use of the responsibility of what is shown to you about the self, this negatively effects you and more catalyst comes into your life. Whether or not you learn from the journey is what counts.

I'm in agreement with the mastery concept though..personally.

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Well said. I totally agree. I also tried Ayahuasca after reading about it for several months. I'd never tried any 'drugs' before, and the warning in LOO from Ra about LSD and marijuana sank deep. Howerver Aya is not seen as a 'drug' but more a 'medicine'. It is a distilled catalyst experience for sure. You will grow spiritually and emotionally.

However, I feel the ayahuasca experience will make little sense unless you have a framework to relate the experience to (i.e. time/space in the LOO sense). OR a shaman to make sense of the experience. For me, LOO, a candle, "The Beginners Guide to Shamanism" by Sandra Ingerman, incense and a lot of meditation and fasting worked fine.

A lot of people are learning about Aya now. "Sting" the singer recently took part in a documentary called "2012 Time for Change" where he openly advocates people to take Ayahuasca in preparation for the upcoming earth changes. http://youtu.be/hBQA2rYkaRw

In another documentary from Jan 2011, scientists, psychologists, rabbis, doctors, writers, artists all talk about the unique positive qualities of Aya and the DMT compound. http://youtu.be/iTZftPWbWj8

@Hogey11 However a death experience and loss of ego and self identity might not be for everyone. What spurred me on to try it was Ra's words about us all having to die in 3D, and I figured it not supposed to be 'bad' but part of the process. Having come back from an "out of body" experience, life certainly feels great!

[turtledude23]

A lot of people are learning about Aya now. "Sting" the singer recently took part in a documentary called "2012 Time for Change" where he openly advocates people to take Ayahuasca in preparation for the upcoming earth changes. http://youtu.be/hBQA2rYkaRw

In another documentary from Jan 2011, scientists, psychologists, rabbis, doctors, writers, artists all talk about the unique positive qualities of Aya and the DMT compound. http://youtu.be/iTZftPWbWj8

Both look awesome, thanks for the links.

[Ocean]

did the trip last that long, Edingburgh? what worries me is the time aspect rather than the demons.

[3DMonkey]

"a medicine"

that's a game changer

[Ocean]

semantics.

[native]

Yes, nice links Edinburgh.

I have to clarify my position here. I edited my original post..

If you consider yourself a wanderer, wanting to have an experience is fine, but I can only support B4th's position by saying that you shouldn't be hoping to find what you're looking for through psychedelics. You came here to aid the planet, and work with yourself by way of the veil.

When I said the psychedelic revolution was useful, I meant it was useful to 3d beings to break out of certain dogmas. I believe them to be a tool for 3d beings. The spiritual philosophies and truths gleaned from THEIR experiences, were helpful to creating a more open and diverse culture. The body of knowledge available to all is useful.

Of course, wanderers are the main contributing factor here.

As a wanderer, you have to be coming from a place within yourself that you know who you are and what is out of balance, while actively working towards balance before even coming close to deciding to have an experience. They are neither good or bad in the greater sense (with exception to the obvious ones that you should not do), but if you choose to have an experience, you must learn to accept and integrate what you discover.

[3DMonkey]

"Previously known as Derek~"

whaaaaat? What kind of tomfoolery is this? Am I tripping?

[Ocean]

like the artist formerly knows as Derek

[native]

I penetrated the veil and tapped intelligent infinity's sweet sweet ass

[3DMonkey]

I penetrated the veil and tapped intelligent infinity's sweet sweet a$$

LOL, take it to the treehouse

then play astrology

[Ocean]

omg...

[turtledude23]

lolololololol

On a more serious note: marijuana helped me alot, my spiritual journey began by me flinging a barbeque lighter into my eye when I was high and me praying to be healed, I felt what I later found out was kundalini and ever since then I started getting interested in spirituality and getting high alone in order to enter deep states of meditation. If you guys had bad trips or don't want to challenge the stigma placed on psychoactive substances by society, religion, and significant others then thats fine but I don't think it's fair to discourage other people from taking the chance to glimpse a truer reality, a glimpse which could mean the difference between being on a spiritual path and not being on one.

