In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

(Although I am of the opinion that once a responsible and mature relationship with the planet is established, our population can be nourished entirely with plant material. I seem to have distant memories of it being done on third density venus... )

Agreed!

So any information I'm giving isn't trying to sway anyone to one side or the other, it's just information that I've found interesting and expanding on the subject.

ok! Thanks for sharing!

With that in mind, I would like to invite you to read a Kryon channeling session that addresses the topic of consumption of animals. You may have already read it or it may not resonate with you at all. If either of those are the case, I apologize in advance.

No need to apologize! Many things said on this forum, and even in the Law of One, might resonate with some of use but not others. That's absolutely ok!

I did read the Kryon info you posted, and it didn't resonate with me at all.

I respect that you have found the info useful, and I thank you for sharing it. As is being discussed on our 'other channeled sources' sub-forum, most channeled info is about spiritual matters, and therefore subjective, so each of us can have a different opinion about it, and no one can say one is right or wrong.

But in the case of info that is demonstrable, provable, tangible, that is where it's easy to prove or disprove a particular bit of data.

In this case, I have no opinion about Kryon because I have never read anything from Kryon, until now. But in that little segment about eating animals, I found it to be provably, demonstrably, and tangibly incorrect.

It may be that Kryon is a pure, undistorted source on spiritual matters - I have no idea - but on this issue, my opinion is that this source is distorted, probably due to bias.

This isn't because of my own bias in favor of eating a vegetarian diet for spiritual and ethical reasons, but because of scientific facts.

Many don't like to hear this, but understand that collectively the animals understand this. They have to be part of the Human food chain, since humanity doesn't have the ability to grow things fast enough and distribute that food.

This is where he lost me, because, well, it's simply not true, on both counts. Aside from, perhaps, the occasional exception due to unusual medical conditions, animals don't have to be part of the food chain, as far as humans are concerned, because there is overwhelming scientific data proving that humans don't need to eat animals, and in fact are, in general, healthier if they don't eat animals.

It's also simply not true that "humanity doesn't have the ability to grow things fast enough and distribute that food." Not only is this not true, but it's glaringly and patently false, because it takes much more plant life to feed the farm animals than it does to feed the humans directly. It's much more efficient to grow and distribute plant foods than animal foods. If everyone on the planet became vegetarian, we wouldn't have many of the problems we face today, regarding shortage of resources, pollution, etc. In fact the meat and dairy industries account for the bulk of the assault on the environment!

Again, I usually try to avoid ever saying something is 'wrong' but in this case, the above statements simply do not agree with what we know to be proven and factual.

The subjective decision about whether to eat animals or not is based on many factors, but I would hope that, at the very least, the decision can be made on facts rather than on inaccuracies.

Again, I appreciate your sharing the info! And I respect that Kryon apparently resonates with you. I'm just expressing my own opinion about Kryon's opinion. My statements about the inaccuracies regarding tangible facts, can be backed up with a little research.

[Monica]

The Bible specifically gives us 120 years of life until the allowance of eating flesh, then allows for 70 years of life.

Can you cite the place in the bible where this is talked about? I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your statement here.

Here is an excellent article about the eating of animals from a Biblical perspective:

http://atmajyoti.org/ch_four_soul_killers.asp

I personally don't consider the Bible authoritative, and I don't necessarily agree with everything in this article (particularly the part about wine!), but it does offer some excellent Biblical references on the subject.

[Meerie]

Thanks Aaron for sharing the Kryon quote… in fact I was thinking of that too, but could not find it in the moment.
Yes @ndy I agree about pulling the leaves out of plants… there are scientists who have proven that plants can feel pain too.
Honestly, don’t you think that the wheat feels pain when it gets run over and plucked out by the harvester? Don’t you think the apple would rather stay on the tree, instead of being plucked and munched by you? Plants are living beings and as such feel pain. Just you don’t see blood being shed therefore you think it does not matter.
Personally I think as long as we are here on this planet and need to eat in order to survive, we will always tread on some beings toes.
You know the die-hard vegetarian I mentioned earlier killed a mosquito that was biting her the other day. I said “well that is an animal too, so how come you have no scrupule killing it “. She said it was different with mosquitos Lol.
You will always step on ants and bugs while walking the ground and thus kill them.
I am just offering a different view here. Actually I tried to go vegetarian (hear hear!) but I just found I could not exclude things from my diet categorically. If I want meat I eat meat. If I want salad I eat salad. If I want coffee I get some. Hell yeah I even smoke and drink coke (But not all the time)
I think you can eat, drink and smoke (LOL) everything but not exclusively. I am healthy and I do not need to take any medication. I listen to my body and it feels good.
If being vegan /vegetarian and healthy is possible for you, congratulations! Personally I see many fruit and veggie people here at the local organic grocery store who look emaciated, prematurely aged and have thinning hair (yes even the women sometimes)… I just wonder if their lifestyle is so healthy how come they look so bad? But in the end it is a choice every one has to make for himself / herself.
If it makes you happy it can’t be that bad. Peace.

[BrownEye]

Can you cite the place in the bible where this is talked about? I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your statement here.

Genesis 6:3. “And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”

NIV Psalm 90:10 The length of our days is seventy years--or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.

I don't suppose any of the Biblical followers here know what Manna is, or the significance/use?

Many don't like to hear this, but understand that collectively the animals understand this. They have to be part of the Human food chain, since humanity doesn't have the ability to grow things fast enough and distribute that food.

I have only read a small amount of Kryon, It has some gems, but comes across as mostly nonsense to me. Honestly, LOO is the only channeled material that even remotely seems real or is easily validated (if you know how). As for above comment, anyone that knows anything about agriculture would know it is a completely false statement. Considering I live in the middle of hundreds of miles of cornfields, that could easily grow a certain type of expensive superfood, it is easily disproved. All this corn for a few cows. The common arguement against abstaining from meat is B12 deficiency. My father inlaw fell over paralyzed in his front yard one day, until his wife found him. Turns out he had a B12 deficiency, AFTER being a high intake beef eater his whole life. Science does not have all the answers on B12 yet. There are other sources than just killing something for it.

