In regards to eating meat

[BrownEye]

We are all connected.

Not that you would "believe" in that sort of thing...

The circles remind me of something I said the other day.

eye ()
n.
1. An organ of vision or of light sensitivity.
2.
a. Either of a pair of hollow structures located in bony sockets of the skull, functioning together or independently, each having a lens capable of focusing incident light on an internal photosensitive retina from which nerve impulses are sent to the brain; the vertebrate organ of vision.
b. The external, visible portion of this organ together with its associated structures, especially the eyelids, eyelashes, and eyebrows.
c. The pigmented iris of this organ.
3. The faculty of seeing; vision.
4. The ability to make intellectual or aesthetic judgments: has a good eye for understated fashion.
5.
a. A way of regarding something; a point of view:

This radius is similar to a "C" and a "U".


Portions of a complete (whole) circle I suppose.

EYE C U

"I" see you.

Language is all screwy.

[AnthroHeart]

I agree Diana. I tend to have a detached curiosity about things.

[Monica]

Stopping the inhumane meat industry IS that easy.

Is that so? Then why hasn't it been done yet?

That's easy. Look at how even 'aware' people in this community aren't even willing to stop contributing to the inhumane treatment.

It hasn't been done because people aren't willing to do it. And they get defensive and resentful when others (who are willing) ask them to.

[3DMonkey]

Be careful what you ask for. What if you looked around and everyone consciously chose "b", then you'd still need to search within to find that "peace".

As a wanderer, I feel I am here to help. Ultimately, I am in this world but not of it. So, in my more lucid moments I am detached from outcomes. And yet, I do wish for suffering to end for all life.

In Ra terms, that is to wish that 3D wasnt a part of existence.

[Diana]

What prompted you to stop eating meat in the first place?

Arthritis

I get similar feelings from tortilla chips these days

I tried eating organic corn chips a while back. It was like wood chips, it would not digest. It felt like sawdust when I was chewing it. I was sitting there wondering if my perception was different, or if they are just not made the way they used to be.

It has been my experience that the cleaner the body gets, the more it is able to recognize subtle poisons that are lost on a poison-laden body. I use "poison" to make my point, meaning any food that causes imbalance or harm.

Jeesh--I think speaking here is honing my communication skills, as I have to weigh every word. Thank you.

---

Be careful what you ask for. What if you looked around and everyone consciously chose "b", then you'd still need to search within to find that "peace".

As a wanderer, I feel I am here to help. Ultimately, I am in this world but not of it. So, in my more lucid moments I am detached from outcomes. And yet, I do wish for suffering to end for all life.

In Ra terms, that is to wish that 3D wasnt a part of existence.

Then what is Ra doing helping us?

[3DMonkey]

Stopping the inhumane meat industry IS that easy.

Is that so? Then why hasn't it been done yet?

That's easy. Look at how even 'aware' people in this community aren't even willing to stop contributing to the inhumane treatment.

It hasn't been done because people aren't willing to do it. And they get defensive and resentful when others (who are willing) ask them to.

... But you said nobody was asking anybody to do anything. That's what you said.

---

What prompted you to stop eating meat in the first place?

Arthritis

I get similar feelings from tortilla chips these days

I tried eating organic corn chips a while back. It was like wood chips, it would not digest. It felt like sawdust when I was chewing it. I was sitting there wondering if my perception was different, or if they are just not made the way they used to be.

It has been my experience that the cleaner the body gets, the more it is able to recognize subtle poisons that are lost on a poison-laden body. I use "poison" to make my point, meaning any food that causes imbalance or harm.

Jeesh--I think speaking here is honing my communication skills, as I have to weigh every word. Thank you.

---

Be careful what you ask for. What if you looked around and everyone consciously chose "b", then you'd still need to search within to find that "peace".

As a wanderer, I feel I am here to help. Ultimately, I am in this world but not of it. So, in my more lucid moments I am detached from outcomes. And yet, I do wish for suffering to end for all life.

In Ra terms, that is to wish that 3D wasnt a part of existence.

Then what is Ra doing helping us?

(that's what I love about forum communication.)


