In regards to eating meat

[Plenum]

ok, let's keep the discussion to 3d then

let us take an extreme example: those of the Inuit in the far north.

as far as I know, these traditional peoples (the Eskimos) eat primarily meat.

now, how STS are their hunting activities? as far as I can see, if they want to stay in that environment (a choice, yes) they cannot reduce their meat consumption to zero; there are just not enough calories in that place. Of course, in modern times, we can fly whatever food we want in, but let us consider the hundreds of years before that.

are these guys guilty of a STS lifestyle? or are they forced by circumstance to do what they do? and even then, is there karma involved in that?

[Diana]

ok, let's keep the discussion to 3d then

let us take an extreme example: those of the Inuit in the far north.

as far as I know, these traditional peoples (the Eskimos) eat primarily meat.

now, how STS are their hunting activities? as far as I can see, if they want to stay in that environment (a choice, yes) they cannot reduce their meat consumption to zero; there are just not enough calories in that place. Of course, in modern times, we can fly whatever food we want in, but let us consider the hundreds of years before that.

are these guys guilty of a STS lifestyle? or are they forced by circumstance to do what they do? and even then, is there karma involved in that?

You answered your own question. They have the choice to move somewhere else. This is the 21st century and not out of the paradigm to bring food in, move to another climate, or use technology to invent new ways to grow food--possibly harvest algae and seaweed products. As for other time frames, there is still a choice to migrate as a tribe to easier climates. If, say, an Inuit of 3,000 years ago gazed into the eye of a dying whale (or any other creature taken for food) and began to open his/her heart to the animal's suffering and wish to live, and then contemplated the subject, he/she would eventually come up with other solutions if they were desired.

So, yes, I would characterize it as STS (unless the Unuit are 2D). And if there is such a thing as karma, or a life review, they would face their decisions and the lives they took and have to balance it or forgive themselves (if subscribing to popular theories on those subjects).

I was in a book club years ago and we read a book about female circumcision in an African tribe. My contention was that no matter how hard, no matter how far out of my paradigm, I would have left that tribe and not been a party to that practice. I know that was easy for me to say, but I still think it.

We always have choices.

[Plenum]

good answer!

yes, life in 3d is all about choices. In fact, there is little else BUT choices. And each of them adds up to a sum total of a life (the violet ray).

namaste for your words. They have force

[BrownEye]

are these guys guilty of a STS lifestyle? or are they forced by circumstance to do what they do? and even then, is there karma involved in that?

The individual that strikes out alone for something "better" is the individual that made the choice to evolve. To just remain in conditions that create a high suicide rate smacks of apathy and stagnation.

[Diana]

good answer!

yes, life in 3d is all about choices. In fact, there is little else BUT choices. And each of them adds up to a sum total of a life (the violet ray).

namaste for your words. They have force

Thank you.

It seems to me that choices move from unconscious to conscious, which is moving in the direction of consciously creating one's reality.

One can just go with what is and not consider what it is (as 2D animals do), or consider what is and decide if it is what we agree with or want. The next step would be to create what we want.

[BrownEye]

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/flame-c...generation

[Diana]

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/flame-c...generation

Thanks for the above article, Pickle. This sheds new light on "food" for the body (pun intended ).

[Plenum]

hey, anybody talk to their food before they eat it?

I swear this banana was talking to me as I ate it, saying how happy that it had fulfilled its life mission in being eaten by a human being, and not rotting and going to waste.

file under: life is getting stranger by the minute
file under: I'm projecting my thoughts

[Monica]

hey, anybody talk to their food before they eat it?

I swear this banana was talking to me as I ate it, saying how happy that it had fulfilled its life mission in being eaten by a human being, and not rotting and going to waste.

file under: life is getting stranger by the minute
file under: I'm projecting my thoughts

I can't resist asking if a piece of meat ever talks to you?

[Plenum]

I can't resist asking if a piece of meat ever talks to you?

lol Monica. I was also going to add (but didn't) that I had some tuna slices earlier ... and, no, they were rather silent.

maybe there is something to this raw food thing ...

[Monica]

lol Monica. I was also going to add (but didn't) that I had some tuna slices earlier ... and, no, they were rather silent.

maybe there is something to this raw food thing ...

[BrownEye]

I can't resist asking if a piece of meat ever talks to you?

lol Monica. I was also going to add (but didn't) that I had some tuna slices earlier ... and, no, they were rather silent.

maybe there is something to this raw food thing ...

It could have been a dolphin masquerading as a tuna. That would explain why it was tight lipped.