Another thought, people who run into the awakening Kundalini issue unexpectedly, are advised to eat meat to stop it or block it. Basically makes you heavier, slower, more solid,.......and continueing that pattern has death at the end. Ra even advised Carla against meat from what I remember.

My mother has Ra and is wheelchair bound, crippled. She has gone mostly vegetarian, has no need of pain meds now, has more range of movement, and says she feels "cleaner".

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You will always step on ants and bugs while walking the ground and thus kill them.

There is a difference between hitting a deer in a car accidentally, and aiming for the deer on purpose.

If I want meat I eat meat. If I want salad I eat salad. If I want coffee I get some. Hell yeah I even smoke and drink coke (But not all the time)

This worked great for me until about 33. That was the limit that my DNA replication could overcome the damage I was actively pursuing. One persons DNA is different than anothers. There are a few people that can go their whole life and still have their DNA keep up. Most can't. You can look around and find many people in sports that are only successful because of their diet. One that hits home for me is watching an olympic dive (spinning flips and all) and surprise as the guy got out of the water. 84 years old with that ability and claims it was from a lifelong preference of vegetarian lifestyle.

Like I said, my mother is crippled, when I first felt arthritis I got a little paranoid. I couldn't believe how fast different forces of age were hitting me. I basically decided I wanted to live longer, without disability. I am finding others in the area that have dropped meat and lost pain as a result. Very surprising to find anyone like that where I am.

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Honestly, don’t you think that the wheat feels pain when it gets run over and plucked out by the harvester? Don’t you think the apple would rather stay on the tree, instead of being plucked and munched by you?

Wheat is not good for you anyway. An apple is going to fall off and seed. It makes no difference to the tree if you remove it. For all you know it could be the equivalent of a human orgasm, expelling seed.

If you are not sure about what a plant feels, a good idea would be to look at what Shamans do in places like South America. They will communicate with the plant directly to find out "which" plants to eat for "what" purposes. I haven't yet checked, but I am betting they are communicating with the lower density soul.

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Thank you Monica for your link, awesome! It parallels what Ra had to say about living trees.

Are we killing plants?

Often the objection is raised that we are killing plants to eat them. But this is not accurate, either. When we harvest vegetables, we do so at the end of their growth cycle; we don’t “cut them down in the prime of life.” Animals, however, are slaughtered long before their natural lifespan is finished. We must also distinguish between the fruit and the plant. When we pick, say a tomato, we do not kill the plant, but it continues to grow–no life is taken. As for root vegetables such as carrots or potatoes, the “root” that we harvest is the final stage in the plant’s growth; if it were not harvested, the plant would merely rot in the earth. Furthermore, in plants the sensory mind is only potential, it is “asleep.” They do not feel pain. Although they do have a rudimentary nervous system that responds to injury, the conscious mind that would receive the message of pain in animal organisms is not functional.

[Meerie]

Another thought, people who run into the awakening Kundalini issue unexpectedly, are advised to eat meat to stop it or block it. Basically makes you heavier, slower, more solid,.......and continueing that pattern has death at the end.

I think we all have death in the end... I have not heard of a vegetarian who "survived" LOL. Even they die in the end.

My mother has Ra and is wheelchair bound, crippled. She has gone mostly vegetarian, has no need of pain meds now, has more range of movement, and says she feels "cleaner".

ARe you talking about Rachitis? or Arthritis? Actually I agree with you in that aspect, eliminating meat can be helpful in that case.

Wheat is not good for you anyway. An apple is going to fall off and seed. It makes no difference to the tree if you remove it. For all you know it could be the equivalent of a human orgasm, expelling seed.

Wheat was just an example, you can insert any kind of vegetable that YOU think is good for you here Anyway why should wheat not be good? This is what I mean by fanatism.... you are working with exclusion here (okay if you are allergic to it then it can be bad). If you read about what I wrote you will see that I am an advocate of moderation.

If you are not sure about what a plant feels, a good idea would be to look at what Shamans do in places like South America. They will communicate with the plant directly to find out "which" plants to eat for "what" purposes. I haven't yet checked, but I am betting they are communicating with the lower density soul

The shamans I know here eat meat too...and they communicate with it and are thankful. (again referring to the Qu'o quote)
Again I think it is about intention and being grateful to what you eat... but then that is my idea. Of course you are free to consider some foods good and some evil. We have free will after all.
Edit: Here is what Ra says, considering meat... if I understand correctly he is in favor of occasionally eating it.
http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?sea...&ss=1&sc=1

[Aaron]

I found it to be provably, demonstrably, and tangibly incorrect.

Yes, that quote that you point out was the one point that kinda made me go "Huh?". Although I certainly didn't/don't base my dietary decisions off of any channeled material, I also didn't listen closely to that spot of disharmony (non-resonance? lol) in the channeling. I agree with what you say that that portion could possibly be distorted due to bias, following the understanding that strong bias produces distortion, as Pablísimo pointed out in his post.

Thank you for those verses, Pickle. As for manna, check this out: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

In the link to the LOO that Meerie posted, Ra says "We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material."

That just made me realize that vegetables and fruits still have living energy within them! Whereas meat, while the body can still get by on it, is "non-living physical material". I think this might have been said in a couple of different ways by others earlier in this thread. To me, that seems like a very important point.

I think the only thing we can agree on at this point is that, as Pablísimo said in a much earlier post, it's a choice for every individual to make. We each choose what energies of motion we want in this life dance, what actors we want in the play.

[BrownEye]

I find that the only meat eaters that don't have health problems arise at some point are the Inuit.

18.4 is not much different than what Edgar Cayce has described, as being the easiest source available. Edgar Cayce also brings up the point that a vegetarian diet is Best. Just like many many teachers, they will say a Small amount of meat is ok, not best.