Ra is helping us by answering a call to reveal to us what we are.

[Tenet Nosce]

Stopping the inhumane meat industry IS that easy.

Is that so? Then why hasn't it been done yet?

Need you ask? Even the group here is conflicted. It seems we can't even agree that to buy the inhumanely raised meat is to contribute to its perpetuation.

The question was framed to draw attention to the fact that it isn't easy. Otherwise, it would be done.

If every meat-eater went to a slaughterhouse and became aware of the process, then the choice would be an educated aware choice. I'm not saying the choice would be a or b, but it would be an aware choice.

Sadly, I think many people are quite aware of the process. They don't care. They eat at McDonald's because it "tastes good", is "cheap and convenient", and above all because it is "American".

Frankly, I tend to be more concerned for the plight of these humans, rather than the cows which they consume. But even then- there is a place being prepared for our unconscious brethren to inhabit while the rest of us get on with our lives.

One of the reasons it hasn't been done yet is unconsciousness.

Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow: And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred. And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Not everybody was meant to awaken in these times.

[BrownEye]

Jeesh--I think speaking here is honing my communication skills, as I have to weigh every word.

LMAO!! Yes! I love watching people expand through connection. Part of growth is to be had with the infighting. I have gained very interesting insight looking at a married couple that are so abusive to each other, as if manifesting hate into physical violence,............and finding that they are both a portion of the same oversoul. Very very eye opening for me.

[AnthroHeart]

I can't remember if I posted this before, always makes me laugh...





If anyone played games a kid, the artistic direction/effects in this film is fantastic :¬)

Thanks Namaste. I never heard of this before, but it looks like my kind of film. Just ordered the DVD off Amazon.

[Tenet Nosce]

It hasn't been done because people aren't willing to do it. And they get defensive and resentful when others (who are willing) ask them to.

Sounds like par for the course to me.

Previously, I suggested reframing the debate in terms of land-based vs. sea-based diets, but the comment appears to have been lost in the fray.

There is an over-reaching principle at play here and that is self-righteousness. On one level there appears to be a noble cause, yet on another level a stubborn unwillingness to admit when the tactics involved in promoting said cause are ineffective.

Many anti-meat-eating folk get just as defensive and resentful when others suggest that they might benefit from a change in their strategy. So... not only do we know what is "right" for everybody, but we also know what is the "right" way to go about bringing that change.

I wonder what kind of programming it is which informs us that when we push for something, and it is not well-received, that the appropriate response is to push harder? And then when pushing harder fails, the appropriate response is to force others to obey our self-righteous demands through the rule of law.

NOTE: Not saying -you- personally do this, just speaking in general terms.

That just all seems like "old world" strategery to me...

[3DMonkey]

The Real Life Horse Whisperer had something to say about that "push back" tendency. Sorry, I can't remember exactly.

[Diana]

Ra is helping us by answering a call to reveal to us what we are.

Okay, semantics. In revealing to us what we are, Ra is increasing awareness, which initiates evolution or change--else why would the call or the help even exist? So how is that different from wanting to increase awareness of inhumane treatment; and the (possible) call from animals who want to understand what they are because they have become aware of suffering?

If you have looked at a feed lot, have you not seen into the eyes of a cow? Into the eyes of a calf who is kept in a tight little pen so it gets no exercise, so the meat is tender when its short life is ended for veal? My guess is that the entities of 2D need to call out in this way to reach 3D.

Perhaps the call of the animals to make us aware of their suffering is to help humans evolve, as in the case of whales beaching themselves or dolphins getting caught in fishing nets. Are they helping us realize that we are responsible for polluting the oceans, and spiritually speaking, this is not the way to live in harmony with all things?

[Monica]

... But you said nobody was asking anybody to do anything. That's what you said.

That's right. I have never, ever asked any particular person to do anything.

[Diana]

There is an over-reaching principle at play here and that is self-righteousness. On one level there appears to be a noble cause, yet on another level a stubborn unwillingness to admit when the tactics involved in promoting said cause are ineffective.