[Diana]

lol Monica. I was also going to add (but didn't) that I had some tuna slices earlier ... and, no, they were rather silent.

maybe there is something to this raw food thing ...

I doubt it was because it was raw food. A banana, being fruit, does want to be eaten--that is the purpose of fruit, to be eaten so the seeds spread. A fish, in the other hand, I doubt wants to be pulled out of the ocean and eaten. It serves no purpose for its species--as fruit being eaten does.

[Monica]

TWO (2) Elephants Reunited After 20 Years

[Monica]

Just look at those faces! And look at how the mama is hugging the baby! (The picture is Oceania-friendly, but maybe not the article.)

Pregnant orangutan mother and child rescued at last minute from knife-bearing bounty hunters in Borneo

[Diana]

Just look at those faces! And look at how the mama is hugging the baby! (The picture is Oceania-friendly, but maybe not the article.)

Pregnant orangutan mother and child rescued at last minute from knife-bearing bounty hunters in Borneo

It is this sort of human unconsciousness that I find so hard to deal with.

The photo of the mother orangutan and child is very telling. I do not think I am anthropomorphizing when I say that the mother is not only protecting the child, but they are clinging together in mutual love (however one wants to define that). That these two have feelings beyond that of mere survival.

In applying this scenario to the use of animals for food (meat), imagine a mother cow being first, separated from her calf who is now being caged for veal, then being separated from the herd (a form of community or family) to be killed for meat. And this speaks nothing to commercial animal farming.

I cannot think this is necessary in any way.

[Tenet Nosce]

Linking long-term dietary patterns with gut microbial enterotypes.

Diet strongly affects human health, partly by modulating gut microbiome composition. We used diet inventories and 16S rDNA sequencing to characterize fecal samples from 98 individuals. Fecal communities clustered into enterotypes distinguished primarily by levels of Bacteroides and Prevotella. Enterotypes were strongly associated with long-term diets, particularly protein and animal fat (Bacteroides) versus carbohydrates (Prevotella). A controlled-feeding study of 10 subjects showed that microbiome composition changed detectably within 24 hours of initiating a high-fat/low-fiber or low-fat/high-fiber diet, but that enterotype identity remained stable during the 10-day study. Thus, alternative enterotype states are associated with long-term diet.

[Diana]

Linking long-term dietary patterns with gut microbial enterotypes.

Diet strongly affects human health, partly by modulating gut microbiome composition. We used diet inventories and 16S rDNA sequencing to characterize fecal samples from 98 individuals. Fecal communities clustered into enterotypes distinguished primarily by levels of Bacteroides and Prevotella. Enterotypes were strongly associated with long-term diets, particularly protein and animal fat (Bacteroides) versus carbohydrates (Prevotella). A controlled-feeding study of 10 subjects showed that microbiome composition changed detectably within 24 hours of initiating a high-fat/low-fiber or low-fat/high-fiber diet, but that enterotype identity remained stable during the 10-day study. Thus, alternative enterotype states are associated with long-term diet.

What is the point you are making here?

[Tenet Nosce]

Linking long-term dietary patterns with gut microbial enterotypes.

Diet strongly affects human health, partly by modulating gut microbiome composition. We used diet inventories and 16S rDNA sequencing to characterize fecal samples from 98 individuals. Fecal communities clustered into enterotypes distinguished primarily by levels of Bacteroides and Prevotella. Enterotypes were strongly associated with long-term diets, particularly protein and animal fat (Bacteroides) versus carbohydrates (Prevotella). A controlled-feeding study of 10 subjects showed that microbiome composition changed detectably within 24 hours of initiating a high-fat/low-fiber or low-fat/high-fiber diet, but that enterotype identity remained stable during the 10-day study. Thus, alternative enterotype states are associated with long-term diet.

What is the point you are making here?

Somewhere earlier in the thread I was talking about gut enterotypes- there are three distinct groupings of gut bacteria that are associated with the human body. I had speculated that at least one of the types would turn out to be associated with an animal-based diet which would explain why some people report that they feel much better when incorporating meat into their diet. This research confirms my previous speculations.

In order words- this new research supports the idea that some people's bodies require animal foods to function properly, and calls into question the notion that vegetarianism is right for everybody. Which relates back to my original point on this thread which expressed concern for nutritional zealots and other health "gurus" who promote that vegetarianism/veganism can only be beneficial to one's health.

[Monica]

In order words- this new research supports the idea that some people's bodies require animal foods to function properly, and calls into question the notion that vegetarianism is right for everybody.

The issue I have with research such as this, is that it doesn't take into consideration that we're evolving very rapidly at this nexus; thus, bodies can change.