This says straight up, Best

corrected best by ingestion of the foodstuffs of your grains and your vegetables

This gives you a clue as to why meat is brought up

However, this is extremely unimportant when regarded as an aid with equality to other aids such as attitude which this instrument has in abundance

This basically says she will eat what she wants regardless of advice. As mentioned, the Inuit stay healthy on a meat diet by eating only raw, fresh meat. Which is impossible for the normal western human to get used to. Hence, meat is bad. Mr Atkins is a perfect example of proof for you. While promoting his health benefits of meat, he died from it. If he would have ate all his meat raw and fresh, he may still be alive. Of course, in the end there is also the strong possibility of judgement, and with a lack of empathy and compassion, the possibility of being judged without empathy or compassion would be alarming. I do think we create our own hell. I will choose the lessor evil, and acquire life from the least sentient source.

[Monica]

Yes @ndy I agree about pulling the leaves out of plants… there are scientists who have proven that plants can feel pain too.

Respectfully, Meerie, scientists haven't 'proven' that plants can feel pain. They have only proven that there is some sort of reaction, when plants are approached with the intention to kill or harm them.

That reaction is subject to interpretation. There is also a vast difference between a person destroying a plant for research purposes, and a person harvesting a plant from his garden.

The question always goes back to: Is a plant sentient? Does it have individual consciousness? We know that plants have group consciousness, and that some 'grandfather' trees can develop sentience, but is a lettuce plant sentient? What happens when you tear off a cutting from a plant and plant it, and it turns into a new plant? Is the same soul, split into 2? Or is it a different soul?

A friend once gave me scraps from plants he had transplanted, pruned, etc. He was going to throw away all those scraps, but I saved them and gave them to another friend who had a green thumb. She took tiny little bits of roots, very small cuttings, and nurtured them, and they turned into huge, thriving plants!

Did those plants have the same soul as the original plants from whence we got the cuttings? If so, then a single ivy plant, if it has an individual soul, could have its soul spread out over dozens of other bodies.

Think about it. Anyone who has ever grown an ivy knows that you can take multiple cuttings and start new plants. So, if it's an individual soul, then that would mean 1 soul is spread out over multiple bodies.

Have we ever gotten any indication from Ra (or anyone else) that this happens?

And yet that is the only explanation, if you think plants are sentient.

A more plausible explanation, imo, is that plants, being early 2D, don't yet have sentience. Ra tells us that cats and dogs have their sentience drawn out by interacting with humans. I've had the same cat reincarnate several times into our family, so it doesn't appear that the process happens quickly, but over multiple lifetimes. Can a lettuce plant have enough 'drawing out' to become individually sentient?

I don't think so. I think they have group souls, which means, their life continues, even after portions of their physical manifestations are harvested. Harvesting a single lettuce plant does not affect the lettuce oversoul's incarnation, because its incarnation is spread out over multiple 'bodies.'

Right now, I have some lettuce plants growing in my garden. They were planted a few weeks ago, and I was dismayed one morning to find all their leaves cut off. I found the culprit - a very fat caterpillar!

I thought those lettuce plants were dead. ALL their leaves were gone!

And yet, much to my surprise, they are now growing new leaves!

Honestly, don’t you think that the wheat feels pain when it gets run over and plucked out by the harvester?

As an individual, no. As a group soul, yes, if the harvester has no appreciation for it. I think the group soul of all wheat, collectively, is sad about the disrespectful, chemical farming methods, and appreciative when small farms treat their crops with respect.

Don’t you think the apple would rather stay on the tree, instead of being plucked and munched by you?

Not at all. The apple will fall from the tree and rot anyway, its lifeforce going back into the Earth. It is at the end of its lifecycle.

Are you now suggesting that, not only the tree has an individual sentience, but each apple on the tree is an individual soul who can think and feel pain?

Plants are living beings and as such feel pain. Just you don’t see blood being shed therefore you think it does not matter.

Respectfully, it seems illogical that an entity who has sentience and can feel pain, would choose to incarnate into a body that doesn't allow it to escape from predators.

Personally I think as long as we are here on this planet and need to eat in order to survive, we will always tread on some beings toes.

That's true. We can't escape unintentionally killing the occasional bug. But how is that a justification for knowingly causing the suffering of creatures we KNOW feel pain?

It is debatable as to whether plants feel pain. But we KNOW animals feel pain! We KNOW animals will try to escape, and cry out in distress. It doesn't seem logical to me, to justify the suffering and killing of animals who are obviously suffer, just because plants MIGHT suffer.

I am just offering a different view here. Actually I tried to go vegetarian (hear hear!) but I just found I could not exclude things from my diet categorically.

Would you be interested in sharing why not? I am curious as to why some people seem to have such a difficult time giving up meat.

I am wondering if it's because they try to just 'exclude' it instead of replacing it with delicious, nourishing vegetarian alternatives. I've known vegetarians who would go to McDonald's and order hamburgers, with everything on it, except the meat!! Yeah, no kidding! This was before you could find veggie burgers. But now we have lots of varieties of veggie burgers, which are delicious, nourishing and satisfying, as well as lots of other delicious foods to choose from. We're not deprived!

Personally I see many fruit and veggie people here at the local organic grocery store who look emaciated, prematurely aged and have thinning hair (yes even the women sometimes)… I just wonder if their lifestyle is so healthy how come they look so bad?

Well, how do you know they're vegetarians? Lots of animal-eaters also shop for organic fruits and veggies, and LOTS of animal-eaters look sick and have thinning hair.

I got a chuckle out of that last comment, since I've been a vegetarian for 27 years, and am not thin, much less emaciated! Nor do I know any vegetarians who are emaciated! Most look vibrantly healthy! Although there are always exceptions of course. And we can't possibly know their entire situation. Many people become vegetarians because they already had illnesses. So if they look sick, it's more likely they were already sick, and are now on the path to health. I've never met anyone who was very healthy and then got sick from being a vegetarian. That's not to say it might not occasionally happen, but I would guess it was because they just 'gave up' meat but didn't replace it with healthy foods.

Meerie, I'd like to introduce you to some of my vegetarian 'sickly' friends:

http://www.markusrothkranz.com/

[BrownEye]

Thank you for those verses, Pickle. As for manna, check this out: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

Manna is actually psychotropic mushrooms. I am always looking for the rare individual that knows this. There is relatively unknown information that I would love to find someone to discuss with, which I can't seem to find anyone that knows more than the mainstream level of thought.