I see this as a process of illumination. Thankfully this group is willing to discuss it. I don't think we are all self-righteous. And if some of that slips in, so what? The discussion is still alive--it has life; it goes out into the sum of all; it adds to the light--including our own light in recognizing our self-righteousness.

[Monica]

I see this as a process of illumination. Thankfully this group is willing to discuss it. I don't think we are all self-righteous. And if some of that slips in, so what? The discussion is still alive--it has life; it goes out into the sum of all; it adds to the light.

Exactly. And, whenever Person A has strong convictions about something that they choose not to do, Person B who does do that thing often tends to think Person A is 'self-righteous' no matter what Person A does or says.

Like when John thinks Julie is 'self-righteous' when she asks the waiter for a vegetarian entree, even though Julie said nothing about John's choice of steak. Happens all the time.

Then, if John asks Julie why she's a vegetarian and she gives an honest answer, he accuses her of being 'holier than thou' and 'proselytizing.'

I contend that if people were really comfortable with their choice to eat animals, they wouldn't get so hot and bothered when vegetarians voice their opinions. They would just smile and say, "Oh that's nice. Go for it! Meanwhile I enjoy my steak."

[AnthroHeart]

It seems that people are so dear to their beliefs, like in this video.
How easily can one change them, particularly with diet?

[3DMonkey]

Ra is helping us by answering a call to reveal to us what we are.

Okay, semantics. In revealing to us what we are, Ra is increasing awareness, which initiates evolution or change--else why would the call or the help even exist? So how is that different from wanting to increase awareness of inhumane treatment; and the (possible) call from animals who want to understand what they are because they have become aware of suffering?

If you have looked at a feed lot, have you not seen into the eyes of a cow? Into the eyes of a calf who is kept in a tight little pen so it gets no exercise, so the meat is tender when its short life is ended for veal? My guess is that the entities of 2D need to call out in this way to reach 3D.

Perhaps the call of the animals to make us aware of their suffering is to help humans evolve, as in the case of whales beaching themselves or dolphins getting caught in fishing nets. Are they helping us realize that we are responsible for polluting the oceans, and spiritually speaking, this is not the way to live in harmony with all things?

I was speaking off topic. You said you wished for no suffering. Without suffering, we don't have 3D. Sorry, it was just an observation of literalism.

[BrownEye]

If you have looked at a feed lot, have you not seen into the eyes of a cow? Into the eyes of a calf who is kept in a tight little pen so it gets no exercise, so the meat is tender when its short life is ended for veal? My guess is that the entities of 2D need to call out in this way to reach 3D.

I am sure I have said this somewhere already. At the zoo I suddenly became the eagle I was looking at. Clipped wings, standing there looking around, no real experience of what I was created for. I was a slave.

That was an intense moment of empathy for me, and the strangest thing. Looking back it was more like the mind of the bird had shifted into my head. I was still where I was, but my perceptions were coming from where the eagle was standing.

What I got from that is that we took something that is designed to "exist" in a certain fashion, and "trapped" the form handicapping its ability to exist.

Also, while it did not have the depth of a human mind, it definitely had something of an "I AM". And normally we tend to put prisoners in that type of position.

Seems I have cycled through a lot of different psychic modes of awareness, one after another. Don't know if I am just being shown what is possible or if it is just from phases of the sun.

[Diana]

I am sure I have said this somewhere already. At the zoo I suddenly became the eagle I was looking at. Clipped wings, standing there looking around, no real experience of what I was created for. I was a slave.

That was an intense moment of empathy for me, and the strangest thing. Looking back it was more like the mind of the bird had shifted into my head. I was still where I was, but my perceptions were coming from where the eagle was standing.

What I got from that is that we took something that is designed to "exist" in a certain fashion, and "trapped" the form handicapping its ability to exist.

Also, while it did not have the depth of a human mind, it definitely had something of an "I AM". And normally we tend to put prisoners in that type of position.

I have had similar experiences, and once very strongly with a caged bird. Your assessment makes sense to me.

[Monica]

I have had similar experiences, and once very strongly with a caged bird. Your assessment makes sense to me.

