Semantics

[3DMonkey]

Too often, when I am in a teach position, I try to make this "trespass into the realms of learn/teaching".

How do you do this?

Uncomfortable with the role of teacher, I revert the relationship to be of shared learning. In other words, I excuse my opportunity to teach by 'jumping off sides' (trespass into the realms) and place myself on the learner's 'bench.'

Did I make any sense?

One of the more powerful 'STS' acts is a form of conscious manipulation. That's where you can treat others as an extension of yourself. It's a form of using others as learning 'tools' without regard to where they're 'at'. What the manipulator gets out of it is a form of dominance from humiliation of trespass and an understanding of how to improve the effectiveness of that role.

I know what you are saying. It is not what I am trying to convey at this moment.

I know what you are saying, because I can recall moments when I have felt this manipulative controlling power in my hands. I can distinctly remember not liking the 'taste' of it and vowing not to use it.

I suppose I am having difficulty conveying my meaning. Simply, I shy away from the manipulative energy of a teach/learn dynamic.

[native]

You sound like you're simply trying to say that you would rather avoid confrontation, because you value the other's emotional attachment to their point of view, and you don't necessarily like telling someone they may be wrong (which is a compassionate perspective). Maybe?

[3DMonkey]

You sound like you're simply trying to say that you would rather avoid confrontation, because you value the other's emotional attachment to their point of view, and you don't necessarily like telling someone they may be wrong (which is a compassionate perspective). Maybe?

Sort of. Kinda like I don't want to drive you to where you are going. And then, I could point toward a direction, but instead I hop in the back seat along for the ride. Keep in mind, too, that I am speaking in mental imagery- this is what I see happening in my mind.

[βαθμιαίος]

I understand what you're saying, I think, but I'm not sure why you see teaching as manipulative. If you know something and someone else doesn't, what's wrong with teaching them?

Do you have difficulty accepting yourself as an authority?

[native]

I see..you just lack the desire to be totally expressive. Nothing wrong with that..we're all working of different energies. Though if someone asks for your opinion I'd give it to them honestly.

[3DMonkey]

I understand what you're saying, I think, but I'm not sure why you see teaching as manipulative. If you know something and someone else doesn't, what's wrong with teaching them?

Do you have difficulty accepting yourself as an authority?

I do. Other than individuals I have a direct bond with, I do. Not so much in practical affairs, but affairs of emotion and spirit cause me to become detached.

[βαθμιαίος]

Ah, I can relate, if you're talking about trying to teach in matters of emotion and spirit. That's tricky for me, too.

[zenmaster]

I understand what you're saying, I think, but I'm not sure why you see teaching as manipulative. If you know something and someone else doesn't, what's wrong with teaching them?

Do you have difficulty accepting yourself as an authority?

I do. Other than individuals I have a direct bond with, I do. Not so much in practical affairs, but affairs of emotion and spirit cause me to become detached.

That's fear from being vulnerable. Not possible to discuss as teach/learn without 'baring soul' to some extent. In psychotheraphy, Jung concluded that if there was any real change made, both analyst and analysand would be transformed. They both share and learn/teach, teach/learn. A powerful dynamic and one that is easily avoided.

[Tenet Nosce]

We can all mean the exact same thing and say it with completely different descriptions.

Agreed. Somehow I thought we would have figured that out by now.

[Plenum]

Say it again!!!

For the answer to this query we must begin with the
consideration of the serpent, signifying wisdom. This symbol has the value
of the ease of viewing the two faces of the one who is wise. Positive wisdom
adorns the brow indicating indigo-ray work. Negative wisdom, by which we
intend to signify expressions which effectually separate the self from the
other-self, may be symbolized by poison of the fangs. To use that which a
mind/body/spirit complex has gained of wisdom for the uses of separation is
to invite the fatal bite of that wisdom’s darker side.

Signify expressions: indicate emotions into words. Declare the process of making known one's thoughts. Exchange boasts that convey one's opinions publicly.

I think that becoming aware of the TRIVIUM process would be helpful here:

1) grammar
not word grammar, but general grammar. Here one collects the data

2) logic
not mathematical logic, but general logic. Here one sorts the data, reconciles inconsistencies, forms a system

3) rhetoric
not politic rhetoric, but general rhetoric. One then formulates the concepts into a means that one can communicate to others. Right speech.

be transparent in one's process

<grin>

[Shin'Ar]

I want to rant....

One's own perspective and understanding need not fit within the framework definition of a declared textbook to be defined as the same damn thing. In reality, one's enlightenment need not be explained in a centralized way to appease an agreed upon textbook terminology. The explanation one gives for their enlightened view can equal an explanation that sounds entirely different because at the core vibration, they can be the same. 

In fact, when the textbook becomes a centralized method of discounting our innate abilities, this textbook becomes our own box/prison. At that point, one should toss that textbook in the river and try their damnedest to get out of that box. 

We can all mean the exact same thing and say it with completely different descriptions. Allow the discrepancy with acceptance. If we look past the intellect and into the heart of others, we, in turn, seek our heart within. In so doing, we find our essence, our nature, our role, our path, whatever you decide to call it. 

That's what I've been trying to say in a nutshell!

[3DMonkey]

Cool beans

[Sagittarius]

Since wisdom came up in this thread, I thought the following might also be applicable:

Ra: For the answer to this query we must begin with the
consideration of the serpent, signifying wisdom. This symbol has the value
of the ease of viewing the two faces of the one who is wise. Positive wisdom
adorns the brow indicating indigo-ray work. Negative wisdom, by which we
intend to signify expressions which effectually separate the self from the
other-self, may be symbolized by poison of the fangs. To use that which a
mind/body/spirit complex has gained of wisdom for the uses of separation is
to invite the fatal bite of that wisdom’s darker side.

Say it again!!!

For the answer to this query we must begin with the
consideration of the serpent, signifying wisdom. This symbol has the value
of the ease of viewing the two faces of the one who is wise. Positive wisdom
adorns the brow indicating indigo-ray work. Negative wisdom, by which we
intend to signify expressions which effectually separate the self from the
other-self, may be symbolized by poison of the fangs. To use that which a
mind/body/spirit complex has gained of wisdom for the uses of separation is
to invite the fatal bite of that wisdom’s darker side.

Signify expressions: indicate emotions into words. Declare the process of making known one's thoughts. Exchange boasts that convey one's opinions publicly.



(The session goes further to explain the catalyst of an actual spider bite, and that this was a physical manifestation of a fifth density negative's attempt. )

My rant was trying to tell me something methinks. That is, everyone is right and I don't need to tell them otherwise. (Get out the bug spray)

The big thing I have found with the need to express our thoughts is the key is to wait for the right invitation. You can't force it as that would be contradictory to everything we know. As I have found bitterness towards this process is a big hurdle to get over.

Everything is right, everything is perfectly balanced and we will see that when we are ready. We created duality to balance it back into one. Why? That's an answer I'am still remembering.

[Melissa]

Bump for awesome thread.