That just made me realize that vegetables and fruits still have living energy within them! Whereas meat, while the body can still get by on it, is "non-living physical material". I think this might have been said in a couple of different ways by others earlier in this thread. To me, that seems like a very important point.

I don't really see how most do not understand this. I have always known, but didn't care. Until my health went away that is. Look into Kirlian imagery and you might find some beautiful pics of life emanating from raw foods. That life is gone once the same food is cooked.

[Monica]

As for above comment, anyone that knows anything about agriculture would know it is a completely false statement. Considering I live in the middle of hundreds of miles of cornfields, that could easily grow a certain type of expensive superfood, it is easily disproved. All this corn for a few cows.

Exactly!

The common arguement against abstaining from meat is B12 deficiency. My father inlaw fell over paralyzed in his front yard one day, until his wife found him. Turns out he had a B12 deficiency, AFTER being a high intake beef eater his whole life. Science does not have all the answers on B12 yet. There are other sources than just killing something for it.

Very true! B12 deficiency is common among those who eat animals, especially the elderly. But even among young people too. I have a friend who was getting B12 shots from her doctor and she eats a lot of meat!

Another thought, people who run into the awakening Kundalini issue unexpectedly, are advised to eat meat to stop it or block it. Basically makes you heavier, slower, more solid,.......and continueing that pattern has death at the end.

Exactly! It is the pattern of slowing down, dying...because it has no lifeforce. The lifeforce of the animal is long gone. As Edgar Cayce said, like begets like. How can something that is dead promote life?

I always wondered about psychics who eat animals 'to stay grounded.' Evidently it works. But there are lots of other ways to stay grounded.

And, most of us are trying to get lighter, not heavier.

Ra even advised Carla against meat from what I remember.

No, but I won't try to paraphrase Ra. I'll post the actual quotes later today.

My mother has Ra and is wheelchair bound, crippled. She has gone mostly vegetarian, has no need of pain meds now, has more range of movement, and says she feels "cleaner".

When I first read that, I though, how can your mom have Ra? Then I realized, you meant Rheumatoid Arthritis. I'm so glad to hear she is doing better!

Yes, stories like that are very common, with many various illnesses.

This worked great for me until about 33. That was the limit that my DNA replication could overcome the damage I was actively pursuing. One persons DNA is different than anothers. There are a few people that can go their whole life and still have their DNA keep up. Most can't.

Can you elaborate about the DNA? Are you referring to signs of aging?

You can look around and find many people in sports that are only successful because of their diet. One that hits home for me is watching an olympic dive (spinning flips and all) and surprise as the guy got out of the water. 84 years old with that ability and claims it was from a lifelong preference of vegetarian lifestyle.

Oh yes! And now there is a new wave of raw vegan athletes! Totally destroying the myth of the 'sickly' vegetarian!

One can only wonder about cow and horses, who eat only plants. Look at how strong they are! And gorillas, who are vegetarian except for some bugs still clinging to the plants. Our bodies are the most like gorillas.

I basically decided I wanted to live longer, without disability. I am finding others in the area that have dropped meat and lost pain as a result. Very surprising to find anyone like that where I am.

That's awesome! Are you saying it's uncommon to find vegetarians in your area? Then it's all more impressive that you did that, on your own without the support of others.

An apple is going to fall off and seed. It makes no difference to the tree if you remove it. For all you know it could be the equivalent of a human orgasm, expelling seed.

Wow, now there's an intriguing thought!

[BrownEye]

I am just offering a different view here. Actually I tried to go vegetarian (hear hear!) but I just found I could not exclude things from my diet categorically.

That is where dicipline, or lack thereof, come into play. Dicipline is a difficult thing. That would be why there are few masters in the world.

I got a chuckle out of that last comment, since I've been a vegetarian for 27 years, and am not thin, much less emaciated! Nor do I know any vegetarians who are emaciated! Most look vibrantly healthy! Although there are always exceptions of course.

My wife has been vegetarian for over 30 years. Just in the last 4 years she went raw vegan. Because she is a white skinned redhead she always burned within minutes in bright sun. What we find is that she no longer burns after the diet upgrade. After some searching online we found that a LOT of those that went raw have noticed the same phenomenon. My family no longer burn, even at high noon hikes.

http://topnews.co.uk/25273-no-doubt-vege...egetarians

http://www.bolohealth.com/news/2862-eat-...owing-skin

One other thing for thought, those with inner demons will tend to defend them. That has a lot to do with defending a personal diet that is enjoyable, but unhealthy. People will fight to defend their addictions, habits, obsssessions. I had to study this in order to overcome my own.

[Monica]

Manna is actually psychotropic mushrooms. I am always looking for the rare individual that knows this. There is relatively unknown information that I would love to find someone to discuss with, which I can't seem to find anyone that knows more than the mainstream level of thought.

{raises hand}

My husband found a website or book about that awhile back, and shared it with me, about the Manna being mushrooms. Interesting idea.

I don't really see how most do not understand this. I have always known, but didn't care. Until my health went away that is. Look into Kirlian imagery and you might find some beautiful pics of life emanating from raw foods. That life is gone once the same food is cooked.

It seems the vast majority of people who switch to a lighter diet, do so because of health problems. Although, many do after seeing videos of animal torture that happens daily on factory farms.

I initially got off junk foods and other vices, because of health problems. But the going vegetarian happened for me as a result of reading The Essene Gospel of Peace which I found profound.

[Aaron]

Manna is actually psychotropic mushrooms. I am always looking for the rare individual that knows this. There is relatively unknown information that I would love to find someone to discuss with, which I can't seem to find anyone that knows more than the mainstream level of thought.

Lmao! That's hilarious!! I was actually going to suggest that they may have stumbled upon some psychoactive plant, or more likely, some peyote cacti out in the desert, and attributed the divine effects of ingestion to the food being "sent from god". But I didn't because I thought of it as just an amusing possibility, a footnote.

I don't really see how most do not understand this. I have always known, but didn't care. Until my health went away that is. Look into Kirlian imagery and you might find some beautiful pics of life emanating from raw foods. That life is gone once the same food is cooked.