Me too. Most poignantly, with the dolphins - as intelligent or more intelligent than humans, confined to a small swimming pool. Can you imagine being stuck in a room, with white walls, no furniture or anything interesting to do at all, with 10 other people, and all you can do is walk around in circles, day in and day out, for the rest of your life? And unable to ever see your family again, and must perform tricks each day to get fed? And, the slavemaster is a chimp?

The animals in zoos and water parks are slaves. The animals in factory farms are in concentration camps, headed for the gas chamber.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Stopping the inhumane meat industry IS that easy.

Is that so? Then why hasn't it been done yet?

Need you ask? Even the group here is conflicted. It seems we can't even agree that to buy the inhumanely raised meat is to contribute to its perpetuation.

The question was framed to draw attention to the fact that it isn't easy. Otherwise, it would be done.

Then you did misunderstand the statement. When I say "it's that easy," I mean it's as easy as not buying inhumane meat. Making that choice IS easy. I don't take it upon myself to convince people otherwise. My stance in this debate is about the fact that purchasing inhumane meat contributes to its continued abuse of animals. That is something that can be solved with logic and economics. Convincing people to do it isn't easy and isn't necessarily appropriate.

But discussion is necessitated when it is denied that spending money on a product supports the producers of that product.

[Monica]

The question was framed to draw attention to the fact that it isn't easy. Otherwise, it would be done.

Presupposing people cared enough to do it. But they don't. So they don't do it, no matter how easy it is.

Sadly, I think many people are quite aware of the process. They don't care. They eat at McDonald's because it "tastes good", is "cheap and convenient", and above all because it is "American".

I hear an echo! Exactly. They don't care. Or, they're in denial. Or they're drugged. So many people drinking fluoridated water and taking a dozen pills of powerful drugs every day...surely that is affecting their thinking.

Frankly, I tend to be more concerned for the plight of these humans, rather than the cows which they consume.

To me, it's not an either-or. There is no 'rather than' but both. I am concerned about both.

But even then- there is a place being prepared for our unconscious brethren to inhabit while the rest of us get on with our lives.
...
Not everybody was meant to awaken in these times.

True. It is those who might still awaken, with a bit of a nudge, that can benefit. Many of us were nudged, and we're passing on that nudge. Not a hit with a 2x4. But a nudge. Nothing wrong with a nudge.

[BrownEye]

purchasing inhumane meat contributes to its continued abuse of animals.

:idea:

[3DMonkey]

I am sure I have said this somewhere already. At the zoo I suddenly became the eagle I was looking at. Clipped wings, standing there looking around, no real experience of what I was created for. I was a slave.

That was an intense moment of empathy for me, and the strangest thing. Looking back it was more like the mind of the bird had shifted into my head. I was still where I was, but my perceptions were coming from where the eagle was standing.

What I got from that is that we took something that is designed to "exist" in a certain fashion, and "trapped" the form handicapping its ability to exist.

Also, while it did not have the depth of a human mind, it definitely had something of an "I AM". And normally we tend to put prisoners in that type of position.

I have had similar experiences, and once very strongly with a caged bird. Your assessment makes sense to me.

Do you understand that others don't feel that way? I'm sure you do, but what say you of those people?

[Tenet Nosce]

Exactly. And, whenever Person A has strong convictions about something that they choose not to do, Person B who does do that thing often tends to think Person A is 'self-righteous' no matter what Person A does or says.

NOTE: Not saying -you- personally do this, just speaking in general terms.

I added that after the fact, so you might have missed it.

Like when John thinks Julie is 'self-righteous' when she asks the waiter for a vegetarian entree, even though Julie said nothing about John's choice of steak. Happens all the time.

True. As it also does happen that John and Julie are in Morton's Steakhouse, and Julie feels that, not only should Morton's be legally obligated to cater to her worldview, but that promulgating her vegan political platform in the middle of the restaurant actually cultivates "social awareness".

Then, if John asks Julie why she's a vegetarian and she gives an honest answer, he accuses her of being 'holier than thou' and 'proselytizing.'

Then John is an ass, and Julie would do well stop going on dinner dates with him. I will defer back to missed post #1180 for further details.