[3DMonkey]

Tdude,

I spent high school high on weed. I got no problem with it, except now, as I'm responsible for much more than myself, its illegality keeps me away. Besides, I haven't touched it since my first date with my wife, 12 years ago. TMI?

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It didn't make me spiritual though. No, just lazy. Oh wait, I can't blame my laziness on weed. Actually I enjoyed physical activity while high. It just turns out it was fruitless activity

[Edinburgh]

did the trip last that long, Edinburgh? what worries me is the time aspect rather than the demons.

I took what was considered mild or weak doses, and as such each experience peak was over within 2 hours.

Some people that go all the way out to the Amazon to have a (paid) excursion with a shaman, generally expect to get 'their money's worth', and I see that these doses given are pretty strong. However, by doing it in the privacy of your own home, you can take your time. I've had three experiences in 1 year, all 'mild doses' but all helpful.

(The caveat to this information is that in time/space, 2 hours could feel much much longer.)

The book I mentioned from Sandra Ingerman was very helpful. She states that 'journeying is very safe, you have full control of where you go, whom you talk to, and how you direct your thoughts'. On that basis when I entered time/space I felt that I could deal with any demons /negative thoughts. And those affirmations seemed to work.

Ra talks about those 'Men in black' that cannot physically hurt you; they can be dealt with by expressing love ... this is what I did.

It all comes down to what your metaphysical framework is. If you believe that 'there are no mistakes' and all is catalyst, that's one thing. If you believe that God is judging you, and that you have sin inside you, it's another.

Traditional shamans believe in demons that have to be cast out. (Personally I think this is a metaphor for negative thoughts, i.e. 'thoughts become things').

Modern shamans like Ingerman have qualifications in psychology and therapy, and talk of 'soul loss' and using a journey to recover lost soul elements. This to me made a lot of sense.

... wanting to have an experience is fine, but I can only support B4th's position by saying that you shouldn't be hoping to find what you're looking for through psychedelics. You came here to aid the planet, and work with yourself by way of the veil.

... you have to be coming from a place within yourself that you know who you are and what is out of balance, while actively working towards balance before even coming close to deciding to have an experience. They are neither good or bad in the greater sense (with exception to the obvious ones that you should not do), but if you choose to have an experience, you must learn to accept and integrate what you discover.

I totally agree. Aya is not something you do for fun. It's a catalyst that can help you work towards getting balance. It's still up to your free-will to work those lessons into your 3D life. As we are now in 2011 ... heading towards the harvest, it could be helpful for some to work on improving this balance.

BTW, it tastes awful ... thus even more like a medicine! Good news is it's legal, under a US supreme court ruling.

[Edinburgh]

An update -- Instead of continuing with Ayahuasca, I went on to spend more time with the binaural beats from Monroe, and then later started producing my own using Gnaural software.

The reason I didn't go further with the Ayahuasca was primarily due to learning more about intuition and the developing of such.

Tom Campbell has a lot of material about this (whole lectures on youtube and his books are all free) and the holographic nature of reality, all based on hard science, fact and empirical results - primarily from the quantum mechanics point of view. Anyway, Tom is also one of the original Monroe researchers, and is a pioneer of the Out of Body experience, but without using any substances, just via binaural trance/ meditation. He strongly suggested not using any more psychadelics to go out of body, because it was so hard to control the experience. He said it was a good thing to do once or twice, to experience the 'grand picture' and raise curiosity, but if you could access all that withOUT the substances, and still retain some sense of control, the whole experience could be more beneficial, in terms of spiritual growth.

Anyway, this is what I have been doing. It's harder to do. It's much closer to meditation.

It seems to be working. I have had glimpses of OOB ... I have had strong results in other areas too.

The binaural beats - if done properly - are really helpful I feel.