Like a lot of other things, I did "know" it, but I didn't consciously realize it, because I hadn't yet paid enough attention to that part of my intuition. Reading the Ra material, for me, leads to a lot of those kinds of realizations.

According to wikipedia, Kirlian photography involves actually applying a charge to the object you're photographing. So I don't see how it could accurately capture the invisible energies. However, I do believe it can represent them, and provide some beautiful visualizations.

[Monica]

My wife has been vegetarian for over 30 years. Just in the last 4 years she went raw vegan. Because she is a white skinned redhead she always burned within minutes in bright sun. What we find is that she no longer burns after the diet upgrade. After some searching online we found that a LOT of those that went raw have noticed the same phenomenon. My family no longer burn, even at high noon hikes.

Oh WOW!!! That is so awesome! And makes perfect sense! The ability to withstand the Sun is imparted to us by the living plants!

Oh, I find this very exciting! As a blonde, that would be amazing for me!

Your wife is just ahead of me. Veg for 27 years, and just now going raw vegan. I love it!

Hey, here's a thought: What does that mean, if we no longer burn in the Sun? What is the Sun, but a 5D SMC? I find this very significant.

One other thing for thought, those with inner demons will tend to defend them. That has a lot to do with defending a personal diet that is enjoyable, but unhealthy. People will fight to defend their addictions, habits, obsssessions. I had to study this in order to overcome my own.

I've been gravitating towards raw vegan for the last few months, and making good progress. I'm getting to the point that I now prefer raw vegan food, and losing my taste for cooked foods. It's a transitional process for me, whereas when I went vegetarian, I did it overnight.

A stumbling block for me has been cheese. I haven't eaten any junk food in almost 3 decades, but cheese was that 'not so bad' food which became a comfort food for me in times of stress. Which is why I'm not skinny!

It's on its way out, though. I now feel soooooo much better when I don't eat cheese, that it's getting easier to resist it. It's becoming a matter of choice, rather than willpower. I agree that discipline is needed at the beginning, but once you get over that hump and actually experience the light, healthier, more energetic state of being, it becomes much easier, because we all want to feel more energy.

Meat and sugary junk foods no longer register as food to me. They might as well be rocks or cardboard.

[BrownEye]

Abstract
Dietary restriction is the only experimental manipulation known to extend lifespan and retard aging in mammals. Therefore, it is a powerful tool for identifying cellular processes that are involved in aging and senescence. Recently, several laboratories have begun to examine the effects of dietary restriction on the integrity of the genome and the ability of cells to repair DNA.

If the rate of DNA damage exceeds the capacity of the cell to repair it, the accumulation of errors can overwhelm the cell and result in early senescence, apoptosis or cancer.

Wow, now there's an intriguing thought!

In my opinion, it is most beneficial for us to learn how to think outside of the "box" society creates for us. I have always been a "loner", isolating myself, not conforming to group think. Now I understand that I am not part of this "organism" that is a result of civilization. I do think that quite possibly the "organism" is what awaits the harvest. Doing my own querying it seems that my family will be carrying on the flame and resuming life on this planet. Considering how attached we are to nature, it makes sense.

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My husband found a website or book about that awhile back, and shared it with me, about the Manna being mushrooms. Interesting idea.

Quite simply, other religions know that Manna in OUR Bible is a mushroom. What was debatable is what kind of mushroom. If you just combine the plants of the "Gods" from around the world, they all happen to be a psychotropic. Until you get to western thought that is. With all the descriptions in the Bible compiled together it becomes obvious.

Another thought, mushrooms activate the DMT drip from our Pineal Gland.

Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

How obvious does it need to be?

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I've been gravitating towards raw vegan for the last few months, and making good progress. I'm getting to the point that I now prefer raw vegan food, and losing my taste for cooked foods. It's a transitional process for me, whereas when I went vegetarian, I did it overnight.

I highly recommend any book by Gabriel Cousens, my favorite being Spiritual Nutrition.

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Wheat was just an example, you can insert any kind of vegetable that YOU think is good for you here Anyway why should wheat not be good?

For one, practically all wheat is GMO, which is not only considered a foreign object to your body, it has almost no life energy in it (while alive).

Considering that we are a function of energy....

Monica, I came across this while looking for a kinesiology test with Chia. Since it doubled my strength just to hold it, I had to find info. This is stored on a webserver, with no idea who created it.

https://www.securedcontent.net/conscious...mpared.pdf

[Monica]

Doing my own querying it seems that my family will be carrying on the flame and resuming life on this planet. Considering how attached we are to nature, it makes sense.

Q'uo has stated that many of us will remain on the planet, to help clean up the mess and facilitate planetary healing. This idea is supported by the growing movement towards vegetarianism and even raw vegan. I'm really getting into permaculture and living off wild weeds, though I consider that an eventual goal. For now, I am enjoying gourmet raw vegan dishes!

Check this out:

Living Raw Food: Get the Glow with More Recipes from Pure Food and Wine Sarma Melngailis

...as an example of just how much raw vegan cuisine has evolved! This particular recipe book is very gourmet. There are many others that are simpler and more practical, yet still delicious. I am getting quite a collection now!

I highly recommend any book by Gabriel Cousens, my favorite being Spiritual Nutrition.

Yes, I have that and many others. The first book I read on the raw vegan lifestyle was the classic, Survival into the 21st Century, which led me to The Essene Gospel of Peace.

Survival is very hardcore and not without flaws. I don't recommend it for those just starting out on the vegetarian liveit. But Viktoras did a great job of introducing the idea of changing to a more high-vibration diet and evolving WITH the planet!

At that time, circa 1982, the only raw vegan recipe books were awful. Soak nuts and seeds, grind them up, add some Bragg's liquid aminos, and serve with sprouts. Bleh!!

Now, there are dozens, maybe even hundreds, of wonderful raw vegan recipe books, that feature foods that are actually quite delicious! And of course, vegetarian cuisine in general has evolved so much that the argument of 'what will I eat?' falls flat.