Then again, if Julie believes that she is spiritually superior to John by virtue of her meatless diet, then she is proselytizing.

If Julie shares that the reasons she is a vegetarian include increased sustainability of the planet, better health, and a reduction in violent behaviors, then she would be speaking truthfully, and from the heart.

In which case, John no doubt would feel like an idiot sitting there with his steak. Or not. In which case, I will defer again back to post #1180.

I contend that if people were really comfortable with their choice to eat animals, they wouldn't get so hot and bothered when vegetarians voice their opinions.

That should go without saying. Yet it apparently needs to be said again and again.

Hey! Maybe the mods could get together and write a one-page disclaimer that gets automatically parsed at the beginning of every post. That will make it easier for others to remember the context of the forum, and to cut down on asschapping and butthurt.

They would just smile and say, "Oh that's nice. Go for it! Meanwhile I enjoy my steak."

The chicken soup was delicious!

---

Then you did misunderstand the statement. When I say "it's that easy," I mean it's as easy as not buying inhumane meat. Making that choice IS easy.

Ah, yes. Then I concur.

[BrownEye]

Do you understand that others don't feel that way? I'm sure you do, but what say you of those people?

Shhhhh, not too loud, you might wake them.......

[Tenet Nosce]

Presupposing people cared enough to do it. But they don't. So they don't do it, no matter how easy it is.

Why? Why do they do this? I think the answer is "love".

My mommy loves me, and she feeds me McDonald's. I love my kids and I feed them McDonald's. McDonald's is an American expression of "love".

Why... if we had to admit that McDonald's is poison, then we would have to admit that our own mommy poisoned us. And that we have been poisoning our children. **GASP** No. No. That couldn't be so.

Beyond this, the First Distortion of "You Create Your Own Reality" says that if you believe McDonald's is healthy "food" for you and your loved ones, then by the magic of intention, that "food" actually ceases being poison, and actually becomes good for you!

See? All you need is .

I hear an echo! Exactly. They don't care. Or, they're in denial. Or they're drugged. So many people drinking fluoridated water and taking a dozen pills of powerful drugs every day...surely that is affecting their thinking.

Hmm. So are you saying that a more pressing issue might be at play?

Frankly, I tend to be more concerned for the plight of these humans, rather than the cows which they consume.

To me, it's not an either-or. There is no 'rather than' but both. I am concerned about both.

Neither did I intend to frame the above statement in either/or terms. I care more about the plight of the humans than I care about the cows. And I care more about the plight of the cows than I care about the sardines. And I care more about the plight of the sardines than I care about the algae. And so on.

True. It is those who might still awaken, with a bit of a nudge, that can benefit. Many of us were nudged, and we're passing on that nudge. Not a hit with a 2x4. But a nudge. Nothing wrong with a nudge.

Nothing wrong with it. And this is another "sticky" issue (hardy-har-har)... but if the people of the world are indeed being sifted onto different timelines... at some point there must be a shift in focus away from reaching out toward these others who are destined for a different path. We have to let them go, eventually.

[Monica]

NOTE: Not saying -you- personally do this, just speaking in general terms.

I added that after the fact, so you might have missed it.

I did miss it, so thank you! I already knew that because you had told me before, but I appreciate your thoughtfulness in reiterating it!

Like when John thinks Julie is 'self-righteous' when she asks the waiter for a vegetarian entree, even though Julie said nothing about John's choice of steak. Happens all the time.

True. As it also does happen that John and Julie are in Morton's Steakhouse, and Julie feels that, not only should Morton's be legally obligated to cater to her worldview, but that promulgating her vegan political platform in the middle of the restaurant actually cultivates "social awareness".

That's true too. And we are in agreement that that approach doesn't work. It just gets people annoyed and angry.

Then, if John asks Julie why she's a vegetarian and she gives an honest answer, he accuses her of being 'holier than thou' and 'proselytizing.'

Then John is an a$$, and Julie would do well stop going on dinner dates with him. I will defer back to missed post #1180 for further details.