But in the meantime, Vegetarian just means no meat. Eggs and dairy are animal foods too, and could satisfy this need.

[Plenum]

In order words- this new research supports the idea that some people's bodies require animal foods to function properly, and calls into question the notion that vegetarianism is right for everybody. Which relates back to my original point on this thread which expressed concern for nutritional zealots and other health "gurus" who promote that vegetarianism/veganism can only be beneficial to one's health.

I am probably one of these people. I have tried vegetarianism/veganism/raw food diet on many occasions, sometimes following programs, sometimes following instinct, and yet I always return to an omnivore state.

it's not that my intent or will is lacking, but the body is weak!

[Monica]

it's not that my intent or will is lacking, but the body is weak!

Don't be too hard on yourself! It's a transition and isn't always easy.

If your intent is to go veg, you might check out the writings and lectures of Dr. Gabriel Cousens. He recognizes that it isn't easy for some people, and offers suggestions for those who have difficulty transitioning to vegetarian. He claims 100% success rate, for those who want to be vegetarian but were having trouble, and followed his suggestions.

[Diana]

Somewhere earlier in the thread I was talking about gut enterotypes- there are three distinct groupings of gut bacteria that are associated with the human body. I had speculated that at least one of the types would turn out to be associated with an animal-based diet which would explain why some people report that they feel much better when incorporating meat into their diet. This research confirms my previous speculations.

In order words- this new research supports the idea that some people's bodies require animal foods to function properly, and calls into question the notion that vegetarianism is right for everybody. Which relates back to my original point on this thread which expressed concern for nutritional zealots and other health "gurus" who promote that vegetarianism/veganism can only be beneficial to one's health.

Thanks TN, I remember now.

I agree with Monica's comments on this, and will add my own.

Each individual must follow his/her own prompts, body messages, and intuitions. This is a free will zone. I don't resonate with zealotry or gurus, but I am rather passionate about evolving. I do think that part of the evolution of humankind is to shift to kinder ways of existence.

Carla mentioned on the radio show, and this makes sense to me, that we are already in 4D light (this would explain why so many around us are facing issues and are extremely uncomfortable). Perhaps this is an opportunity to evolve the body into not needing animal flesh, in the various ways that the need manifests in the body. The body can change, all cells can change and mutate, and the subconscious can direct change.

[BrownEye]

"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars."

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the waythrough."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!"

"So... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"So what does the meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual."

"We're supposed to talk to meat?"

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we can mark this sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone."


-----------------------

by Terry Bisson

[Diana]

Above comedy from Pickle . . .

Related thread (Artificial Meat is Coming): http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4316

[Unbound]

LOLOLOLOL 'mazing

[Monica]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/01...=FullStory

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Animal welfare groups reacted with outrage Wednesday after the Iowa Legislature made the state the first to approve a bill making it a crime to surreptitiously get into a farming operation to record video of animal abuse.

The groups have urged Gov. Terry Branstad to veto the measure that was overwhelmingly approved Tuesday by the Iowa House and Senate, arguing that the measure would prevent people from publicizing animal abuse.

"The intent behind the legislation is to put a chilling effect on whistleblowers on factory farms," said Matthew Dominguez, a spokesman for the Humane Society of the United States. "It begs the question of, what exactly does animal agriculture have to hide?"

Legislatures in seven states — Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New York and Utah— have considered laws that would enhance penalties against those who secretly record video of livestock, though the efforts have stalled in some states.

This last part really gets me:

Iowa grain and hog farmer John Weber said he realizes people want to be sure animals are treated humanely but said it's easy for groups to get video of livestock that when paired with dramatic music can give an improper impression.

...as if music would make the gory, obscenely graphic details of animal torture and slaughter any more 'dramatic' than it already is...as if it were possible to give a 'false impression' of something that is REAL and actually happening.

[BrownEye]

Weird how they have been cracking down on whistleblowing from all angles. Now the farming industry.

[BrownEye]

Monkeysphere

This may explain the perceived lack of compassion for some.

[BrownEye]

This had me laughing.



http://www.stuartwilde.com/2009/12/ayahuasca-visions/

Fat people are dangerous. Gluttony comes from self-hate and/or hatred for people and animals. The obese ones have thousands of parts of animal carcasses inside them; watching that always freaks me out. Their bellies are graveyards of the bones of dead animals. The pile of bones is taller than they are in the Aluna.

I saw one woman who had 20,000+ animal parts inside her. The pile in the Aluna was 15–20 feet high and 40–50 feet across. It was like a small hill of bones glued together with agony.