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Monica, I came across this while looking for a kinesiology test with Chia. Since it doubled my strength just to hold it, I had to find info. This is stored on a webserver, with no idea who created it.

Great info, thanks! I'm beginning to use chia seeds a lot, and am starting to explore hemp seed as well. My first experience with hemp was the nut butter I bought at the health food store several years ago, which, at the time, tasted awful to me. I much prefer the raw seeds to use in smoothies, dehydrated breads, etc. It might also be that my taste buds are changing.

That's very interesting about the hemp seeds being rich in enzymes. I was wondering about that, since some nuts have to be soaked first, to render them highly digestible.

[Meerie]

I am just offering a different view here. Actually I tried to go vegetarian (hear hear!) but I just found I could not exclude things from my diet categorically.

That is where dicipline, or lack thereof, come into play. Dicipline is a difficult thing. That would be why there are few masters in the world.

Well if that helps you can call me undisciplined LOL. And I certainly do not claim mastery here. For me it is more about enjoying the occasional bit of meat. Why should I give up on something I enjoy. You cannot understand this as for you the guilt factor plays into it. So be it. As for obsessions I ask, who is more obsessed, someone who categorically excludes many things from their diet, because they think them "bad" or someone who does not exclude and goes after what their stomach tells them is good for them?
No thing is good or bad per se, it is just your thinking that makes it so.

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I am just offering a different view here. Actually I tried to go vegetarian (hear hear!) but I just found I could not exclude things from my diet categorically.

Would you be interested in sharing why not? I am curious as to why some people seem to have such a difficult time giving up meat..

As I already mentioned I just enjoy eating it. And it is not that I eat it constantly.... yesterday for example I was completely meat-free the whole day. I had a nice pasta with tomato sauce and salad for lunch (although your friend Pickle will probably insist that wheat is baaaad for you All I can say is I enjoyed it and it tasted deliciously.
That is right, I cannot know for sure that all these people are actually 100% vegan / vegetarian. They just fit nicely in the overall impression I have of vegans / vegetarians LOL.
It is nice to hear you are not emaciated or sickly looking

[Meerie]

Concerning whether plants can feel pain or not, you might be interested in googling Cleve Backster. An interesting book is also "the secret life of plants" by Tompkins.
I am sure they can and in my view these peoples findings back my idea. But I am sure you will dismiss it as it would leave you with virtually nothing to eat

[@ndy]

I don't have a problem with raw food at all, and I'm sure it is very healthy.

I just well, I believe in sourcing and growing products locally. Seasonal local products are in tune with us. When your living somewhere like the north of England or Scotland, the food that is naturally around winter time are root veg, barley oats and such.
The weather is cold and there are weeks when you see no sunlight - the sunlight you do get isn't strong enough for your skin to make Vit D.

I could be wrong, but for a healthy raw food diet at this time of year are you not going to have to really on an awful lot of imported items?
In the summer I ear hardly anything, I don't feel I need to I have energy in bounds and feel healthy and warm all the time.
In the winter then I crave foods like porridge and warm thick soups.
Didn't different diets evolve due to people moving and adapting to the environment they found them selves in?

I try to have a diet in tune with the local environment and time of year - we grow food all year round and forage. Diets including meat were the norm of people in colder areas due to sheep/goats grazing on land not favourable for crops ect…. High protein veg items aren’t so easily grown in colder areas.
Hill farming/fishing in these places have been how people evolved and were able to live there.

[Ali Quadir]

This depends of course on the reason why people don't eat meat.

I personally don't eat it primarily because I don't like the waste of resources that it implies.. A single meat only meal if replaced by vegetarian food using the same amount of raw resources could feed 10 people. If everyone in this world decides to eat according to our western spoiled kid standards, half the world would starve to death. If everyone was a vegetarian we could feed the world many times over.

I also don't like to be party to the abuse of animals in the slaughterhouses. But I would have no problem killing an animal with my own bare hands and eating it when push comes to shove. I'm known to be flexible as a vegetarian. Sometimes when you go abroad there's just no alternative. But there's no doubt in my mind that vastly reducing our meat intake as humans is the only way to go if we want to equalize the levels of wealth across the world. Which IS going to happen. Might as well give a good example.

I know 3 other vegetarians up close in life. All three are on a diet, or should be I'm borderline but that's because I've got heavy bones I am mindful of not eating too much. I don't know where that emaciated idea came from. But that has little to do with being a vegetarian. In fact it's proven again and again that a vegetarian diet is much more healthy to the average western person. Precisely because it avoids all those diseases we get because we eat unnatural diets. Yes, some meat is natural, but we're talking snails insects and the occasional leftovers from a carnivore's lunch. We're not talking about the amounts most people eat today.

[Meerie]

We have a term for fat vegetarians here... we call them "pudding vegetarians" LOL. In fact the fattest guy on German television claims he is a vegetarian.

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I don't have a problem with raw food at all, and I'm sure it is very healthy.

I know many people have a problem digesting raw food. Cooked food is easier to digest. Of course you lose ingredients thru cooking but in some cases cooking actually improves the food.

I just well, I believe in sourcing and growing products locally. Seasonal local products are in tune with us.

You are right. Bananas from South America, Kiwi from New Zealand just think of the miles all this food has travelled. Our bodies are better adjusted to local foods anyway.

[@ndy]

I agree with you Ali. Hubby is veggie and I eat fish meat perhaps twice a month.
I eat fish as I have dyslexia, ADHD and am prone to itchy irritable skin... when I realised all of these were tied to lack of epa/dha or what ever I started to supplement and the change was to good to stop.

I just think of the oil involved in food production. Shipping and fertilizer.
Growing food locally helps the local economy reduces oil ect.
In the UK if enough people in the area ask for allotment space the local council has to provide it - we also have land share and conservation charity’s offering land for food to be grown.

While we are primarily veggie.... I do wonder at all the place the beans and pulses nuts seeds ect are shipped from.
I guess I'm so used to the idea of growing your own seasonal veg and keeping a few hens it was how I was brought up, my Dad was a fisherman.
I like the idea of taking reasonability for your own food and environment, composting our waste using every scrap and working with nature begging for manure

I guess I have a problem with the way food relies so heavily on oil.