Oh but what if John is her boss? or a co-worker? or a brother? What if Julie is out with 5 other people from work, and they all start ganging up on her, telling her she should 'go mow the lawn like the cows' and she's a 'crazy treehugger' and 'their dogs eat better than she does' and don't let up, continuing to pick on her the entire half hour?

This has happened to me several times. Once, I was at work and some co-workers came back from a bbq place and asked me if I wanted some ribs. They knew full well I was a vegetarian, but still, they pointed to a doggie bag, so I thought maybe it was going to get thrown away anyway. So I said, "well I don't eat meat but thanks anyway. I can take it home to my dogs if it's going to get thrown away."

They then dug into me for a half hour. It was horrid.

Then again, if Julie believes that she is spiritually superior to John by virtue of her meatless diet, then she is proselytizing.

I agree. Many people think they are spiritually superior for being a Christian, for being vegan, or whatever. The whole idea of being spiritually superior is contrary to Law of One principles.

If Julie shares that the reasons she is a vegetarian include increased sustainability of the planet, better health, and a reduction in violent behaviors, then she would be speaking truthfully, and from the heart.

That's what most of us do. But the fanatical fringe who go around blasting everyone in the face, give us a bad rep.

In which case, John no doubt would feel like an idiot sitting there with his steak. Or not. In which case, I will defer again back to post #1180.

Unfortunately, though, even when we do speak from the heart, the Johns often get defensive and start ridiculing us anyway.

I contend that if people were really comfortable with their choice to eat animals, they wouldn't get so hot and bothered when vegetarians voice their opinions.

That should go without saying. Yet it apparently needs to be said again and again.

Hey! Maybe the mods could get together and write a one-page disclaimer that gets automatically parsed at the beginning of every post. That will make it easier for others to remember the context of the forum, and to cut down on asschapping and butthurt.

After awhile, they'd probably just ignore it, like some ignore the guidelines.

They would just smile and say, "Oh that's nice. Go for it! Meanwhile I enjoy my steak."

The chicken soup was delicious!

Right! I have a niece whose husband is a hunter, and she often posts stuff on facebook about how 'delicious' the moose was, etc. This girl is one of the sweetest people. She does a lot of volunteer work, and is the epitome of what a 'Christian' should be, in my opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that her religious beliefs are that animals were 'given by God for man to use' so I know the paradigm she is living by. But you know what? She is doing so much good in the world, that I would never dream of saying a word to her about her husband's choice of how to feed his family. It just wouldn't serve any purpose.

Meanwhile, I sometimes post my vegetarian info on FB, and it's there for her to read, if she chooses to.

We coexist.

But I'm not going to refrain from posting my views, for fear of offending her. I really don't think she feels offended. She is secure in her world. And we have a lot of love and appreciation between us. I often tell her how much I admire the work she does.

[BrownEye]

My mommy loves me, and she feeds me McDonald's. I love my kids and I feed them McDonald's. McDonald's is an American expression of "love".

Why... if we had to admit that McDonald's is poison, then we would have to admit that our own mommy poisoned us. And that we have been poisoning our children. **GASP** No. No. That couldn't be so.

“To me, the ‘E’ in E. coli stands for ‘evil’,” says Nancy Donley. In 1993 in Chicago, her 6-year-old son, Alex, was so ravaged by O157:H7 poisoning from contaminated hamburger meat that when he died, only his corneas were fit for organ donation. The Bug That Ate The Burger

[Diana]

My mommy loves me, and she feeds me McDonald's. I love my kids and I feed them McDonald's. McDonald's is an American expression of "love".

Why... if we had to admit that McDonald's is poison, then we would have to admit that our own mommy poisoned us. And that we have been poisoning our children. **GASP** No. No. That couldn't be so.

I hear what you're saying, but . . . I understand that thought/intention has an effect, but one can't deny the physical. We have a physical 3D body.

The parent IS poisoning the child, whether intentionally or not. Witness how many obese diabetic children there are now largely due to fast food.

If a parent feeds his/her children MacDonald's or similar fast food, high-profit, unsustainable practice, nonfood, I do not mean to be offensive, but doing so disqualifies this person as an aware, accountable, responsible parent. It does not mean, however, that said parent does not love their children.