[Monica]

I just well, I believe in sourcing and growing products locally. Seasonal local products are in tune with us. When your living somewhere like the north of England or Scotland, the food that is naturally around winter time are root veg, barley oats and such.

Agreed! I just started buying produce from a local farmers' market. I agree that eating locally is generally healthier.

The weather is cold and there are weeks when you see no sunlight - the sunlight you do get isn't strong enough for your skin to make Vit D.

Mushrooms are an excellent source of vitamin D. They absorb vitamin D, even after being harvested.

Vegetarians in cold, dreary climates can easily take a vitamin D supplement, rather than relying on fish oil. Actually, most people are vitamin D deficient, whether vegetarian or not. We have supplements readily available and very inexpensive.

I could be wrong, but for a healthy raw food diet at this time of year are you not going to have to really on an awful lot of imported items?
In the summer I ear hardly anything, I don't feel I need to I have energy in bounds and feel healthy and warm all the time.
In the winter then I crave foods like porridge and warm thick soups.
Didn't different diets evolve due to people moving and adapting to the environment they found them selves in?

Unquestionably, it's easier to go raw in areas where fruit is abundant. Hence, the growing movement in the raw vegan community to move to tropical islands!

Although I think it's a wonderful option for those with the freedom to do that, it's not an option for my family.

It's natural to want warmer foods in winter. This derailed me in the past. But now, I have learned that there are all sorts of warm options, even on a raw vegan liveit! Lovely raw soups, pastas and breads can be warmed, though not hot, and still retain their digestive enzymes (and hence, their 'raw' status).

Fats are especially important during the winter, whereas fruits tend to be more appropriate for summer. Notice how nuts are harvested in the autumn! While very little fruit is available. Nuts store well and provide the 'warming' oils necessary.

From what I understand, it's not so much the temperature that makes a food 'warming' but the fat content. That's why nuts, seeds, and avocados are very important during the winter, while high-water fruits tend to be more 'cooling' and thus more appropriate for summer. I wouldn't recommend living on imported tropical fruits if you live in a cold climate.

I try to have a diet in tune with the local environment and time of year - we grow food all year round and forage.

Great! I'm getting into that too.

Diets including meat were the norm of people in colder areas due to sheep/goats grazing on land not favourable for crops ect…. High protein veg items aren’t so easily grown in colder areas.
Hill farming/fishing in these places have been how people evolved and were able to live there.

Very true. Animals were necessary at that time, undoubtedly. But that's no longer the case. We now have a much greater understanding of the needs of the human body, and we now have many more options available that don't involve cruelty to animals who unmistakably feel pain.

I agree with your view that it's best to eat locally and in season. That's why I love The Essene Gospel of Peace so much; Jesus said to eat what Mother Earth puts on her table.

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We have a term for fat vegetarians here... we call them "pudding vegetarians" LOL. In fact the fattest guy on German television claims he is a vegetarian.

So much for the "vegetarians are all emaciated" myth!

I know many people have a problem digesting raw food. Cooked food is easier to digest.

What many people think is difficulty digesting raw food, may actually be from lack of proper chewing. Raw food requires more chewing. The 'difficulty digesting' is easily remedied. Raw food has digestive enzymes, whereas cooking destroys those enzymes. But the food has to be chewed.

So it's not that cooked food is easier to digest. It just doesn't have as much food value to begin with, as the vitamins have been largely lost in the cooking process, so it just sort of slides on down the throat and thru the body.

Raw food, in contrast, requires a bit of work, but the payoff is a vibrant nutritional profile that is unlocked in the chewing process.

A way to cheat is to get a high powered blender (such as a VitaMix) and/or juicer, which are ways to get concentrated nutrients from raw foods.

Another reason some people think they can't digest raw foods is that they eat fruit after a heavy meal. Fruit digests much more easily and quickly than protein foods, so if they eat, say, an apple after eating a hamburger, the apple will just sit on top of the meat and ferment.

The meat takes a very long to get thru the digestive tract, since we lack the digestive tract carnivores have. End result is gas, bloating, etc. and the fruit gets blamed for it.

Eating fruit on an empty stomach solves that problem.

[BrownEye]

Why should I give up on something I enjoy. You cannot understand this as for you the guilt factor plays into it. So be it. As for obsessions I ask, who is more obsessed, someone who categorically excludes many things from their diet, because they think them "bad" or someone who does not exclude and goes after what their stomach tells them is good for them?
No thing is good or bad per se, it is just your thinking that makes it so

I love the taste of meat. If I eat meat or eggs, it stops my digestive process for a week. The logic of regular people say that I need to get used to eating meat again. My own logic says I can go 10 years without eating a banana and it wont screw up my digestive tract with the first banana. If it was so good for me, why do I need to train my internal organs to deal with it?

First came the digestive problems, secondly the understanding that it is bad. Not the other way around. Then dicipline comes in, forcing my brain to follow logic instead of "taste". 10 years ago "taste" for me was mostly chemical based. When I was younger I had no idea why I would see a huge building with the name Taco Time Laboratory. Now I have learned enough to know that they spend a lot of time concocting different mixtures of chemicals to create that great "taste" that people are addicted to. Tricking the brain, for profit.

If you look up obssession, it mostly matches someone that does something compulsively, without rational thought behind it. Such as eating specifically for taste, rather than awareness.

The actual deciding factor for my rationality is when I compared our digestive organs to other animals. We are most like an ape, but have the strength of a baby. An ape or gorilla can toss over a car. Why are we so weak compared? They eat grass and leaves. Look at all the strongest land animals in the world and they eat grass. Our digestive tract is longer, like a plant eater, designed to absorb nutrients over a longer period. A meat eater has a short digestive tract, for digesting RAW meat over a short period. Once you cook it, you need 10 times as long to digest it. If you could see what the digestive system does, you would understand why so many have colon problems.

I still love the smell of cooking beef. Insects smell the same when cooked, as do human flesh, if you have ever really burned yourself bigtime

No thing is good or bad per se, it is just your thinking that makes it so.

Logically that would eliminate the possibility of death from any type of injestion, poison or whatnot.

Concerning whether plants can feel pain or not, you might be interested in googling Cleve Backster. An interesting book is also "the secret life of plants" by Tompkins.
I am sure they can and in my view these peoples findings back my idea. But I am sure you will dismiss it as it would leave you with virtually nothing to eat

I have researched. It seems more plausible that it is the intent to harm, more so than the damage itself. The signals coming from a plant stop as soon as the intent has left the room. What I noticed is that the plant does not continue to put out a signal, which would be constant if it was in pain.

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Science also knows that if over 50% of your food is cooked your body bumps up white blood cell production. Which says you have internal processes looking to defend against a foreign invader. Hopefully the body figures out what that invader is and doesn't cause an autoimmune response.

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That's why I love The Essene Gospel of Peace so much; Jesus said to eat what Mother Earth puts on her table.

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That is why I am moving to the food, instead of moving the food to me. When the future catastrophes begin to pop up around the world, I really don't want to rely on infrastructure or shipping to stay comfortable. Where I am right now, my family could die if the infrastructure went down. We lose a couple citizens every year from the wind chill during winter. I wouldn't care if I was single, but I have children I need to watch out for.

You know, when I was a child, I always wondered why those starving groups of humans never moved to where the food is?

[Meerie]

First came the digestive problems, secondly the understanding that it is bad.

If you have such problems with it I completely understand that you do not eat it any longer. I digest meat well and I feel well after eating it. Infact I had a problem with salads for a while, the raw stuff just was not working well with me. I stopped eating it for a while. it is okay now.

If you look up obssession, it mostly matches someone that does something compulsively, without rational thought behind it. Such as eating specifically for taste, rather than awareness.

from the online etymology dictionary "obsession":
1510s, "action of besieging," from L. obsessionem, noun of action from obsidere (see obsess). Later, "hostile action of an evil spirit" (like possession but without the spirit actually inhabiting the body). Transferred sense of "action of anything which engrosses the mind" is from 1670s. Psychological sense is from 1901.

of course you are free to interpret it any way you choose.

[Monica]

from the online etymology dictionary "obsession":

Meerie, I'm curious why you're choosing the term obsession. It seems to have a rather negative context.

Are you saying that vegetarians are obsessive?

If a person truly believes they are working for a good cause, then their actions might seem obsessive to those who don't identify with that cause. Is that a bad thing?

All of us, who are working to lighten the vibration on this planet, might seem obsessive to those who don't share our intentions.

For some of us, exposing the cruelties imposed on millions of our 2D brethren, on a daily basis, in part of that mission to raise the vibration.

Some of us are working on environmental issues...some are feeding the homeless...are not all of these noble causes?

Why, then, is the cause of championing animals viewed as fanatical, or obsessive? While championing the homeless and the hungry human is viewed as noble? Why is this?

I realize that not everyone shares in a resonance with this cause, but I invite you to try viewing this from the perspective of one who feels compassion for those who cannot speak for themselves, for those who are oppressed.

Perhaps then, vegetarians might be viewed as fellow Lightworkers, working together to raise the vibration of the planet in the way they resonate with, rather than just obsessive fanatics.

[Meerie]

Pickle came up with it in post 191... talking about habits and obsessions... and then I responded.

[BrownEye]

from the online etymology dictionary "obsession":
1510s, "action of besieging," from L. obsessionem, noun of action from obsidere (see obsess). Later, "hostile action of an evil spirit" (like possession but without the spirit actually inhabiting the body). Transferred sense of "action of anything which engrosses the mind" is from 1670s. Psychological sense is from 1901.

of course you are free to interpret it any way you choose.

That is pretty much how I understood it without looking it up. I have experience with both obssession and possession and have a very good understanding of both.

In his pediatrics textbook, Dr. Emmet L. Holt of New York City says that if two dogs were put on a leash and one fed water and the other beef tea, the dog getting the water would live longer, because beef tea does not contain any nourishment if the fat is skimmed off, but does contain urinary wastes, which poison the dog.

An animal's cellular life continues after death. The cells continue to produce waste materials which are trapped in the blood and decaying tissues. The nitrogenous extracts which are trapped in the animal's muscles are partially responsible for the flavor of the cooked meat

The late Dr. John Harvey Kellogg said, when he sat down to his vegetarian meal, "It is nice to eat a meal and not have to worry about what your food may have died from."

I should add a little info that does not seem to be mainstream. If you have heard stories of your parents eating raw hamburger without ever getting sick, while now you can die if it does not get cooked enough, there is a cause behind that. The main cause is that cows no longer eat grass before they get to your plate. The corn and grain they eat to fatten them up creates that killer bacteria in their gut. Of course you also get the normal dose of pesticides, hormones and antibiotics in the flesh, but the killer is that they are fed unnaturally. You are safest with a fully natural range grass fed cow and not cooking the flesh much.

On the news tonight is a filled Church dinner of turkey getting everyone sick. So they tell you to wash your hands and all sorts of things as if the whole blame for the bugs is on the diners. I guess they have to accept blame if they ate it?

[Meerie]

[In his pediatrics textbook, Dr. Emmet L. Holt of New York City says that if two dogs were put on a leash and one fed water and the other beef tea, the dog getting the water would live longer, because beef tea does not contain any nourishment if the fat is skimmed off, but does contain urinary wastes, which poison the dog.

Only water, only beef tea? nothing else? I guess they would both die pretty soon
btw I heard that dogs can be fed vegetarian only. Monica have you tried that with your dogs?

[BrownEye]

By the way I heard that dogs can be fed vegetarian only. Monica have you tried that with your dogs?

People do it, but I dont believe in it. A healthy diet would be raw meat and bones. I see dogs eat grass to cleanse their digestive tract. Although I had a husky that knew exactly when any of our veggies would be ripe. They would be eaten the morning before being picked. But I kind of doubt she would have eaten them if she didn't see "our" interest first.

Only water, only beef tea? nothing else? I guess they would both die pretty soon

There have been many sick sick experiments done in the name of science. I wouldn't put it past those types.